Billikan Posted January 7, 2007 Share Posted January 7, 2007 College basketball today has a lot of teams that beat you if you do not play well. The Dukes beat Boston College on their floor and now the Bills. At times tonight we played well on offense and when we got the big lead in the first half I was really excited that we could recover from a bad loss. But that long three at the buzzer cut the lead to 5 and I had a bad feeling in my gut. We gave up a lot of our lead in about 2 minutes or so. The second half was interesting to watch if you did not have a rooting interest but as a Bills fan it makes us sick. They came out and tied the game and then we went to a zone and took a 7 point lead. They looked really surprised. But even though we had a number of good defensive possesions their defensive scheme became apparant and it worked. Their plan was to suffocate Ian with three guys if he got the ball, double Tommy every time and leave Lisch and Polk and Brown wide open from the outside. Those three guys may have had the worst game of their lives on the offensive end. Then they started pressing and we gave the ball away on physical plays where we were often fouled but there was no call and they went in for layups. Every pundit in college ball says that the game today is a game of guards and for that reason I thought we would be good this year. Tonight our three guards, Kevin, Dwayne and Danny killed us on both ends. What amazes me is that they were are among our very best defenders and their defense has gone downhill a lot. In terms of ballhandling they turned the ball over and did not play strong with the ball. If those three player play like this for the rest of the season we will not be over .500. I never in my wildest dreams thought that those 3 guys could play so poorly. Ian was a nonentity on offense because of the double and triple teams and he was so so on defense. Luke, and especially Tommie, had fantastic games on the offensive end but they had no help at all and Luke had to sit with foul trouble. it has been a long time since I have been so disappointed in our Bills. This was a game we had to win and we gave it away. But, as always, I will be there to cheer them on and will be a big supporter of the school and the program. Players and teams go into slumps in every sport and some of our players and our team is in a slump. I want to give all of you my regards for a prosperous and happy and healthy new year. As all of you know, I am an eternal optimist and a positive person and it will be difficult for me to deal with all of the negativity on this board in the coming days and weeks so I am going to take a sabbatical so you will not have to read my kool aid posts for a while. Gone about 30 days--maybe something good will happen in the meantime. PS--Although it was not the direct reason we lost the game I think the A10 refs are the worst in the country. I watched closely on a number of their "steals" and our guys were shoved out of the way repeatedly with no fouls called. In particular, I thought that one of the refs decided personally that he wanted the Bills to lose the game and he made repeated calls against us when we were defending and made no calls time after time when they were fouling us over the back or in the open court. I think the conference is sending us a message that they do not want us to win anything and that is a shame. Good luck to all of you! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davidnark Posted January 7, 2007 Share Posted January 7, 2007 Good and fair assessment of tonight's game. I may not be a big fan of Brad, but it still kills me to see my team lose games like tonight. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davidnark Posted January 7, 2007 Share Posted January 7, 2007 This board needs its eloquent optimists. I would hope that you find your way back on here sooner rather than later. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
courtside Posted January 7, 2007 Share Posted January 7, 2007 M.A. I would hope that you would take the time to dig a little deeper past the trolls and deep-enders and discuss intelligently with some of the the others. In case you do leave, let me give you my response. Nobody more than me has cried and preached for more floor general guards, letting Lisch play two guard and fill in at point once in while, and letting Liddell play the wing. It is my opinion SLU needs two point guards. Others have already disagreed and will again. Also...in order to win in college basketball today, you need to have a good recruiting class every other year...by that I mean a couple of high major recruits. TL and KL was a great class, that is two major contributors, and top level players(I do not expect that every year, but if two years later you don't get even one more high major, it is a problem)...IV has progressed into a high major, and that is 3 players in 3 years, not bad...concern is current Frosh class has zero high level like the above, and next year not likely either. Even the role players are not enough like LM, solid role player recruits which you must get especially in a year without high major...You cannot come up empty two years in a row or more and win. No, you don't need high majors every year, but need ONE every other year, or two in a class etc..If you lay an egg two years in a row or more, won't compete at high level...SLU has 3 in 3 years, and it is why they have a chance to be better, but the role player/solid players tht aren't superstars recruiting needs improvement, and, SLU is due for one high major recruit for next season in order to win at higher level. And still, with that, coaching those kids is the other factor. Coaching is obviously another aspect of the game, preparation, adjustments in game, etc...developing players. SLU still has an opportunity to right its ship...the key games are Xavier, Dayton etc..not an encouraging conference start but certainly not over yet. In my other posts, I have tried to point out that it is okay for people to want more, a winner, even though the University lacks that commitment. Yes, it is tougher, but can be done and has been done to a higher success than SLU in other places also lacking admin commitment. The new facilities will help with recruiting but more is needed, and while it is not easy, someone can win more at SLU under the circumstances, and hopefully then they demand more from the school and get it. I definitely think it will take someone who wins with little help first, then pushing for the support. For this year, margin for error is not great anymore...RPI won't be good, so gotta win the conference, or conference tourney to have a chance and that is what most thought anyway. It is possible to right the ship, as it is early in conference play, though people are obviously a little concerned that the one bd loss wasn't just a blip, now it is another at home. We shall see. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quality Is Job 1 Posted January 7, 2007 Share Posted January 7, 2007 If you were really an optimist, you wouldn't leave for 30 days, because you would believe that the team would be destined for a good stretch and the mood of the fandom would change. In fact, your actions demonstrate that you are a pessimist. The truth is, you believe in a fantasy, and you can't take the bad with the good. You've got to have balance. Since the team we root for is in a slump (I think that's debatable), you should be able to accept critical comments from fans who want the team to win (after all, winning wasn't the point, they wouldn't keep score). Do you want the team to win, or do you really not care one way or the other? &l;I guess Billikan won't see this response.&r; Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moytoy12 Posted January 7, 2007 Share Posted January 7, 2007 Well said. You would think with all of the multinational corporations that Billikan has run that he has faced adversity from time to time. Did he just duck and cover? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Basketbill Posted January 7, 2007 Share Posted January 7, 2007 courtside said, " margin for error is not great anymore". I have been thinking perhaps the percieved Margin of error that we have had for the beginning of the season is greater than reality. SOmeone pointed oout we have not handily beaten anyone with the exception of La Tech. I think we and the team thought they were better than they are.....can we play two halfs like the 2nd half of mississippi and pacific, or perhaps we cannot? I think the margin of error is the same just that we are hitting the reality that it is much smaller than we realized. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slu72 Posted January 7, 2007 Share Posted January 7, 2007 Billikan, if you're leaving you've given up on them. I am one of the biggest UB naysayers on the board. It started after the Stemler deal last spring. Warranted? Absolutely, this team has 3 very good D1 players in IV, KL, and TL. By that I mean they would probably all be starters at most BCS schools other than UNC, KU, and the rest of top 5. They would be key role players on these teams. LM is a fine support player, not every team needs stars. After that, we've got nothing in the tank. DP showed flashes, but it's disappeared for now. Our bench? Only one word describes it, CRAP. There is nothing there except turnovers, defensive lapses, missed shots. UB had high expectations going into this year. I heard that from none other than Bobby Cremins, who told me he spoke to UB at various camps, and that he was high on his team. How could UB think with his veteran bench, DB, JJ, and BH being crap, and the kids he recruited in the spring not ready for this level, that we could be a tourney worthy team? He's had five years to build this program...he hasn't. That's not negative it's objective. I was told by a wise old boss of mine that the greatest gift a manager, owner, CEO can have is objectivity. Being able to with hold your emotions and look at a situation objectively. Is this going to work or not? UB is not going to work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Basketbill Posted January 7, 2007 Share Posted January 7, 2007 2002-2003....or at least the start of conference....I would hope that a week from now we are talking about a 2-2 team......but we started 0-4 in 2002-2003 season and finished 9-7 in conference. Right now I would be ecstatic if we finsished 11-5 in conference. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
courtside Posted January 7, 2007 Share Posted January 7, 2007 Nobody likes to hurt kids' feelings...but if you want to be in that top 25-30 mix, you gotta do better than DP and LM. I know LM has been a nice role playing find or it would be even worse. But in order to get to the next level, a bigger, faster, stronger, more athletic player in that spot is needed to beat the better teams that SLU can't beat. And DP wouldn't make the roster at most of said schools. SLU has 3 good players, an undersized role player that can get you production against lesser and like teams, nothing more, and an undersized two guard who can't shoot, create for himself or others, or finish a break or make good decisions on a break. His clame to fame is guarding Ahearn in one game. And you mentioned the bench. It isn't rocket science, SLU has not had 3 good players on a team before under BS...IV has been absent in many games this season, downig that list to two good players a lot of times. It is very tough to win without a point guard...but everyone pulls the Mike Martz for point guard talk...shoot we have two good guards, don't need one, we'll fix it. Hmm....17 turnovers vs Duquesne, hmmm terrible against pressure from Ole Miss, Houston, etc...and these aren't good clubs. A point guard not only helps with pressure and eliminating turnovers, but runs the offense, and is a leader on the team. Obviously veteran reserve players for short minutes are so bad they don't play. If they could, they would...Husak etc...are terrible...JJ, DB, SLU has tiny margin for error to win games, and BS knows this and knows his butt is on the line, and his choice, which I actually don't mind, is to not play these players because they are not good enough even in short time to help the team or maintain status quo. AK, DM, are not high enough level recruits to be anything more than 2 year contributors as one dimensional role players. They are better than past bench players...look at LM...he didn't have much to contribute his first two seasons, and these two are no better than him, or they would be playing. You do not need a KL, TL every year....but you need to bring in a kid at or near their level every other year to compete at higher level. If SLU had a point guard and serviceable bench, they would be pretty good, pretty solid. And I haven't even gotten into coaching. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DirtyRican Posted January 8, 2007 Share Posted January 8, 2007 You say that AK and DM cant contribute right now but how do we know for sure? They couldnt be any worse than DB who plays timid and scared. I dont understand why he continues to get minutes. He wouldnt even play on my high school team and I went to an all girls school. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Basketbill Posted January 8, 2007 Share Posted January 8, 2007 want to see AK and DM get minutes at seperate times, two here three there, when the rest of the team is veteran. That would be a good way to get their feet wet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
papal Posted January 8, 2007 Share Posted January 8, 2007 papal our greatest immediate problem is the lack of productivity from kevin lisch. I don't know whether it is because of injury or something else. He played porly at the end of last season(but he was a freshman). Unfortunately I have a feeling watching our games that I rarely had when Spoon or Romar were on the sidelines(we often get outcoached) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billikan Posted January 8, 2007 Author Share Posted January 8, 2007 Ok--you insulted me enough that I am back--at least to some extent. you are right about one thing, as opposed to most of the negative people on this board I never gave up when faced with adversity and I have seen a lot of it over the years. I was not quitting on the team or the coach--I was refusing to participate in the never ending spriral of negativity that will undoubtedly occur. I want to challange every person who claims to be a Billiken fan--a real fan--to tell me what good it does for the school and the program for fans to post outrageous things on a message board which if read by recruits would convince them never to come to SLU. How can that be a good thing even if we are down and hurting. The post from TAJ79 was an outrage. For any Billiken fan to suggest to a player that he should go to another school on a public website where that player or his family may see it is a ridiculous and spiteful thing to do. You claim to support the program yet you try to hurt the only thing that will make us better-- trying to attract better recruits. That sort of negativity is the worst kind of destructive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billikan Posted January 8, 2007 Author Share Posted January 8, 2007 See my other posts--I would never give up on the team--I just thought it would be better for my psyche if I did not have to deal with all of the negativity. I changed my mind when I saw that people said I was giving up--which is not true. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taj79 Posted January 8, 2007 Share Posted January 8, 2007 .. name the only two Billiken Board members who have quit posting, only to break their words. Hey, don't ge me wrong. I don't want you to leave Mr. Positive. I enjoy reading your stuff. The overbalance of the positivie is needed to counter the reality of it all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
courtside Posted January 8, 2007 Share Posted January 8, 2007 >Ok--you insulted me enough that I am back--at least to some >extent. you are right about one thing, as opposed to most of >the negative people on this board I never gave up when faced >with adversity and I have seen a lot of it over the years. I >was not quitting on the team or the coach--I was refusing to >participate in the never ending spriral of negativity that >will undoubtedly occur. I want to challange every person who >claims to be a Billiken fan--a real fan--to tell me what >good it does for the school and the program for fans to post >outrageous things on a message board which if read by >recruits would convince them never to come to SLU. How can >that be a good thing even if we are down and hurting. > >The post from TAJ79 was an outrage. For any Billiken fan to >suggest to a player that he should go to another school on a >public website where that player or his family may see it is >a ridiculous and spiteful thing to do. You claim to support >the program yet you try to hurt the only thing that will >make us better-- trying to attract better recruits. That >sort of negativity is the worst kind of destructive. You obviously underestimate these young men and their families. Not condoning any type of comments...but first, this board is one of the tamest I have seen in college sports compared to others. 2nd, stop babying people...college hoops, major d-1 is big time,...or as you even put in your posts, a business....finally we agree on something. EVERY message board in America is negative when the team doesn't win. I don't know how many times on this board you have posted something in response to me or vice versa then when I actually post something you can't back up....you run away. Recruiting and $$ pointing out how other tougher academic schools are winning with less money. One of many examples...how can that be? 5 recruiting classes, 3 hits. And 6th class looks bleak. And during that time, the role players aren't even serviceable in some classes. Combine this with offensively challenged teams, inability to make enough in game adjustments. People on the board are not only concerned with recruiting, a HUGE aspect of the job, but unlike you may are not sure Brad is a good enough bench or practice coach either. I will be the first to point out it takes many coaches a few years to build something...many coaches...but signs as you go...are people seeing enough from the coaching standpoint, on and off the floor from Brad to be satisfied. It appears 50/50 at best to most people, & with what looks like two missed classes in a row, he MUST get at least 2 high major players in 08 class, assuming he doesn't get a miracle juco for next year. I went to the trouble to point out before...for a program like SLU...if you miss two years in a row on a high major player...even just one...it is a killer...what do I mean by high major player? TL, KL quality. Need continuity in recruiting, at least every other year. Don't need a million stars, etc..but gotta have one high major every other year, min. or you look at years of NIT at best. Even if Brad hits in 08 class, say SLU misses NCAA this year...those Frosh, at least TWO have to come in and play right away like TL and KL...while hoping the others from this year are decent role players by then...then TL and KL graduate, and it is NIT for 1-2 years hoping to get a high major recruit in those years to turn it into NCAA more than one year in a row. Let me be the first to say, not advocating firing of Brad. It seems you just want to make the NCAA's once, people on the board want more than that....so unless a superstar juco comes for next year, those 08 kiids better rock. More than one. The 2nd tier kids he is getting are not serviceable enough. Here's a tip, if you want undersized kids, like the Valley, they need to be shooters and athletic, must be athletic, with good enough feet, and can shoot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slu72 Posted January 8, 2007 Share Posted January 8, 2007 What, you'd rather have recruits come on here and say, "those SLU fans are apathetic ,they don't even care if their team wins, because they never write anything bad about anyone." Why would a recruit want to come here if he thought we were all a bunch of optimistic losers. Geez, billikan, I've read your posts for a lot of years and enjoyed them...but you're taking this negativity about UB way too hard. There is no way to defend this guy's leadership over the past five years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slufanskip Posted January 8, 2007 Share Posted January 8, 2007 Our biggest problems are turning the ball over and giving up offensive rebounds. We gave up 28 pts off 17 turnovers. Even with DP, TL,and KL on the floor we cannot beat a press consistently. Why isn't Ian coming down to help. I think we need Luke in the game ... he should be starting, just at the 3 not the 4. Imo ... we should be starting TL, KL, LM, AK, and IV ... start them and let them play. Work on beating the press with passes, instead of dribbling until you are trapped and then turning it over by forcing a pass. It is truly silly that we can't beat a press ... I could coach them to do it in 2 practices ... it isn't hard. You just have to be smart. Official Billikens.com sponsor of H Waldman Official Sponser of the Stemmler and Ahearn could and would have helped club. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moytoy12 Posted January 8, 2007 Share Posted January 8, 2007 Skip, in your opinion, is it UB's fault or the players' fault that we can't beat the press consistently? From the sound of the above post, it seems you may take UB to task for our team's inability to solve the press. Just curious, i don't get to see many games and appreciate your input which is generally balanced and objective. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
courtside Posted January 8, 2007 Share Posted January 8, 2007 >What, you'd rather have recruits come on here and say, >"those SLU fans are apathetic ,they don't even care if their >team wins, because they never write anything bad about >anyone." Why would a recruit want to come here if he thought >we were all a bunch of optimistic losers. Geez, billikan, >I've read your posts for a lot of years and enjoyed >them...but you're taking this negativity about UB way too >hard. There is no way to defend this guy's leadership over >the past five years. Billikan is somebody who knows Brad a little bit(I am confident I know who Billikan is, but won't reveal out of respect), and cannot separate personal with business. Billikan likes good hardworking nice people... You cannot automatically give anyone the keys to the car because they are nice and hardworking. Or you would be giving anyone a chance. I admire the enthusiasm and calm posts...but disappointed that Billikan has run away from debated with me on several threads....posts and runs. Billikan has looked for excuses...oh its the budget for Brad....but as pointed out, G-Town, B.C. Gonzaga etc...less $$ ...and so on with posts. Billikan is a good person, who always ses the light at the end of the tunnel. The problem I have however...are things like...oh we can't blow it up now cuz you have to start over etc....tough turkey...it is possible may have to do that yet again...possible if Brad can't do it. and Billikan does not want to even have to think about that...the thought of that is too much to bear, part for respect for Brad as person, and part doesn't want to go through that again. Welcome to that business of college athletics. If SLU hiured SLU72 as its head coach, and Billikan met and liked SLU72, Billikan would be saying the same thing, blindly. Just as people are opposed to haters and negative people, there is something flawed with blindly supporting a coach or team without breaking it down as we say....and trying to get the very best. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
courtside Posted January 8, 2007 Share Posted January 8, 2007 >Skip, in your opinion, is it UB's fault or the players' >fault that we can't beat the press consistently? > >From the sound of the above post, it seems you may take UB >to task for our team's inability to solve the press. > >Just curious, i don't get to see many games and appreciate >your input which is generally balanced and objective. They have not recruited ONE point guard for this team. I preferred two. The position was taken for granted. Point guards, even serviceable point guards, are a lot easier to find than bigs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davidnark Posted January 8, 2007 Share Posted January 8, 2007 >I think we >need Luke in the game ... he should be starting, just at the >3 not the 4. Imo ... we should be starting TL, KL, LM, AK, >and IV Skip, that is exactly what I was beating my drum about over a month ago. You guys defended Brad when I used his own quotes to question why he wasn't starting a true power forward at the 4 and sliding Luke down to the 3. See http://www.billikens.com/cgi-bin/dcforum/d...orum=DCForumID3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slufanskip Posted January 8, 2007 Share Posted January 8, 2007 It's hard to say, because I don't know what we practice ... if he goes over it and they either can't grasp it or don't then it is the players. If he hasn't instructed them and we don't work on it enough in practice as it is and has been in the past a problem it is UB's. Even with less athletic players ... if you play smart, teams won't press you, because they will get burned for too many easy buckets. So I guess the answer is I don't know ... probably a little of both. Either way it is inexcusable. Official Billikens.com sponsor of H Waldman Official Sponser of the Stemmler and Ahearn could and would have helped club. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slufanskip Posted January 8, 2007 Share Posted January 8, 2007 Dwayne Polk was supposed to be a pg. If not, what the hell does he bring to the table. TL came is as the pg of the future (which imo he is not) ... so I think we recruited them ... For what it is worth, I have also been on record as saying the need for a pg is huge. Official Billikens.com sponsor of H Waldman Official Sponser of the Stemmler and Ahearn could and would have helped club. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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