Billikenbooster Posted January 17, 2007 Share Posted January 17, 2007 said that Tommie was the best player in the state the Bills coaches should not be allowed to go into the state of TExas due to all the dogs we have come up with from the state. said the Billiken recruiting is dreadful (his word). cried about not offering Josh Harrelson from St Chas (to WIU) said that Tyler Griffer from Lafayette 6-8 kid getting outmuscled in the paint, but would eventually be a top 75 recruit. nothing above is new to this board, but good to hear from him about recruiting in general, and taking the coaches to task for having to settle for reach players like OI, HD. Apparently coach still hasn't heard from OI. mhg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheeseman Posted January 17, 2007 Share Posted January 17, 2007 Not only is what he said not new but the truth. Brad has had a very weak overall recruiting effort here. He has been here 5 years - 5x13= 65 schollies he has had available to offer - I am sure I have over stated the number but I would think it is at least 1/2 that #. In my opinion here are the players he has gotten that are true D1 players - not stars : Tom Fericks, Reggie Bryant, the guy from Israel, Tommie, Kevin, Ian, Luke, Polk - am I missing anybody? That is 8 by my count. I am open to anybody else's names and rationale for who I left out. I am not including JJ or Danny or Bryce, they have not shown they are D1 players. I am not counting Dustin or Adam simply because they have played so little we don't know about them yet so that # could go to 10. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davidnark Posted January 17, 2007 Share Posted January 17, 2007 Cheeseman, I am not disputing the overall point you are making; however, Brad does not have 13 open scholarships to offer every year. Most years, he has 3-5 open scholarships to offer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
courtside Posted January 17, 2007 Share Posted January 17, 2007 Frank is a nice cheerleader for SLU and also high school sports. That's what he is. I take what he says overall with a grain of salt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjray Posted January 17, 2007 Share Posted January 17, 2007 >>Frank is a nice cheerleader for SLU<< True. This is why I listen closely when Frank C. calls Brad on the carpet for poor recruiting. Cheerleaders generally make excuses. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
courtside Posted January 17, 2007 Share Posted January 17, 2007 I question Frank's overall knowledge of a lot of thigs college ball, yet he still states his opinions, which is of course what he does, radio and tv. He is in a position of local radio tv guy...some out there automatically believe what they hear. My point was more related to his specific college hoops knowledge...than his opinion of the recruiting of the local team. Many times I have heard him throw out opinions comments etc..on other coaches, teams, not in the area...and he came across very misinformed. I understand your point and your interest in his comments on SLU recruiting based on his past positive encouraging SLU remarks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Basketbill Posted January 17, 2007 Share Posted January 17, 2007 Losing the TV deal this year, I think has really pissed F. Cusamanno off. Not sure what the financial impact was, not sure if he gets to be involved in Channel 11 shows. I suspect he is probably being more honest now than in past years. However, it seems difficult to saying TL is the best in the state, and recruiting is dreadful in the same sentence. This year is not over yet, I am not ready to say harrelson is the second coming of Bonner and SLU should have grabbed him yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SLUDrew Posted January 17, 2007 Share Posted January 17, 2007 winding up at Western Ill leads me to believe that we aren't missing out on the second coming here. Then again, with AK and BH as the ONLY inside guys returning, if you are over 6'9 and have a pulse you could probably help out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Majerus Magic Posted January 17, 2007 Share Posted January 17, 2007 Harrelson is far far better than he was last year. I admit that I wasn't upset with the fact that we didn't offer Harrelson, but he is a totally different player this year. He has been dominating game after game. I know think he definitely would have been a good addition to the team. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheRaginCajun Posted January 17, 2007 Share Posted January 17, 2007 Well this staff has thrown away scholies to power forwards like JJ, Bryce, Obi, and Horace Dixon. I would probably prefer taking a gamble on a power forward from the area rather than one out of state. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheeseman Posted January 17, 2007 Share Posted January 17, 2007 David - yes you are correct - I figured it out on my own after I thought about it - my math was correct but my assumptions were wrong. Ragin - that was the point Frank was making. If you are going to gamble then gamble with a kid a hometown kid who wants to go to SLU. He was very frank about how Brad had really not down an overall good job of recruiting. I don't think Frank is upset with SLU on the TV thing - he knows it was CSTV that dropped the ball not us. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hardball Posted January 18, 2007 Share Posted January 18, 2007 This is the kind of publicity SLU can ill afford to have especially with the upcoming local recruiting classes. While I agree with most of what Frank said I am more concerned about the lasting impressions. We can all sit back and blame the University (budget constraits) but IMO the coaching staff really shoulders the blame for the lack of quality recruiting. So much of recruiting for kids is perception rather than reality and I just don't think this staff does enough to put itself in a positive light in the community. There are many things that can be done that would provide good PR instead of recruits only hearing about what a radio broadcaster(and a long time supporter of SLU basketball) has to say about our inadequate recruiting. SLU should try to match every negative comment with a positive one whenever they can. There is a great story in USA today regarding Virginia Tech and how they turned around their program in a THREE YEAR time period. What is interesting about the short turnaround is the emphasis the Virginia Tech coaching staff put on being part of the community. Read below on how Seth Greenberg gardnered enthusiasm for his program once he was hired. Pay special attention to the third sentence. "Perhaps the biggest influences seen in the program has been the work ethic and attention to detail that Greenberg and his staff have instilled. And when speaking of hard work, the principle begins at the top, Greenberg himself. Long hours of watching film, instructing players and program development, along with tireless work in promoting the program and university and being involved in the community have made Greenberg a popular face on the Blacksburg campus and in the "Hokie Nation." While many people are still up in the air on whether BS is the guy to turn around Billiken nation he should take a page from Seth's book and increase his success rate in recruiting by focusing on becoming a bigger part of the community. He will have to work harder at SLU than he did at Wisconsin in this area. BS needs to stop sitting back and allowing a radio broadcaster to define his recruiting success. Remember good recruiting is as much about perception as it is reality. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted January 18, 2007 Share Posted January 18, 2007 cheeseman said, "I am not including JJ or Danny or Bryce, they have not shown they are D1 players." by saying the above statement, you are saying that all three are not good enough to sit on the bench for the worst team in division one. i also dont follow your math. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted January 18, 2007 Share Posted January 18, 2007 if harrellson was that good, why is he going to western? a bigger miss is lucas o'rear imo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NashvilleBilliken Posted January 18, 2007 Share Posted January 18, 2007 Roy, Cheese's standards are completely unrealistic. He still absolutely refuses to admit that Luke can shoot the ball (even said it today). Luke leads the team in shooting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted January 18, 2007 Share Posted January 18, 2007 so we should follow seth greenberg? the same seth greenberg that was the doormat of cusa while at south florida? the same seth greenberg that hasnt had an over 500 record in the acc as well? seth greenberg? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slu72 Posted January 18, 2007 Share Posted January 18, 2007 I posted this some time ago. If you look at the SIU and Mo.State rosters they are filled w/ local kids. I know we went after a few of them, Shaw most notably. We would kill today to have some of these players wearing SLU Blue. I know nothing of Harrelson, but based on the Obi and HD fiascos he would have at least been a body to practice against. We've got to get realistic in our recruiting. We're not going to land many top 150 kids. Probably 0 who reside outside St. Louis, Missouri, and SE Ill. We don't have the name, tv, winning tradition, and probably still carry the stigma of playing slow ball. The best we can hope for is that whoever is the coach can land one or two of the area's top 10 kids in any given year, and then fills other openings with guys who have potential to develop, see Falkner from SIU. This past fall we went up against schools like KSU, Georgia, Indiana, and got our ears pinned. Our chances are very slim of landing these types unless a kid says I want, my parents want, my girlfriend wants me to have a Jebbie education. Just ask yourself how would SIU, Mo.State, Wichita fare in the A-10? Not bad I dare say. UB landing TL and KL was a major coup, but one that didn't happen overnight. They flew under the AAU summer camp radar and didn't get discovered until late. That doesn't seem to be the case with the '08 class, and I fear we're all going to be disappointed as they start falling like flies to the BCS schools. So, unless we know we are one of these kids top choices, I'd start pursuing some of that second tier talent in the '08 group. We don't want them pulling a Shaw on us. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheRaginCajun Posted January 18, 2007 Share Posted January 18, 2007 I think the point being made is that they are not legitimate Division I basketball players and Bryce and JJ certainly are not. You don't bring kids in who you think are good enough to ride the bench of a division I program for 5 years and I am sure there are plenty of D-II and III kids who could ride the bench of many D-I programs. We have brought in nothing but mid-major talent since signing Tommie and Kevin. Obi, Horace, Dustin, and Knollmeyer are all mid-major talents to go along with guys like JJ and Bryce who are also mid-major talents at best. We need guys who can be productive on the major college level. Outside of Polk, Lisch, Liddell, Meyer, Vouyoukas and I will throw in Brown we don't have guys who deserve to be competing on this level. I went to a practice earlier in the season and I was completely shocked by the lack of skill and fundamentals of all of the big men outside of Ian. Justin Johnson may be one of the worst basketball players / athletes I have seen in my life. Whoever considers him an athlete is an awful evaluator of talent, the kid cannot even consistently catch a basketball or run straight. He moves with such awkwardness and lack of coordination that I am amazed he ever received a scholie from a D-I program. Horace was about the same, although he appeared to have better control of his body. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SLUDrew Posted January 18, 2007 Share Posted January 18, 2007 I am all for going after the elite kids even if it means missing out on a second tier kid that we may have gotten had we shown him more interest. We have spent most of our lives as Billiken fans watching second tier kids. Some of them turned out to be true diamonds in the rough and became fan favorites. However, if the coaching staff accepts that they are not going to get elite players and just focuses on the second and third tier guys how will we ever rise above where we are? You need to be a master recruiter at SLU to get these kids but it can be done. I will spare you the laundry list of schools having much less going for them than SLU who found a way to take their programs up a notch. This is why I do not think Brad is the guy for this job. I think if we wanted a guy to "maintain" a program Brad would be alright, but we need a guy to take this program up a level or two. Brad flat out cannot recruit well enough to do that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted January 18, 2007 Share Posted January 18, 2007 you want to say that we have midmajor division one talent, or that husak, brown and johnson couldnt make the top 25 team rosters, that is fine, but to say they are not division one talent is completely wrong. they all three would start for some division one teams. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moytoy12 Posted January 18, 2007 Share Posted January 18, 2007 "if harrellson was that good, why is he going to western?" Couldn't the same thing be said for Falker or some other players that flew under the radar (i.e. the tall kid from Bradley last year...forget his name) before those MVC teams were really the talk of the mid majors? I have no clue why he's going to western and hasn't been recruited by others, but that doesn't preclude him from being a valuable asset to SLU. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moytoy12 Posted January 18, 2007 Share Posted January 18, 2007 Come on roy, when did you become such a literalist? I'm guessing you knew what was meant. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted January 18, 2007 Share Posted January 18, 2007 hey i was one of the few saying we should be recruiting shaw not grimes when shaw was in high school, but the fact is, that soderberg wasnt the only one that made that mistake. self, and $nyder made the same mistake. they loved that big body of grimes and obviously all thought they could be the ones to harvest the potential. grimes committed to mi$$ouri in early summer and slu indeed then turned their attention to shaw at that point and he visited, and was offered. painter though correctly reminded shaw he was there all along and won out. but if shaw wanted to come to slu, he could have he hadnt committed to siu at that point yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted January 18, 2007 Share Posted January 18, 2007 i know what was meant but it is so absolutely wrong it needs to corrected. those kids are division one players. to say they arent is a huge insult imo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted January 18, 2007 Share Posted January 18, 2007 moy, bradley and missouri state are no where near as bad as western illinois. western illinois is currently the 335th out of 336 division one teams. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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