Billiken Athleticism

[davidnark]

In the world of drinking Billiken Kool-Aid, we consider a guy like Kevin Lisch to be a great athlete. I just saw a guard the exact same height as Kevin go right over Eckerle to throw down an alley-oop less than a second before time expired. That, my friends, is real athleticism. I hope that someday we get to see it wearing white down at the Chaifetz.

[Majerus Magic]

In the world of drinking Billiken Kool-Aid, we consider a guy like Kevin Lisch to be a great athlete. I just saw a guard the exact same height as Kevin go right over Eckerle to throw down an alley-oop less than a second before time expired. That, my friends, is real athleticism. I hope that someday we get to see it wearing white down at the Chaifetz.

I wouldn't call Kevin Athletic. I might call TL a good athlete, but not Kevin.

[bleedbluegary]

Outside of Tommie and Danny Brown we have no athleticism. The biggest problem is that they have athletes that can play Basketball and we Don't. We don't bang with anybody. I get tired of us settling for the jumper. Our 7'1 center getting a lay up blocked "Leave your feet for christ sake." Achara leaves his feet take his knees out. He may beat you but don't let him walk off the floor.

[moytoy12]

Achara leaves his feet take his knees out. He may beat you but don't let him walk off the floor.

The voice of reason is back...thank god.

[brianstl]

The voice of reason is back...thank god.

I see the institution has let him have computer privileges again.

[bleedbluegary]

There is no reason to lose to these the Bonnie's and the Dukes.

[Iggy]

There is no reason to lose to these the Bonnie's and the Dukes.

There is a reason. We only have two players on our team and one of them is sick.

[moytoy12]

There is no reason to lose to these the Bonnie's and the Dukes.

There is if you rely on 2 players to play at their peak and those players don't play at their peak. Oh and we didn't bust any Bonnie or Duke kneecaps during those games, that made it a lot tougher to win.

[bleedbluegary]

Well that is why we got to watch the high wire act today. It seems as though we are a homecoming game when we go on the road. Until Coach gets his players in here we can expect more of the same.

[kmbilliken]

I wouldn't call Kevin Athletic. I might call TL a good athlete, but not Kevin.

Kevin is very athletic. There's a lot more to athleticism than jumping. He's strong, has quick hands, decent jumping ability, good speed and great body control. TL is very athletic too, but the only thing I see he has on KL is a quicker first step, faster hands with the ball that don't seem to come into play on defense and a longer body. You give KL TL's length and he'd probably be the best player in the conference.

[WVBilliken]

Let's get ourselves another big athletic recruit or two this Spring and look forward to next year. I was hoping for a better year this year but we just don't have the horses. Thanks Brad. SLU has several good players but there is nothing they can do when faced with a team with a bunch of athletic bigs. We can win a game or two against a good team but we do not have the talent to get on a roll during the A10 tournament.

[davidnark]

Kevin is very athletic. There's a lot more to athleticism than jumping. He's strong, has quick hands, decent jumping ability, good speed and great body control. TL is very athletic too, but the only thing I see he has on KL is a quicker first step, faster hands with the ball that don't seem to come into play on defense and a longer body. You give KL TL's length and he'd probably be the best player in the conference.

Kevin is very athletic, but there is a whole different level of athleticism that Kevin doesn't even touch. You see this level in the upper-echolons of D1 and throughout the NBA, but rarely at SLU.

[NashvilleBilliken]

Kevin is very athletic, but there is a whole different level of athleticism that Kevin doesn't even touch. You see this level in the upper-echolons of D1 and throughout the NBA, but rarely at SLU.

I couldn't agree more. However, I feel like our athleticism was enough this year to compete....what wasn't is our size. There's almost no way we can compete in this league with the size we have. I don't care how hard you try or how athletic you are. A 6'4 guard cannot play in the post. Somebody made a negative comment about Knollmeyer. I actually thought he played one of his best games yesterday (minus that awful airball) and the team was noticeably better with him in. Why? Because he's 6'9. I really wanted to see more of Adam yesterday becasue we got a lot more rebounds with him in there. Thank god we have some size coming in next year. And I hope we get another big signed before it's all said and done.

[STL Hoops Insider]

like Belmont

[moytoy12]

I couldn't agree more. However, I feel like our athleticism was enough this year to compete....what wasn't is our size. There's almost no way we can compete in this league with the size we have. I don't care how hard you try or how athletic you are. A 6'4 guard cannot play in the post. Somebody made a negative comment about Knollmeyer. I actually thought he played one of his best games yesterday (minus that awful airball) and the team was noticeably better with him in. Why? Because he's 6'9. I really wanted to see more of Adam yesterday becasue we got a lot more rebounds with him in there. Thank god we have some size coming in next year. And I hope we get another big signed before it's all said and done.

Agree with Nash. If we had 3 guys 6'9 and over with KL's athleticism, i'd be overjoyed and I think the results would have been much different this year.

While I agree it would be great if KL could throw down the alley-oop like the kid Nark mentioned, I believe that type of athleticism is overrated.

[slu72]

Agree with Nash. If we had 3 guys 6'9 and over with KL's athleticism, i'd be overjoyed and I think the results would have been much different this year.

While I agree it would be great if KL could throw down the alley-oop like the kid Nark mentioned, I believe that type of athleticism is overrated.

KL's athleticsm is not the problem. He's as athletic as Paulus(Duke), Frazor (UNC), Scheyer (duke) or any number of kids on winning teams. Our problem is we don't have enough TL's and KL's. That's not Rickma's fault. It's UB's. The cupboard was bare. Sure on one night they can do something amazing, beat St. Joe's or take X to the final second. But over the long haul of a season, uh uh ain't gonna' happen. Look at Kansas State they have Bill Walker and Beasley. Yeah, they will probably make the dance, but even those two ain't taking 'em to the final four, elite eight, or not even the sweet sixteen. You need depth. At SLU's level, you need kids that stay all 4 years and develop into a team under one of the best minds in the game.

[moytoy12]

KL's athleticsm is not the problem. He's as athletic as Paulus(Duke), Frazor (UNC), Scheyer (duke) or any number of kids on winning teams. Our problem is we don't have enough TL's and KL's. That's not Rickma's fault. It's UB's. The cupboard was bare. Sure on one night they can do something amazing, beat St. Joe's or take X to the final second. But over the long haul of a season, uh uh ain't gonna' happen. Look at Kansas State they have Bill Walker and Beasley. Yeah, they will probably make the dance, but even those two ain't taking 'em to the final four, elite eight, or not even the sweet sixteen. You need depth. At SLU's level, you need kids that stay all 4 years and develop into a team under one of the best minds in the game.

Great post '72.

[moytoy12]

fyi - watching Drake and I wouldn't call them a particularly athletic team. They have 2 walk-on starters (maybe that speaks to the quality of MVC this year?). Hell, the player of the year in the MVC resembles Paul Eckerle.

[davidnark]

KL's athleticsm is not the problem. He's as athletic as Paulus(Duke), Frazor (UNC), Scheyer (duke) or any number of kids on winning teams. Our problem is we don't have enough TL's and KL's. That's not Rickma's fault. It's UB's. The cupboard was bare. Sure on one night they can do something amazing, beat St. Joe's or take X to the final second. But over the long haul of a season, uh uh ain't gonna' happen. Look at Kansas State they have Bill Walker and Beasley. Yeah, they will probably make the dance, but even those two ain't taking 'em to the final four, elite eight, or not even the sweet sixteen. You need depth. At SLU's level, you need kids that stay all 4 years and develop into a team under one of the best minds in the game.

I completely agree that Kevin's athleticism is not the problem. I would gladly take a team full of guys with Levins's athleticism, coordination, and ability (at the appropriate height and stregth for their position). It would, however, be nice to at least have a handful of guys on the roster with good basketball skills who also thrived when the game was being played end-to-end and above the rim. I can only think of four Billikens since Bonner and Douglass who fit that description (Hughes, Love, Jeffers, Jamal Johnson). Liddell is close, but he hasn't shown the strength and aggressiveness above the rim that I think he has the skill to do. Sure, every now and then we get a flashy dunk from a Danny Brown or a Chris Sloan, but I miss the regular threat of the alley-oop that we brought with the Douglass and Bonner team.

[3star_recruit]

Majerus's teams have not been built around athleticism -- they've been built around shooting and size. Many coaches in the A-10 OTOH have made a point of recruiting kids who can jump tall buildings in a single bound. Assuming RM sticks around for the long term we're going to nullify that with oversized players -- not with similar athletes.

[Billikan]

Majerus's teams have not been built around athleticism -- they've been built around shooting and size. Many coaches in the A-10 OTOH have made a point of recruiting kids who can jump tall buildings in a single bound. Assuming RM sticks around for the long term we're going to nullify that with oversized players -- not with similar athletes.

All of this talk about athleticism is interesting but really irrelevant. What we need is Rick's types of players. We do not have them and we are the most inconsistant team in the history of the Billikens. We have the same players in the good wins and the horrible losses. We need different styles of players.

I watched the Drake win today and they have two walkons that had no D1 offers as their stars. They have very little high flying athleticism--almost none-- yet they are ranked in the top 20 and beat a very good team today by 30 points.

The point is that a coach needs his type of players, the players need to buy in and play team ball and if you do not have great athleticism then you need the group to play like a "team" with a high basketball IQ. We saw spurts of that this year interspersed with some horrible games. I say we move on and forget this season. Good luck to the seniors who always represented the university in an exemplary fashion and we can be proud of them.

[JaleJarr]

however, be nice to at least have a handful of guys on the roster with good basketball skills who also thrived when the game was being played end-to-end and above the rim. I can only think of four Billikens since Bonner and Douglass who fit that description (Hughes, Love, Jeffers, Jamal Johnson). Liddell is close, but he hasn't shown the strength and aggressiveness above the rim that I think he has the skill to do. Sure, every now and then we get a flashy dunk from a Danny Brown or a Chris Sloan, but I miss the regular threat of the alley-oop that we brought with the Douglass and Bonner team.

It's rare to see a guy throw down an expected alley-oop. Most of the time they come by misdirection or surprise. Looking at this team I only see one player who has that ability. The problem is that player often draws a lot of attention. SLU72 was right. You gotta have the horses. The two best players on this team are tasked to be the best defender, ballhandler, scorer, rebounder, and passer. They are overworked due to depth issue. Anything that is overworked will suffer breakdowns. See GW, Kent State, BC, and now Duquesne for examples.

[davidnark]

Majerus's teams have not been built around athleticism -- they've been built around shooting and size. Many coaches in the A-10 OTOH have made a point of recruiting kids who can jump tall buildings in a single bound. Assuming RM sticks around for the long term we're going to nullify that with oversized players -- not with similar athletes.

Great point. It is just tough to watch Billiken team after Billiken team that has neither the size nor the athleticism to be consistently good. Even the great early 90's teams were built around some of the best outside shooters in the country, not size or athleticism.

[davidnark]

It's rare to see a guy throw down an expected alley-oop. Most of the time they come by misdirection or surprise. Looking at this team I only see one player who has that ability. The problem is that player often draws a lot of attention. SLU72 was right. You gotta have the horses. The two best players on this team are tasked to be the best defender, ballhandler, scorer, rebounder, and passer. They are overworked due to depth issue. Anything that is overworked will suffer breakdowns. See GW, Kent State, BC, and now Duquesne for examples.

I am not disagreeing with you, but if you watched Grawer's late 90's SLU teams they ran set back-door screen plays that routinely resulted in aley-oop dunks for Bonner or Douglass.

[JaleJarr]

I am not disagreeing with you, but if you watched Grawer's late 90's SLU teams they ran set back-door screen plays that routinely resulted in aley-oop dunks for Bonner or Douglass.

I remember the players not so much the plays but I do remember those teams being good enough to advance to the championship games of the NIT. Which leads me to believe those teams were more whole than the one we have today at SLU. I often watch other programs and muse what would Kevin and Tommie do surrounded by competent talent. Not great talent but competent talent- forwards and centers who are 6'9" or more and have the ability to run and jump. As great as Jordan was he didn't truly show he was a great winner until the emergence of the whole Bulls' team. Kind of like the chain only being as strong as its weakest link. Teams know that if you take Kevin or Tommie out of the equation they are going to win going away.