2 soph. and 2 fresh. have been told to explore their options

[davidnark]

I'm 100 percent certain you are incorrect on this. 100 percent. I don't feel like looking it up, but you're wrong. Anthony Mitchell and Marcus Relphorde cannot be freshmen again, even if they transfer now and sit out a year at a new school. They would sit out a year and play the last half of their sophomore year at the new school. Hands down. Adam Knollmeyer is a sophomore, and if he transferred now and sat out a year, he'd have half of his junior season at the new school and then his senior season. This is why it was so odd for Melvin Robinson to transfer less than halfway through his junior season 16 years ago -- he would have had only half of his senior season left at Arizona State (but then he turned pro and never got there).

Thicks, why do you say your are 100% certain? I am pretty sure that a transfer picks up exactly where he left off eligibility-wise but has to sit out a year. So if Maguire left this week, he would still have two and a half years left somewhere else. For example, H Waldman transferred after his second year at UNLV and still had two years at SLU after he sat out his year. The only catch is that a player has five years to use up his eligibility, and the year the player sits out counts toward the five year total.

[Quality Is Job 1]

thicks - Here is my understanding to this situation.

if a freshman leaves now and transfers, they will be eligible to play after sitting out 2 semesters and will have 3 1/2 years left.

Thicks, why do you say your are 100% certain? I am pretty sure that a transfer picks up exactly where he left off eligibility-wise but has to sit out a year. So if Maguire left this week, he would still have two and a half years left somewhere else. For example, H Waldman transferred after his second year at UNLV and still had two years at SLU after he sat out his year. The only catch is that a player has five years to use up his eligibility, and the year the player sits out counts toward the five year total.

14.2.3.1 Minimum Amount of Competition. Any competition, regardless of time, during a season in

an intercollegiate sport shall be counted as a season of competition in that sport, except as provided in Bylaws

14.2.3.1.1, 14.2.3.1.2 and 14.2.3.1.3

Unless a player gets a hardship exception (a redshirt), any competition constitutes a season. I'm not talking about Maguire, because he hasn't played his sophomore season. Knollmeyer, Mitchell, and Relphorde have played this season. Next year is next year -- a new season. When they play then, it will count towards another season of eligibility. I don't know why any of you thinks a player can be a freshman in two seasons without a medical hardship! As for Waldman (and Reggie Bryant, too), he didn't lose any seasons because he didn't transfer in mid-year. He played his sophomore season at UNLV, sat out his required year, and then played his junior season. But when you transfer in mid year, you don't get that. Look, Jason Conley led the nation in scoring as a freshman and then transferred to Missouri mid-way through his sophomore year. Then, at Mizzou, he started playing after the first semester ended, and he was a junior. Based on what you all are saying, he should have still been a sophomore. Not so.

[boomerang]

14.2.3.1 Minimum Amount of Competition. Any competition, regardless of time, during a season in

an intercollegiate sport shall be counted as a season of competition in that sport, except as provided in Bylaws

14.2.3.1.1, 14.2.3.1.2 and 14.2.3.1.3

Unless a player gets a hardship exception (a redshirt), any competition constitutes a season. I'm not talking about Maguire, because he hasn't played his sophomore season. Knollmeyer, Mitchell, and Relphorde have played this season. Next year is next year -- a new season. When they play then, it will count towards another season of eligibility. I don't know why any of you thinks a player can be a freshman in two seasons without a medical hardship! As for Waldman (and Reggie Bryant, too), he didn't lose any seasons because he didn't transfer in mid-year. He played his sophomore season at UNLV, sat out his required year, and then played his junior season. But when you transfer in mid year, you don't get that. Look, Jason Conley led the nation in scoring as a freshman and then transferred to Missouri mid-way through his sophomore year. Then, at Mizzou, he started playing after the first semester ended, and he was a junior. Based on what you all are saying, he should have still been a sophomore. Not so.

Conley redshirted his Fr year at VMI, so he lost a yr when he transferred as he had already sat out a year. You only have 5 years to play 4 and Conley was already in his 4th year when he was eligible at Mizzou.

You are misinterpreting the rule. If Knollmeyer transferred to Semo today (just an example) - he would have to sit out this Spring and next Fall - then would be eligible to play in the Spring of '09 as a Soph. He would have 2 1/2 yrs of eligibility at his new school.

He would have spent 1.5 yrs at SLU, then 1 yr sitting out at Semo. That gives him 2.5 yrs of eligibility at his new school - giving him the 4 yrs of eligibility in 5 collegiate years.

[Quality Is Job 1]

Conley redshirted his Fr year at VMI, so he lost a yr when he transferred as he had already sat out a year. You only have 5 years to play 4 and Conley was already in his 4th year when he was eligible at Mizzou.

You are misinterpreting the rule. If Knollmeyer transferred to Semo today (just an example) - he would have to sit out this Spring and next Fall - then would be eligible to play in the Spring of '09 as a Soph. He would have 2 1/2 yrs of eligibility at his new school.

He would have spent 1.5 yrs at SLU, then 1 yr sitting out at Semo. That gives him 2.5 yrs of eligibility at his new school - giving him the 4 yrs of eligibility in 5 collegiate years.

You guys are all wrong. I'd put money on it. You can't have the same classification more than once unless you get a hardship (and transferring in mid-year is not a hardship). Is any of you willing to put money on it? We can send an e-mail to any college compliance director.

Look, we'll take your example of Knollmeyer transferring to SEMO. Last year he played his fresman season -- 1 year of eligibility. This year is his sophomore year -- 2nd year of eligibility. Unless he could get a hardship (redshirt), this is his second year, period. It's the break, and he transfers to SEMO, a certifying Div. I institution. He sits out the spring semester, and next fall he sits out the fall semester. Then, late in December, when he plays in a game, even for a second -- regardless of what you want to call his classification, it's his 3rd season. Reference the rule I quoted (and I did not misinterpret it -- I'll put money on that). Then he has just one more season -- his 4th. Why can't you guys see this? This is why you rarely see mid-year transfers. It costs players a whole year of eligibility.

[boomerang]

Here's a time line that the NCAA uses:

Conley:

1st yr: redshirt, sat out entire yr at VMI

2nd yr: played his Fr yr at VMI

3rd yr: played the 1st semester at VMI, sat out 2nd semester at Missouri

4th yr: sat out 1st semester at Missouri, played 2nd semester (this would make him a Jr eligibility-wise because it is already his 4th yr since HS graduation

5th yr: played both semesters at Missouri as a 5th yr Sr.

He was in college for 5 years, sat out 2, played in 3.

Here is a time line for Knollmeyer:

1st yr: played full year at SLU

2nd yr: plays 1st semester at SLU, sits out 2nd semester at XXX school

3rd yr: sits out 1st semester at XXX school, plays 2nd semester (finishing his Soph yr of eligibility)

4th yr: plays full yr as a Jr

5th yr: plays full year as a 5th yr Senior.

[Quality Is Job 1]

Here is a time line for Knollmeyer:

1st yr: played full year at SLU

2nd yr: plays 1st semester at SLU, sits out 2nd semester at XXX school

3rd yr: sits out 1st semester at XXX school, plays 2nd semester (finishing his Soph yr of eligibility)

4th yr: plays full yr as a Jr

5th yr: plays full year as a 5th yr Senior.

Nope. Sorry, but that's wrong. This is my last post on the subject. If you can prove otherwise, I'll pay up to whoever has been documented disputing my claim. Once I'm proven correct, though, will any of you pay me?

This is how it would work:

1st yr: played full year at SLU

2nd yr: plays 1st semester at SLU, sits out 2nd semester at XXX school

3rd yr: sits out 1st semester at XXX school, plays 2nd semester (his Jr yr of eligibility)

4th yr: plays full yr as a Sr.

[boomerang]

I'm not betting on being right (I rarely am) - but I know you get 4 yrs to play 5. But the link you posted may override that. I'm not trying to get into with you really, but I know Conley's situation was a little different because he had already sat out prior to his transfer. Seriously, you could be right - but I don't think you are, no big deal either way to me, won't be the first time I've been wrong in my life.

[boomerang]

thicks - looks like you were right according to this article....

http://www.azstarnet.com/sn/related/215605.php

Oh well, no Compliance job for me, back to Financial Aid I go

[thetorch]

I think Dayton has a kid who transferred mid year and starts play soon. The kid from Wisconsin. they would know if loses a year of eligibility.

[STL Hoops Insider]

Does this scenario work? Dustin transferring to SIUE over the semester break. He gets to play fall 2008 instead of spring 2009, because he transferred down to the D2 level and doesnt lose a year because he didnt transfer to another division 1 school at the time of transfer Then when SIUE moves up to D1 next season, Dustin has 3 years of eligibility left at D1 level? It could even be especially nice for him because he played his last year of high school ball at Edwardsville. I'm not really sure how the NCAA would rule on this. Can anybody comment?

[StLouBlue]

You guys are all wrong. I'd put money on it. You can't have the same classification more than once unless you get a hardship (and transferring in mid-year is not a hardship). Is any of you willing to put money on it? We can send an e-mail to any college compliance director.

Look, we'll take your example of Knollmeyer transferring to SEMO. Last year he played his fresman season -- 1 year of eligibility. This year is his sophomore year -- 2nd year of eligibility. Unless he could get a hardship (redshirt), this is his second year, period. It's the break, and he transfers to SEMO, a certifying Div. I institution. He sits out the spring semester, and next fall he sits out the fall semester. Then, late in December, when he plays in a game, even for a second -- regardless of what you want to call his classification, it's his 3rd season. Reference the rule I quoted (and I did not misinterpret it -- I'll put money on that). Then he has just one more season -- his 4th. Why can't you guys see this? This is why you rarely see mid-year transfers. It costs players a whole year of eligibility.

Here is an example. Tim Blackwell went to Creighton for his first semester Fall '03 & played in 3 games, got homesick & transferred to UMKC after finals. He sat out Spring of '04 & until after finals of Fall '04. He has played for UMKC '04-'05 season, '05-'06 season, '06-'07 season and is a senior playing this year '07-08 season.

Blackwell will have played 3 & 1/2 seasons for UMKC after transferring from Creighton. Here is a link to his page at UMKC. If I misunderstood what you are saying & got it wrong let me know. By the way I am not a betting man either.

http://www.umkckangaroos.com/ViewArticle.d...p;Q_SEASON=2007

[billiken_roy]

thicks, i think the only way you are correct is if the player had already used his redshirt year prior to transferring at mid year.

two things to remember. you have 5 years to complete 4 years on court time and when you transfer you will sit out two consecutive semesters.

so imo, if say knollmeyer leaves now, he will sit second semester and first semester next year and then pick up his sophomore season next december.

that is the way i have always read the rule. he cannot get back his first semester, but they wont also take away his second semester unless like i said he had already used his redshirt year that would have covered that two semesters off.

[brianstl]

If any of them transfer to SIUE they will not have to sit at all. SIUE is not D-1 yet, but they will be. SIUE would be an intresting option for any transfer.

[boomerang]

Now I'm really confused - the article I linked seems to imply that thicks's interpretation is right. But if you look at Blackweel from UMKC, it seems the 5 yrs to play 4 is correct.

Blackwell

03-04: Played 1st semester at Creighton, sat out 2nd semester at UMKC

04-05: sat out 1st semester at UMKC, played 2nd semester at UMKC (was named Freshman of the Year, according to his bio)

05-06: Played full yr at UMKC as a Soph

06-07: Played full yr at UMKC as a 4th yr Junior

07-08: Currently playing at UMKC as a 5th yr Sr

That would be 4 years played in 5 years time.

Has there been a change in the rules in the last 1-2 years maybe?

[slufanskip]

See thicks, I told you so. Go ahead and deposit the $312,000.00 in my Caymen Isalands acct. I'll PM you the info.

[Quality Is Job 1]

Does this scenario work? Dustin transferring to SIUE over the semester break. He gets to play fall 2008 instead of spring 2009, because he transferred down to the D2 level and doesnt lose a year because he didnt transfer to another division 1 school at the time of transfer Then when SIUE moves up to D1 next season, Dustin has 3 years of eligibility left at D1 level? It could even be especially nice for him because he played his last year of high school ball at Edwardsville. I'm not really sure how the NCAA would rule on this. Can anybody comment?

How can you advise student-athletes on how to get scholarships if you don't know how the process works?

[Quality Is Job 1]

Here is an example. Tim Blackwell went to Creighton for his first semester Fall '03 & played in 3 games, got homesick & transferred to UMKC after finals. He sat out Spring of '04 & until after finals of Fall '04. He has played for UMKC '04-'05 season, '05-'06 season, '06-'07 season and is a senior playing this year '07-08 season.

Blackwell will have played 3 & 1/2 seasons for UMKC after transferring from Creighton. Here is a link to his page at UMKC. If I misunderstood what you are saying & got it wrong let me know. By the way I am not a betting man either.

http://www.umkckangaroos.com/ViewArticle.d...p;Q_SEASON=2007

He apparently was granted a hardship, so those three games for Creighton didn't count as a season.

[Quality Is Job 1]

Now I'm really confused - the article I linked seems to imply that thicks's interpretation is right. But if you look at Blackweel from UMKC, it seems the 5 yrs to play 4 is correct.

Blackwell

03-04: Played 1st semester at Creighton, sat out 2nd semester at UMKC

04-05: sat out 1st semester at UMKC, played 2nd semester at UMKC (was named Freshman of the Year, according to his bio)

05-06: Played full yr at UMKC as a Soph

06-07: Played full yr at UMKC as a 4th yr Junior

07-08: Currently playing at UMKC as a 5th yr Sr

That would be 4 years played in 5 years time.

Has there been a change in the rules in the last 1-2 years maybe?

I suspect he was granted a hardship, so the three games he played for Creighton didn't hurt him.

[moytoy12]

He apparently was granted a hardship, so those three games for Creighton didn't count as a season.

I didn't see that in his bio.

[3star_recruit]

I got your back thicks.

Day, Blackwell get chance to finally play

Kansas City Star, The (MO)

December 18, 2004

Author: DAVID BOYCE

Practicing, but not playing? That was hard.

Being able to do nothing as your team loses its first four games? Tougher still.

But the worst? Gotta be the shoes.

When Quinton Day and Tim Blackwell play tonight for the first time since transferring to UMKC, they will be thrilled to appear in front of their family and friends - in basketball uniforms.

"It was the suits that got me," Day said. "I was just uncomfortable sitting in those suits all those games. My feet were hurting in those dress shoes.

"I'm just so happy to be in tennis shoes and not have to sit on the bench the whole time and coach Z (Rich Zvosec) looking at us like he wants to put us in, but he can't. Now whenever he calls our number, we can jump up and go to the scorers' table."

Actually, Day and Blackwell are expected to start when UMKC plays host to Central Florida at 7 at Municipal Auditorium.

Much is expected of both right away. Day, a two-time DiRenna Award winner at Paseo, is a 6-foot-1, lightning-quick, left-handed shooter who signed with Southern California out of high school but played in only four games.

Blackwell, a 6-4 guard, set a school record for points at Cameron with 2,184 and was a DiRenna Award finalist in 2002-03. Blackwell signed with Creighton and played three games. He injured his back at Creighton and was granted a medical redshirt.

When they both decided to transfer after their first semester in college, they knew waiting to play games again was going to be tough.

The last time Blackwell played was the fourth game of last season for Creighton, when he played just 4 minutes.

"I'm anxious to play again," Blackwell said. "I got a little taste of it at Creighton in what little I played.

"But I haven't really felt that real-game experience since high school. It's almost been a two-year wait. I'm starting to get that feeling of butterflies like the old days."

[3star_recruit]

I think what's confusing folks on the board here is their absolute application of "5 years to play 4". Sure you get five years to play 4, as long as one of the years is a redshirt.

[cheeseman]

which is it cheese? first you said above

"The first half was not a pre-SIU offense. "

then you said,

"What you saw last night was the RM's offense"

that is classic. you contradict yourself in the the span of three sentences. either it was or wasnt.

Roy, you misunderstood my point. All I was trying to say was that nothing has changed - after rereading my post I see how you could have not understood.

[Quality Is Job 1]

I think what's confusing folks on the board here is their absolute application of "5 years to play 4". Sure you get five years to play 4, as long as one of the years is a redshirt.

Thanks, 3star!

[thetorch]

SJ-R.com

Kentucky freshman guard Alex Legion, who has announced a desire to transfer, is seriously considering a move to play basketball at Illinois.

A Parade All-American last spring from Inkster, Mich., the 6-foot-4 Legion apparently will decide between the Illini and Notre Dame, although there are indications that his father would like Legion to return home and play at Michigan. A decision could come as early as today.

“The bottom line is he’s ready to get out of there,’’ Tim Green, Legion’s former AAU coach, told the Lexington (Ky.) Herald-Leader. “He wants to move on.’’

Legion averaged 6.7 points in six games at Kentucky, and insiders say he’s a high-level pro prospect because of his athletic ability and shooting range. Yet there are plenty of subplots to Legion’s next move.

A star at Oak Hill (Va.) Academy last season, he first signed with Michigan. When Tommy Amaker was fired as coach last spring, Legion was granted a release from his letter of intent by new Wolverines coach John Beilein. Legion eventually enrolled at Kentucky, but a rift emerged between Kentucky coach Billy Gillispie and Legion.

Gillispie said late last week that Legion wasn’t a member of the team. According to a report by the Louisville Courier-Journal, Legion was granted permission to speak with one school in particular, but Kentucky spokesman Scott Stricklin wasn’t sure which school that would be.

As of Wednesday night, that school wasn’t Illinois, a source said. Bad feelings emerged after former Illini assistant Tracy Webster left abruptly in September for the same job at Kentucky. When Webster left for Kentucky, the Illini hired Jerrance Howard, a former Illini guard who worked in Kentucky’s basketball operations office.

Howard built a close relationship with Legion before leaving for Illinois, a source said. An Illini offense in desperate need of scorers and playmakers could use a boost from a talent such as Legion.

Legion apparently wants to transfer before the start of the second semester. He would then sit out a year under the NCAA transfer rules and become eligible to play for the second semester of next season. He would have 3 1/2 years of eligibility remaining.

[3star_recruit]

Legion didn't sign an LOI with Kentucky, he signed with Michigan. So he can transfer without incurring the one year loss of eligibility.

Edit:

Straight out of the mouth of the UK compliance officer.

http://www.kentucky.com/276/story/249706.html

If Legion transfers, he would have to sit out a year at his new school, but he would not face the same loss of a year’s eligibility that led Joe Crawford to reluctantly return to Kentucky in the middle of his freshman season.

Crawford faced the extra penalty because he signed a national letter of intent to play for Kentucky, which requires a player to stay at a school a full academic year before transferring, UK compliance officer Sandy Bell said.

Legion originally signed with Michigan. So he did not sign a letter of intent with Kentucky and would be free to transfer without the loss of a year of eligibility, Bell said.