Official Exhibition Thread, SLU-HSSU, 11-5-08

[STL Hoops Insider]

Overall, sounds like a wonderful opening night, with the usual minor and expected reservations. What I like most of all is that five or six guys scored in double digits and all of you seem to have mostly glowing comments on the BilliKids. Seems like each one of them has some sort of upside and one poster even said none of them are "role" players. That's sounds like a recruiting class done by a guy who might know a little about evaluating talent.

Sadly, I am old enough to remember and have been there for the "real" Andre Craig. He was another (7-footer) who never seemed to consistently deliver on what seemed like great potential. With him and Al-Mateen, we had two seven-footers on the roster. I still remember screaming "Twin Towers" at Grawer when we were playing Larry Brown's Kansas team at the old Kiel. Never playedb oth at the same time. I'd loved to know if this Andre is the son of that Andre. Kind of a nice flow in the program.

The numbers from Reed totally surprised me, but it was NAIA. Sure, he will get pushed around by the meatier bigs in Divison 1 but again, I don't think "meatier bigs" describes the overall level of frontline player in the A10. A guy built like GeeDub's Diggs seems more the norm than tons of guys built like a Dunston or a Freeman. I think he'll be fine. I like to think that speed, quickness and anticipation might help him overcome whatever weight issues he might fall short on. Again, we will see. I like also what the initial returns have to say on the court savvy of guys like Cassity, Conklin and Mitchell. I like the term savvy and talks about intense defense. They will need it.

Timmerman had attendance at about 6500 with what he called 125 or so students. I think if nothing esle, a buzz has been set. Six players in double figures, with five being freshmen and a 40 point win (okay, NAIA) with arguably your best player putting in two minutes. I can see why in my conversations with Kevin, he always expressed how excited he was and he always mentioned "the freshmen." The Phoenix rises. Again, RM seems to know what he's doing. In Rick I trust.

Reed's decisiveness down low was impressive and he kept the ball high. I think the team needs to work on feeding the post too. When Harris-Stowe was fronting, there was enough room to fit the pass in if the bigs shielded them off correctly and the post feeder could find the right angle. This was an issue in the first half. Much better in the 2nd half. Kwamain had eyes in the back of his head on one play where he cut down the middle and did a quick behind the back pass that Reed wasnt ready for. That would've brought the house down. Good court vision. Kwamain made some plays. I'd like to see him look for his shot a little more. This team is going to need to play uptempo. One positive about Conklin is that I think he will draw lot of fouls and I think he will convert his FT's. His touch looked good from the line.

[Guest BillikenReport]

Can we wait until the 2010 class to land a deadeye shooter with size?

They've tried to get a couple of them, but lost out to Indiana, North Carolina State and Michigan.

Maybe Salecich is that guy.

[cheeseman]

It was hard to estimate the attendance. I will need a few games and to see the official announced attendance to really be able to figure it out. The layout of the band seemed a bit spread out - I am not sure they will be able to take up that much space if they intend to get 1K students in those bleachers. I would guess more than 125 students but less than 700.

1. I am sorry that STL Hoops was unimpressed with most of our new players. I guess the season is over - no use in going. Seriously, STL Hoops - you have a strange way of watching a game - I thought for freshmen in their first game in front of people once they got over the nerves early on they played pretty well. Lots of flashes of skill.

2. The foul on KL - can happen during a game and I really could not see it very well from where I sit but the picture in the Post sure made the kid from HS look like he made a cheap shot. The game also from HS side got very ugly at the end and I am glad nobody got hurt during that stretch.

3. STL - given that we only have 3 seniors and one sophomore, with the rest all being freshmen it does not take a genius to figure out that we probably will start 5 sophomores next year - hope you did not hurt your head thinking that one through.

4. I thought the freshmen have lots to offer and truly look forward to watching them grow this year. I really can not add anything new about them that others have not said. Just remember, they are freshmen and we will see brilliant play by them one time and then bonehead plays the next time.

5. The bench has not moved - I made it a point to find out where the bench was when I picked my seats so I could be able to be across from it.

6. PE - not sure if his injury is still limiting him or not but if RM's goal is to make him a 7th or 8th player off the bench, then I think may have already accomplished that. Next year's class will only push him lower. I may be speaking to soon so I will wait for a few more games before I firm up that opinion in my own mind.

7. The arena is a great place to watch BB and will really be rockin when we get 8K in there.

[STL Hoops Insider]

I was impressed by most of them, the one's that stood out were Cassity and Reed. Everyone else was what I expected. None of them played bad. I just thought Conklin could've been more of a force. Strong body, good build, good touch. I think he needs to go ahead and go up when he gets the ball instead of dipping his shoulder and hooking with his elbow. I think those will be fouls against other opponents. I think Thompson will get better with his mobility as things progress. Cotto can definitely shoot and keep you on your heels. Kwamain understands point guard position and reads the defense. He could look for his shot more. Femi passed up some opportunities, but it could've been nerves and he did make a nice runner inside late in the game. None of this was a surprise to me. I was disappointed in the interior defense. And for Roy, Harris-Stowe does have 4 JUCO transfers that should be eligible in December, including Demario Smith, the former Riverwar Slam Dunk champ, Uros Vukovich, a 6'7 foreign player with a solid outside shot who started a lot of games last year as a transfer, Ahmadou Fall, a double-double machine last year, and a JUCO transfer from Ohio that is a 6'5 athlete. They were shorthanded in this contest and will be for maybe the first 8-10 games of the season, but on Dec 12th they will have at least 8 guys on their team 6'5 or bigger that have talent. They would not lose to Edwardsville or any high school team in the area. They will at least duplicate last year's finish in the top half of their conference and host a playoff game in the conference tournament.

[jjray]

In case you didn't see it, here are still pics from STLToday from the HS game--

http://stltoday.mycapture.com/mycapture/en...ategoryID=38802

The first three are of the hard foul on Lisch and the bad landing on his back. Ouch! Couldn't make it to the game but sounds like Reed has gained some strength up top over where he was last year. Very good news. Hope he learns on the job quickly as his game needs a ton of work.

[Cowboy]

-prez -good to have you back

-Teresa told me it is Kevin's tailbone, may have to stand in class for a while but will be ok

-i have posted several times about the sound system, but it seemed to work well last night, good job

-for all you guy phillips haters, i understand a bit more now, guy, let's understand how to pronounce the kids names before the season starts next year

-i sensed a totally different vibe in this bldg, being half full, than even at the Arena when sold out under Spoon, this is going to be great fun

-every one of these frosh has the ability to do a couple of things, each of them have skills, each of them have things on which to work, but i think it will be real interesting to watch this team develop, they may not be good this year, they will be better next year, and when they are jr's, we should be a very good team (assuming all stay healthy, at slu and progress like rick will want them)

-to quote John McCain - "my friends, good days are ahead" - oh ######, he lost

[OC]

My only beef with Conklin was that he went up with his inside hand twice when the situation clearly called for his left--and the reason that surprised me was because he was otherwise very fundamentally solid looking.

Almost all of these guys have some 1on1 game to speak of. And some bball IQ.

Unlike the last couple editions, I think this Bills team will be fun to watch even in losses. I'm excited to watch them grow within the program.

[jimbofive]

-Teresa told me it is Kevin's tailbone, may have to stand in class for a while but will be ok

I'll bet Theresa knows tailbone injuries well; she must have taken quite a bump on the ol' tuchus* when she fell from Heaven.

*Proper Yiddish spelling for BOOTY. Who knew?

[Box and Won]

-for all you guy phillips haters, i understand a bit more now, guy, let's understand how to pronounce the kids names before the season starts next year

I was filled with a little bit of hope that we would have made an upgrade, and then I heard Guy's voice. Disappointing.

[Box and Won]

BTW, STLHoops - why does the b-ball team wear black unis? I thought their colors were brown and gold.

[JMM28]

So how about next year we use UMSL as our exhibition game and get rid of playing Harris-Stowe. Someone that can be competitive.

[cheeseman]

Two questions:

1. Why is Majerus entertaining the idea of redshirting Reed?

2. This layup line stuff isn't going to be available against a decent D-1 opponent. Can we wait until the 2010 class to land a deadeye shooter with size?

RM said he would like to red shirt Reed so he can put some weight on but he also said he was not going to do it since they need floor players.

[STL Hoops Insider]

BTW, STLHoops - why does the b-ball team wear black unis? I thought their colors were brown and gold.

Those were new uniforms that I hadn't seen yet. I guess black unis are in style. I think the letters on the jersey's were gold with brown trim. A few of the other teams have tried to use black in the place of brown as well. They usually incorporate the brown in some way. I thought they were pretty nice uni's though. I'm excited about this team. The schedule is a little lighter this year to accomodate all the freshman. If they can play the defense they played most of the first half, they will beat a lot of teams. In conference McKendree will beat them twice as they did last year. Except for Illinois-Springfield and Columbia they beat everybody else in the conference at least once last year once and they were up 24 on Illinois-Springfield in one game and up 15 at the half at Columbia. I think they can at least split with each this year. I think they'll win 14-18 games this year and then with my sophomores starting the next season 20+. And yeah, I'm talking about Harris-Stowe a lot because this will be my only chance to talk about them this year and maybe the most publicity they will get all year. Really good freshman class. 6 guys that will change the program.

[STL Hoops Insider]

So how about next year we use UMSL as our exhibition game and get rid of playing Harris-Stowe. Someone that can be competitive.

UMSL shouldnt be competitive either. That team 2009-2010 should be primed to win 18-20 games. Central Missouri State would probably be a better matchup. They're usually pretty good. They'll have guys like Moosman, and Watts as seniors too and that'd be a nice story line, the former Co-All-Metro players of the year from 2006 coming back home to the area as seniors.

[Box and Won]

^

I thought they showed some good hustle and looked like they had some athletes. #32 was going off, although he missed quite a few shots as well. Boykin seemed like a good player.

I was also impressed that they have kids from all over - from the St. Louis area and beyond - NYC, Chicago, California. I think I remember seeing that one of their players is from Senegal.

[STL Hoops Insider]

^

I thought they showed some good hustle and looked like they had some athletes. #32 was going off, although he missed quite a few shots as well. Boykin seemed like a good player.

I was also impressed that they have kids from all over - from the St. Louis area and beyond - NYC, Chicago, California. I think I remember seeing that one of their players is from Senegal.

Yeah, the kid from Senegal is a JUCO transfer 6'6 220lbs from Forest Park that had a lot of double-doubles last year and was being recruited by a lot of schools, and he even played in our showcase in April. He blew out his knee shortly afterwards and everybody dropped off. He signed with Harris-Stowe because they were willing to let him rehab while on scholarship and he had roots there from his cousin being a former soccer All-American at Harris-Stowe. I honestly think their defense in the 1st half was very good and it just came down to the fact that if SLU got the ball down low consistently they were gonna score because of the size difference. 2nd half was complete domination, 41-15. Too tired and too small to put up much of a fight. They werent supposed to though. If they're gonna play an NAIA team McKendree would be an intriguing matchup. They're always good and I think they would compete the whole game. They are absolutely loaded this year top to bottom. They return 4 starters, only one a senior and they brought in another great class. They might go undefeated in the regular season.

[kwyjibo]

Sadly, I am old enough to remember and have been there for the "real" Andre Craig. He was another (7-footer) who never seemed to consistently deliver on what seemed like great potential. With him and Al-Mateen, we had two seven-footers on the roster. I still remember screaming "Twin Towers" at Grawer when we were playing Larry Brown's Kansas team at the old Kiel. Never playedb oth at the same time. I'd loved to know if this Andre is the son of that Andre. Kind of a nice flow in the program.

I love that there is "another" Andre Craig around (related or not). I lived next to Andre for a semester and he should always be remembered for his stellar defensive work against All-American Keith Lee. Sure, Andre was not the most consistent player but as a naturally laid back guy you had to know how to motivate him (I think Keith pissed him off early).

I don't have the same recollection of the Kansas (John Calipari was part of Larry Brown's staff) game. I cannot remember which one played, Andre or Abdur Rahiim, against Kansas but I don't think those guys were on the same team together. Abdur-Rahiim I recall replaced Andre Craig (and only had one year of eligibility cause he was older than Granville Waiters). Andre was a real center but I don't think he got to 7'.

[tenthyearsenior]

omg! rickma has hit the frickin jackpot. that has to be the deepest quality freshmen class in history of slu. they are ALL potential players. not a miss in the group if you ask me.

cassity, mitchell and cotto are nails.

reed is the surprise of the class.

conklin and thompson are extremely solid.

my sources say kevin fell on his tailbone and was going to have x-rays. be fearful.

my sources say eberhardt broke a team rule but would only sit tonite.

wow. this is exciting. i am beyond speechless it was that good.

btw, arena is spectacular. i can only imagine how loud that place will get full.

The world is coming to an end. We have a black president and I agree with Roy 100%.

[jimbofive]

The world is coming to an end. We have a black president and I agree with Roy 100%.

Assuming that you already knew that KL was going to be OK, it's just plain illogical to agree with Roy 100%. At best, you should have only agreed with him 94.12%; there's no need to be fearful now that x-rays have come back negative. Just saying.

[Major Majerus]

My 2 cents:

I saw Cassity in the all-star game and thought he might require a redshirt, comparing his game to Cotto and Femi. NOT - his game doesn't show well in an all-star environment, but what a star within a team concept!

Kwamain - my first look; as advertised.

Conklin - I saw Shaw in some Eagles' games and his official visit scrimmage at SLU, and, of course many times vs. SLU and on TV the past several years. I think Conklin is right there with him. Strong, decisive moves, and passes out well when the move doesn't pan out. I also like the Luke Meyer comparison, but he has more body.

Reed - 1st time to see him - wow! If the Haley twins could play D1 ball, so can he, even with his spare frame. You can't call him weak - he's wiry. Routinely is above the rim, and goes back up - someone said like a pogo stick. Even tho he missed his sr. year, he's gaining experience quickly. Way more than I expected, but how could we know?

Brett - he wants the ball and often does something good with it. No disappointment there.

Femi - How many guards do we need? If we have a redshirt, I think he's the most likely...as long as TL and KL are healthy. However, why do it with the the way recruiting is shaping up?

Cotto - what I expected - best pure 3 pt shooter on the team when he gets the second to get his shot off.

Best SLU recruiting class I've ever seen; IMO better than Grawer's big class and the Larry Hughes class.

RM has done well, and these kids are buying in. 9th in the A-10? Bah! Humbug!

TL has been freed up to rebound as he sees fit; he has a real nose for the ball and I expect that to raise his level overall. I have no problem with the way he was dishing out the ball last night - it showed leadership rather than taking the opportunity to put up a big scoring number that meant nothing.

[STL Hoops Insider]

My 2 cents:

I saw Cassity in the all-star game and thought he might require a redshirt, comparing his game to Cotto and Femi. NOT - his game doesn't show well in an all-star environment, but what a star within a team concept!

Kwamain - my first look; as advertised.

Conklin - I saw Shaw in some Eagles' games and his official visit scrimmage at SLU, and, of course many times vs. SLU and on TV the past several years. I think Conklin is right there with him. Strong, decisive moves, and passes out well when the move doesn't pan out. I also like the Luke Meyer comparison, but he has more body.

Reed - 1st time to see him - wow! If the Haley twins could play D1 ball, so can he, even with his spare frame. You can't call him weak - he's wiry. Routinely is above the rim, and goes back up - someone said like a pogo stick. Even tho he missed his sr. year, he's gaining experience quickly. Way more than I expected, but how could we know?

Brett - he wants the ball and often does something good with it. No disappointment there.

Femi - How many guards do we need? If we have a redshirt, I think he's the most likely...as long as TL and KL are healthy. However, why do it with the the way recruiting is shaping up?

Cotto - what I expected - best pure 3 pt shooter on the team when he gets the second to get his shot off.

Best SLU recruiting class I've ever seen; IMO better than Grawer's big class and the Larry Hughes class.

RM has done well, and these kids are buying in. 9th in the A-10? Bah! Humbug!

TL has been freed up to rebound as he sees fit; he has a real nose for the ball and I expect that to raise his level overall. I have no problem with the way he was dishing out the ball last night - it showed leadership rather than taking the opportunity to put up a big scoring number that meant nothing.

Cassity didnt play well in the All-Star because he was out of position. Shaw was more of a perimeter oriented big man than Conklin. Two different players in my opinion.

[Cowboy]

So how about next year we use UMSL as our exhibition game and get rid of playing Harris-Stowe. Someone that can be competitive.

-rick basically said last year the coach at h-s let slu practice in his gym when west pine was not available and rick does not forget someone being nice to him, so we are playing the game

-no idea if this translates to more than one year

[billiken_roy]

Shaw was more of a perimeter oriented big man than Conklin. Two different players in my opinion.

if you mean that shaw could shoot outside more than conklin, that appears to be true. however we didnt really see conklin put anything up outside the lane. personally that is ok with me i'd prefer him banging as it appears we have plenty of outside weapons.

i like what i saw from conklin, but i am not ready to say he is going to be matt shaw yet.

[slufanskip]

if you mean that shaw could shoot outside more than conklin, that appears to be true. however we didnt really see conklin put anything up outside the lane. personally that is ok with me i'd prefer him banging as it appears we have plenty of outside weapons.

i like what i saw from conklin, but i am not ready to say he is going to be matt shaw yet.

Wasn't there originally talk from Conklin about him being recruited to play the 3 when he first comitted?

[billiken_roy]

Wasn't there originally talk from Conklin about him being recruited to play the 3 when he first comitted?

from what we saw wednesday, i think he would be out of place. he is very solid playing power forward. i would think from what we saw of barry hitting a few threes last year, if anyone was going to step out to the wing between eberhardt and conklin it would be a closer fit for barry.

that said, we have way too much guard power to even think about utilizing that option imo.