CAG Posted January 8, 2007 Share Posted January 8, 2007 I think it’s fair to say that Marquette, Butler, Gonzaga, SIU, Creighton, Western Kentucky, Providence, Xavier, Depaul, and other small "mid major" schools have been able to be far more successful then SLU has over the past 10 years. I think it’s also fair to say their administrations are similar to ours. However, I’m confused by the constant complaints on this site of how our administration has put us at a disadvantage in comparison to the above named institutions. Please cite examples how those administrations are so drastically different then SLU's and how they offer their coaches so much more. What is SLU's "recruiting budget" compared with those schools I mentioned? Does anyone have numbers? Maybe I don't know the recruiting game that well. Do you need a huge budget to go to Gateway Tech and recruit a Randall Falker or to recruit Matt Shaw or a Blake Ahearn or Leon Powell? The list obviously goes on of local recruits we missed. Is the excuse that our recruiting budget is too small? Why is SLU's budget deep enough to recruit an Anthony Drejaj from the East Coast or a Bryce Husak from Iowa or Danny Brown from Texas but it’s not deep enough to get it done locally. How does the administration hold us back from recruiting these local guys? Don't tell me they're all dumb and can't succeed academically here. My second point... it seems like a lot of you make the assumption that most basketball players are dumb and b/c SLU holds their athletes to such high academic standards, none of them can get by. That is completely false. Please list all the players kicked out of SLU or suspended b/c they couldn't hold up their educational end of the bargain. Also list those players that would have come to SLU but couldn’t qualify here and then went on to succeed at another university. JT would have been ineligible anywhere. Ricky Cranford was a busted recruit who didn't leave due to grades. Nick Kern appeared to be a lost soul. Our two recent losses: Obi was lazy, not surprised he couldn't keep up his grades. As for Horace Dixon, did not leave for grades alone. Otherwise SLU would have come out and said he's ineligible. He's going to juco b/c Soderberg was quoted to say he's not fitted for D1 college basketball - flat out bad recruiting by Brad. I don't remember anyone ever being kicked out for drugs or beating up or raping a girl or having guns but if they did or would be I would praise my alma-mater for doing so. In terms of success stories, SLU has made dramatic strides with a number of student athletes including Liddell. He didn't do it alone. There are plenty of D1 prospects out there that can play at a high level and meet SLU's standards. Don't blame the administration for holding them at the standards they do. This has not adversely affected the program. That's another weak excuse from fans for the fact we couldn't win the recruiting battle. Some say the administration does not give our program the proper amount of funds they need to do a successful job. However, Brad has said publicly numerous times that there is nothing he's asked for that they've turned down - most recently at the MAC kickoff breakfast. Now they're building the men's basketball team an $85 million dollar arena - a huge recruiting tool. I want examples as to why the administration has quit on this program from a funding standpoint. Maybe they need a team Boeing 757 Jet for their road games. Maybe they need 2,500sqft apartments with hot tubs for players. I'm sure all those other mid majors have and do this stuff. What else do you want them to do, or please cite references of what the above institutions do to put them at an advantage over SLU. A tv contract. Hold the A10 responsible for that. Not the administration. Holding the administration accountable for the program being poor is a copout and an awful excuse. Jobs are delegated downwards. For the men's basketball program it goes Biondi then Cheryl then Brad. It is Cheryl's, was Woolard's and Brad's job to make this program successful. If anyone has evidence and not rumors that this administration does not give Cheryl and Brad the necessities other administrations give their heads of their programs then please provide facts and I will take them to the tip-off meeting Thursday and bring it up with who ever is there point blank. “Cheeseman†said the other day that “the past 2 days there are several websites related to this topicâ€. I read this site consistently but have never seen anything concrete. I don’t want hear about rumors of SLU not paying coaches cell phone bills or proof of what Duke or KU does for their programs. Please compare successful mid majors to our program and show me the differences. If anyone has facts, maybe we can take them to Cheryl directly and poise the question why we have that particular disadvantage. Better to be proactive and do something about it rather then whining on this message board. Otherwise quit using the administration as an excuse. CAG Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slufanskip Posted January 8, 2007 Share Posted January 8, 2007 One of the most important think a coach has to do is recruit. If you've been reading we just had a thread that listed SLU's recruiting budget at or very near the bottom of the A10 ... and behind the other major schools in the area. Official Billikens.com sponsor of H Waldman Official Sponser of the Stemmler and Ahearn could and would have helped club. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moytoy12 Posted January 8, 2007 Share Posted January 8, 2007 The point is valid nonetheless. Presumably, this is a similar recruting budget UB had when recruiting an east coast kid, an iowa kid, etc. Also, the lack of budget doesn't explain the misses. this isn't to say that an increased budget wouldn't help. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Box and Won Posted January 8, 2007 Share Posted January 8, 2007 Edwin and Pulley flunked out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CAG Posted January 8, 2007 Author Share Posted January 8, 2007 the subject should have read "blaming our deficiencies on the administration is no excuse" So is there a chart that lists the A10 schools and their recruiting budgets? I must have missed that one. I want someone to post some legitimate numbers in dollar figures and their sources and then compare our budget to the A10's or "other major schools in the area" CAG Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moytoy12 Posted January 8, 2007 Share Posted January 8, 2007 View the recent threads on this subject. In particular Budget - Truth v. Fiction or something like that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CAG Posted January 8, 2007 Author Share Posted January 8, 2007 can't seem to find it, can you send me a link? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBand Posted January 8, 2007 Share Posted January 8, 2007 http://www.billikens.com/dcforum/DCForumID3/10196.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thetorch Posted January 8, 2007 Share Posted January 8, 2007 Hey everybody Father Biondi is now posting at the board. Or is this Biondi's lookalike bodyguard? Citing examples of Husak, Brown, Drejaj is ridiculous. Those were last minute recruits. Very litte time was spent on them. All three showed interest, got eligible and were given a scholarship in the span of a couple weeks. Signing guys like that does not make for a successful program. Normal recruiting that involves several different types of daily correspondence, multiple home, game, and campus visits is the type of recruiting that builds good programs. This is the type that unfortunately SLU does not have the budget to compete with area schools and in conference schools. 2nd point can be answered with one word Father Biondi - UPCHURCH. Program is still reeling from that debacle. Your regard for the program 20 years ago was deplorable and still is. 3rd point is ridiculous. You expect the coach to call out his bosses and demand more money in a public setting? I want some of what your smoking Father. TV contract, as a member institution you can demand things of the league. And uh you joined the crappy league in the first place. You met the brass at the A-10 and failed to recognizze them as incompetents. That is your fault Father. C'mon Father you micro manage everything at SLU. You count every penny spent. The buck stops only with you. If you show up at the meeting Father I'll be there. And why do you bring up cell phone bills? Are you not paying for the coaching staff cell phone bills? If you aren't no wonder we lose. I've e-mailed and written letters to your office on several occasions. As a matter of fact my first letter I wrote you was when I was 8 and the topic was Upchurch. I'm still waiting for you to write me back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Battlecat455 Posted January 8, 2007 Share Posted January 8, 2007 Are you applying for a job or something? What an amazing syncophant. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted January 8, 2007 Share Posted January 8, 2007 cag, you didnt read the budget numbers in the string below that shows our athletic dept budget ranks in the bottom 100 schools in the nation? how is a school supposed to become a top 50 program with a budget in the 270's? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slufanskip Posted January 8, 2007 Share Posted January 8, 2007 maybe it leaves you just taking the kid who will come when you don't have the recources to go after the kids you really want. Official Billikens.com sponsor of H Waldman Official Sponser of the Stemmler and Ahearn could and would have helped club. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CAG Posted January 8, 2007 Author Share Posted January 8, 2007 Is that the budget or is that what the coaching staff has chosen to spend. Still don't understand why it is so expensive to recruit local guys. I personally feel a coach and athletic director are more responsible for a program's success then the administration. If Biondi is calling all the shots & everything is his fault then he may as well be coach and AD. CAG Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knight_rider Posted January 8, 2007 Share Posted January 8, 2007 Accountability should be placed on the shoulders of everyone involved with the program, top to bottom. The football Giants accomplished a lot with finger-pointing! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted January 8, 2007 Share Posted January 8, 2007 he effectively is tying their hands as he has. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ACE Posted January 8, 2007 Share Posted January 8, 2007 This is a good post. It seems like Roy has recently gone to this administration thing AFTER losing to the Bonnies in an attempt to take some heat off of Soderberg. I still find it hard to believe that basketball only schools like Creighton, Butler, Gonzaga, Xavier, St. Joseph's, SIU and Mo State are so much better off in terms of administrative support and what the schools have to offer. Ten years ago we were better than all these programs. In recent years, these programs have passed us by. Was our administrative support so much better 10 years ago? Why didn't the lack of "administrative support" prevent us from landing Waldman, Jeffers, Love, Perry, Tommie, Ian, Kevin, and Reggie Bryant? I hope the administration provides as much support as possible, but none of this stuff excuses the simple fact, that Soderberg hasn't done anything in the last four recruiting periods. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SLUSER Posted January 8, 2007 Share Posted January 8, 2007 Do not blame SLU's recruiting budget as a way to defend SLU's piss-poor performance year after year. The other mid major schools get it done, not because their budget is high, but because they get solid coaches who locate players that fall under UNC, Kansas, UCLA, and Florida's radar. These coaches bring the players in and DEVELOP then. They make them better players. When you can develop these players, you can compete and when you compete you win. This is how you build a team that will be recognized nationwide. This typically doesn't happen overnight. However, it CAN..... Bill Self at Tulsa. Head Coach, Tulsa (74-27, .733) 1997-98.....19.........12........613..........(9-5)Third.......................None 1998-99.....23.........10........697..........(9-5)T-First.....................NCAA Second Round 1999-00.....32.........5..........865..........(12-2)First......................NCAA Elite Eight Don't tell me Tulsa was so committed to their basketball program and since their recruiting budget was so high, they were able to compete. It's called COACHING, it's call DEVELOPING decent talent into SUPERB talent. What did Thad Motta do at Xavier? How about Butler too? Here you go…… Butler was 24-8 under Matta's direction that year with an 11-3 MCC record and a league regular season championship, a MCC tournament championship and an appearance in the second round of the NCAA tournament. Butler won 13 of its last 15 games, including a 58-44 upset win at then 10th-ranked Wisconsin and a 79-63 bashing of then 23rd-ranked Wake Forest in the first round of the NCAA tournament. The win over Wake Forest was Butler's first NCAA tournament win since 1962. Eventual NCAA runner-up Arizona ended the Butler run in the second round of the NCAA tournament. Career Record 2000-01 Butler 24-8 (.750) 2001-02 Xavier 26-6 (.813) 2002-03 Xavier 26-6 (.813) 2003-04 Xavier 26-11 (.703) 2004-05 Ohio State 20-12 (.625) 2005-06 Ohio State 26-6 (.813) Same thing applies here. Thad put Butler on the map. No one else....don't say the admin helped him out, because the admin was helping the previous coach. The sooner you guys realize Soderberg is the one at fault here, the sooner he is let go and the sooner SLU brings in a coach that will get it done. The numbers don't lie. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheeseman Posted January 8, 2007 Share Posted January 8, 2007 For some reason a post I had made was removed when the entire thread disappeared but in that post I pointed out several things: 1. Our overall Mens BB budget is bigger than SMS, SIUC, and others who have been more successful recently and in some cases our budget has $500K more in it. 2. As far as the recruiting budget goes - that is strictly up to Brad - that budget does not sit in isolation. If he wanted to put more money in the recruiting budget all he has to do is move it from somewhere else in the budget - that is how the world works. For whatever the reason he doesn't want to do that because it might mean he has to give up something else. Now, if you ask me, what is more important than recruiting? - I am hard pressed to figure it out. 3. I use to think the academic issue was a problem but not anymore. There has been enough stuff shared on this board that I have dropped that issue. This is strictly a coaching issue - period. If he can not do the job with the resources he has then he needs to move on. I understand that our overall budget is in the bottom of the top 100 but we are at least in the top 100. Also, cost of living aspects have to be calculated in - in other words, it cost more to run a program in Boston, Philly, NY, LA, SF. I know that is not all of it but part of it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ACE Posted January 8, 2007 Share Posted January 8, 2007 Also, if budgets really are such a big issue, why in the hell did we go into the A-10 instead of the Valley? I would think travel expenses would be much less in all sports if we had gone to the Valley. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted January 8, 2007 Share Posted January 8, 2007 finding the next self or matta is the chore though. i admit that there are miracle workers out there. hiring shimmy was akin to that imo. that said it is also like finding the needle in the haystack. and if you do miss again then we are right back where we started from. plus, you may find the right guy and with all he has to overcome still cant pull the trigger (see romar). the overall budget has to get much better or we are not going to achieve anything long term. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SLUSER Posted January 8, 2007 Share Posted January 8, 2007 So bad coaches can succeed with a higher budget? Wake up and realize the Basketball budget is not the reason. We have a top 100 budget for basketball....not that bad at all. How can Romar recruit players on the west coast with such a poor budget? I can assure you, the budget had NOTHING to do with passing up on Ahearn, Faulkner, and Shaw. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SLUDrew Posted January 8, 2007 Share Posted January 8, 2007 The only way we could have spent more on travelling would be if we had joined the Pac-10. It is interesting that we chose a conference in which we have such high travel expenses yet according to some on here this program is so destitute the kids will have to buy their own uniforms next year. For some reason, I do not think that the financial backing for this program is as lousy as it is made out to be. I will admit that I have never thought winning was Fr. Biondi's top priority, but this idea that he handed Brad the keys to a Tercel and told him to go beat a Porsche is a little overstated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slu72 fan Posted January 8, 2007 Share Posted January 8, 2007 No offense, but I attended TU and the comparison to SLU, which I graduated from, are somewhat misleading. Tulsa has been a very good mid-major since the mid 60's. Their facilities are far superior to SLU's. While they have played off campus many years, they are the main game in Tulsa. While their football team is not BCS caliber, they have an outstanding football facility and all the weight lifting, support systems that large football programs maintain. SLU doesn't compare at this level. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SLUSER Posted January 8, 2007 Share Posted January 8, 2007 So Bill Self had nothing to do with getting good players and taking his team to the Tourney, etc? Self has continued his success at Illinois and Kansas. The man can coach and recruit. Kids want to play for the guy so they went to Tulsa, not because of the outstanding football facility. Coaching is so important in the college game. Slu proved in the '90s they can compete as well and land players. And now all of a sudden you want to blame Slu's facility and their budget?? how did Spoon land players then? Answer: Cause he can coach! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
courtside Posted January 8, 2007 Share Posted January 8, 2007 I will take a crack at the original poster's comments. 9 schools you mentioned...3 of which are BSC schools with long traditions of hoops for decades.(DePaul, Providence, Marquette)are not mid-major schools Western KY, I hope Darrin Horn gets his first NCAA bid this year, great teams his first 3 yrs, but its a one bid league, and you don't want that kind of league...again, Ralph Willard, Dennis Felton before him...playing weak conference...SLU must shoot higher than this or settle for one bid league. Horn is very likeable, and WKU grad, and scheduled big time teams out of conference this year. Hope gets gets it this year. Xavier and Gonzaga, been doing it for decades, Few has been at Gonzaga 18 years, Xavier has had Gillen, Prosser assisted him 8 yrs, Prosser, now Miller who has been everyhere...a lot of these guys coincidentally have all been at Providence College btw. (Gillen, Rick Barnes, Pitino, &I believe Miller, Felton) etc...continuity with program...and both were one bid leagues for many years. SIUC...not as much success...but doing it more recently with the coaching continuity of Weber, Painter, Lowery...etc..Butler, again, ...Matta, Lickliter been there two different stints, and Butler plays in weaker one bid league. Creighton? Took Altman 5 yrs to dance...and a lot of those early Valley year invites for him were win conference tourney to get in...this would be more of the past 10 year thing you have suggested...and SIUC....the others are very different places than SLU. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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