Duff Man
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Posts posted by Duff Man
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Health is the biggest factor. Yuri's not even halfway to 1,000. He's been on an amazing clip these past few weeks but he's also 1 freak landing/collision away from missing extended time. Even a concussion would seriously damage his prospects of getting to 1,000.
Realize he's going to have a target on him and increasingly teams are going to try and punish him when he drives to the basket. He's a warrior for sure, but even the hardest players get hurt sometimes.
If/when he gets to 700 next season, then you start looking at Bobby Hurley's record.
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1 hour ago, BilliesBy40 said:
Fair point. I just found it weird you would start with H's year 3 stats (technically, year 4, but his 3rd year playing) and Yuri's year 1 stats and ignore the clear improvement between year 1 and 3.
This post topic is best Billikens point guard ever. Why would we factor in stats from another team?
I didn't ignore Yuri's improvement. Reading comprehension is hard.
YOU chose to ignore the part where I said
QuoteIF Yuri can continue taking and making more 3s, and continue to evolve his all around game over the rest of his career - and most importantly lead the Bills to the NCAA tournament - he'll clearly be above H Waldman in the PG power rankings.
H Waldman gets bonus points for being the addition that got the Bills into the dance for the first time in 37 years. He was not the best player on that team, but the team the year before was 12-17 (1-9 in conference). With H Waldman they became a legit sensation locally and were selling out their hockey area venue.
It would be a more fair comp if Yuri had his own Claggett in Javonte Perkins - and we might have to wait another year to see Yuri go dancing - but it might work out that Perkins' absence causes Yuri to raise his game to a level this season that he might not have otherwise. If he does drag this Billikens team into the dance, he'll be the GOAT for sure.
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30 minutes ago, almaman said:
Wild Y is already ahead in total games. All of H's came after Y's season wise. His PPG likely to increase jr&sr years if he progresses as most do.
Assuming Perkins comes back next year, the team will be less reliant on Yuri to score.
I'm really not worried about the stats. I just want to see Yuri keep getting better. It's going to be tough to ever have another game like last night, but if he can just keep the turnovers down, keep the assists up, make a couple 3s a game and make the defense respect his outside shot, and have the poise in crunch time (even when he's been shouldering the load and fatigue is a factor) to make the winning plays game in game out - he's going to take this team places.
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19 minutes ago, BilliesBy40 said:
Those stats are only for Waldman's time at SLU. If you look at their full careers, Yuri already has more assists despite playing in 46 less games.
We're seriously comparing the 31 games H played as a bench warmer on arguably the greatest team not to win the NCAA tournament to Yuri's freshman season as if that's apples to apples comparison?
Please those of you too young to have seen H please stop discussing him.
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2 hours ago, BilliesBy40 said:
Waldman is before my time, but his assist numbers are not in the same stratosphere as Yuri.
It's tough to compare H to Yuri - I just think of them both as on their own tier.
Yuri can do more things than H could when it comes to dribble penetration. H was more of a scorer than Yuri over Yuri's entire career thus far, but H also would never have had a game like last night - and H arrived as a seasoned transfer while Yuri is still evolving as a player.
Stats don't tell the whole story, but here are there cumulative per game stats...
H Waldman 59 games, 30 MPG, 10.8 PPG, 5.0 APG, 2.1 SPG, 2.5 RPG, 2.0 TPG, 3.2/7.2 FG, .443 FG% 2.2/5.3 3P, .420 3P%, 2.2/2.7 FT, .796 FT%
Yuri Collins 71 games, 30.9 MPG, 7.1 PPG, 6.6 APG, 1.6 SPG, 3.2 RPG, 3.1 TPG, 2.5/6.1 FG, .405 FG%, 0.5/1.5 3P, .327 3P%, 1.7/2.5 FT, .678 FT%H spent his 2 seasons playing PG for teams where he was the 3rd or 4th leading scorer. His role was consistent.
Yuri spent 2 seasons where he was not much of a scorer at all as the team had plenty of other options, but now in his 3rd year he's the 2nd leading scorer and ultimately the guy with the ball in his hands on the final shot.
IF Yuri can continue taking and making more 3s, and continue to evolve his all around game over the rest of his career - and most importantly lead the Bills to the NCAA tournament - he'll clearly be above H Waldman in the PG power rankings.
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48 minutes ago, CenHudDude said:
I assume that your list must include 30+ points games. Otherwise, how could you not have Has with 21/24 on your list.
I did ultimately limit to 30 point games. If Has had made over half his FTs he'd have been on the list.
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Limiting to 1 game per player, in games the Billikens won, since 1985
Roland Gray @ New Mexico 3/23/1989 (W 66-65) - 34 points, 11 rebounds, 12-22 FG, 5-9 3P, 5-7 FT
Anthony Bonner @ Loyola 3/1/1990 (W 102-86 OT) - 45 points, 20 rebounds, 5 assist, 19-30 FG, 7-7 FT
Larry Hughes @ Marquette 1/24/1998 (W 71-62) - 40 points, 13-22 FG, 5-9 3P, 9-10 FT
Jordair Jett @ Rhode Island 1/7/2014 (W 59-58) - 31 points 10-18 FG, 2-2 3P, 9-13 FT
Javonte Perkins vs LSU 11/28/2020 (W 85-81) - 32 points, 10-18 FG, 4-8 3P, 5 assists, 8-8 FT
Yuri Collins @ George Mason 2/2/2022 (W 92-90 2OT) - 35 points, 11-24 FG, 3-7 3P, 13 assists, 5 steals, 5 rebounds, 10-10 FT
slufanskip likes this -
Mitchell, Jett, and McCall were all combo guards.
None of them were as pure of PGs as H or Yuri...but they were all Billiken HOF caliber combo guards.
Lisch and Goodwin were scoring guards who would play PG out of necessity given the makeup of the roster.
There's no wrong answers, these are all Billiken greats.
If you're just talking pure pass first point guard skills, I think it's H and Yuri and then everyone else....
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1 hour ago, thetorch said:
I'd love a deep dive on the 88 team from one of the players or the coaching staff.
Going into the season the Billikens were favored to win the conference, were in several pre season NCAA tourney previews and made SI's top 40 preseason teams. As an 9 year old that had me the most excited as I read SI voraciously.
Was it all Upchurch? Were there other things going on behind the scenes? This team had a ton of talent, maybe the most that Grawer ever had and they completely sh*t the bed.
I'd also like anyone with more behind the scenes intel beyond what was printed in the Post-Dispatch to chime in on how things went off the rails that year.
The shoe dropped on Upchurch in mid August and I think it just put the entire program in a bad spot headed into the season. Injuries were also a factor.
I know Bonner had disciplinary issues with Grawer - and obviously they worked it out but in the meantime they lost games.
The thing that kills me is that they made the MCC finals and lost to Xavier in 1986, 1987 and 1991 - but the 3 year run when they should have been peaking w/ Bonner/Douglass/Gray - they twice lost to single digit win teams in the opening round of the conference tournament.
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1 hour ago, billiken_roy said:
you had to look this up? werent you on this team
?
btw, are you encouraging your son to consider SLU?
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22 hours ago, billiken_roy said:
the problem was the old midwestern cities conference got zero respect from the ncaa. we were a one bid conference forever. we should have been given a spot for the douglas, gray bonner years. yes we were the second best team in the conference to xu, but those billiken teams were very deserving imo.
Looking back at Grawer's tenure, they lost to Xavier in the MCC tournament final in 1986 (8 point loss), 1987 (12 point loss), and 1991 (16 point loss).
SLU finished 2nd in the regular season MCC standings in 1986 and 1989.
So 1986 was the only year when they were the clear cut 2nd best team - but they went 18-12. This was when Douglass and Gray were freshmen and Bonner was a SR at Vashon.
In 1986-87 the MCC had 2 teams 8-4 and 2 teams 7-5 including SLU. IF they had just avoided road losses at sub .500 Oral Roberts and Butler, they'd have won the MCC outright (9-3) instead of being tied for 3rd and would have been 22-6 headed into the MCC tournament (where they lost to Xavier in the final) instead of 20-8.
The 1988 team was undone by the Upchurch fiasco and they were just a .500 team finishing 3rd in the MCC and lost to Detroit in the 1st round of the MCC tournament.
The 1988-89 team (Douglass/Gray SR year, Bonner's JR year) finished 2nd in the MCC in the regular season behind Evansville, but got smoked by Xavier in the MCC semis and 3rd place Xavier went on to win the auto-bid. Xavier (led by Tyrone Hill) ended up a 14-seed and lost to eventual national champion Michigan by 5 in the first round.
That 1989 team was Grawer's best chance and ultimately they were undone by road losses to Dayton and Detroit. Also they had single digit road losses at SMS, Colorado, Memphis St and Xavier plus a 3 point loss vs top 10 Iowa on a neutral court - if they had won 2 of those resume builders and avoided the 2 bad conference losses, they'd have tied Evansville (or finished 1st if one of the resume builders was the game at Xavier) and would have been 26-4 heading into the MCC tournament instead of 22-8 and even more importantly they could have potentially avoided Xavier until the final...
The 1990 team was undone by injuries/illness and suspensions and fell apart in the opening round of the MCC tournament, losing to Loyola.
The MCC got 2 bids in Bonner's JR and SR seasons. Evansville (at large) and Xavier (auto-bid) made the dance in 1989 while Xavier (at-large) and Dayton (auto-bid) made it in 1990.
It was tough to make the dance as an at-large but it was possible. Grawer's teams never finished 1st in the conference regular season and only once made the conference tournament final in a year when they finished 2nd in the regular season - and that team was 18-12.
There was clearly a scenario where they could have made it in 1987 or 1989 - but they just didn't take care of business on the road against the bottom feeders of the MCC.
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11 hours ago, CBFan said:
Where was Kevin Footes in that game? He did not play everyone.
Footes was always in the Grawer dog house.
1-11 3 point shooting versus 10-24 for Loyola is hard to beat.
I don’t remember that game but in the first round NIT game Footes did not play and I sat near the bench and yelled at coach Grawer where is Footes.
I liked coach Grawer, he got me interested in SLU basketball. I was a big Norm Stewart fan but SLU and Grawer changed me for the better.
For those of us that remember SLU before Grawer can appreciate that coach Grawer brought back interest in the program.
No Footes and No Duff and they shot 1-11 from 3. No mention of either in the post article. It's almost like post dispatch mailed it in as much as the team.
Digging further, Duff had been out with mono and/or other injuries for a while. Footes was suspended for final games of the season that included Bonner's 45 point game at Loyola, Senior Night vs Marquette, and a 87-83 loss at Evansville to close out the regular season.
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Let's talk about that 1990 MCC conf tourney loss. What the hell happened there? Grawer apologists take notes.
Per the Post Dispatch (staff report, no named reporter), there were players who broke curfew but Grawer didn't discipline them and just played everybody after losing games earlier in the year after benching players
http://timday.net/slu-1990-loyola.jpg
Who was there? Who remembers? This is how Bonner went out. The NIT is a joke. Why did this season go so wrong?
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Why are husbands running their wives purses back to the car?
Just because the Cardinals adopted this non friendly policy doesn't mean we need to.
What is this protecting us from?
For decades though multiple wars we could bring bags in.
Who made this call and why?
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40 minutes ago, RiseOfTheBillikens said:
Way to ruin it... Wtf is it then
Mike Shildt has been hired to wear the Billiken costume at home games.
He's also going to give profane locker room speeches after big wins but will remind everyone to put away their phones first.
slufanskip, billiken_roy, RiseOfTheBillikens and 1 other like this -
38 minutes ago, billiken_roy said:
hahahahahaha
sorry my spelling isnt to your level of acceptance. i said joe not john. i would think most people would be smart enough to understand. i spelled his last name wrong and i meant the guy who is the only living person to win a world series for the cubs and is now managing the angels. not the crazy guy that used to coach football. but at least you apparently are a good speller. i am happy you got that going for you.
Roy it was aimed at the entire thread mostly misspelling Shildt (including the original poster) not just you.
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For the love of Gus Phillips...
Joe Maddon with an O.
Mike Shildt without a C.
Madden is 85 and hasn't coached since 1978 and he's never had a baseball job.
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46 minutes ago, billiken_roy said:
the above list is a fail. no world series winner there.
Skip Schumaker won a World Series as a player in 2011. He drove in the only run in the Carpenter/Halladay NLDS game 5 duel.
I would prefer Schumaker to another internal promotion. He had a long career as a role player (as have most good MLB managers) and has been part of playoff runs on other teams both as a player and coach.
I do think ultimately Mozeliak runs the organization in order to be perpetually competitive but doesn't make the moves necessary to win the World Series and he doesn't appreciate a manager who challenges his authority even if that dynamic is a necessary component to win (the 2011 Cardinals don't win the WS if TLR doesn't go over Mo's head and get DeWitt to force Mo to trade Rasmus)
Bay Area Billiken and slufanskip like this -
The only way STL ends up with a team (plus stadium) is if the judgement/damages are so extreme ($5-10B) to the point that Kroenke defaults on his indemnification contract with the other owners...leaving them to hold the bag and willing to offer a team plus X billion dollars for stadium/facilities as a means to end the ordeal.
The magnitude of the damages hinges on whether the increased value of the franchise as a result of the move are recoverable damages and/or are factored into the punitive damages.
It's not impossible but it's a long shot and many developments away in an absolute best case scenario.
My prediction is that the NFL and the Rams are humiliated in court and after many years of appeals the Kroenke estate pays STL and the lawyers $1-3B in damages.
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3 hours ago, willie said:
I missed him. Which one was Roy?
That's Roy in the corner.
That's Roy in the spotlight.
Losing his religion.
slufanskip likes this -
7 minutes ago, brianstl said:
I think at least a significant portion of the award would be limited on what it could be spent on by the fact it would be going to the St. Louis Regional Convention and Sports Complex Authority. I think state statue limits that money to be spent on sports and convention facilities the authority itself operates or decides to build.
The SLRCSCA or CVC or whatever is funded by the City and County, who are co-plaintiffs. I'm sure it'll be like the Simpsons trying to figure out how to spend the oil money (won't somebody please think of the children) when it comes to how to spend it, and I don't necessarily have confidence it will be spent well...but I just think if we're using it for a new stadium, we need a partner (a team) who is willing to help maintain it.
https://www.courthousenews.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/04/RamsNFL.pdf
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31 minutes ago, billiken_roy said:
again, i hope that st louis is smart enough to pay off the dome and the soccer field with their settlement.
and i believe they will settle. the owners will not want their financials out. particularly since they know they are going to lose. they will settle.
i personally hate the nfl. but we all know an nfl franchise is pretty much golden even if poorly run and an annual loser. some billionaire is waiting to buy and wants to be in the snob club of an nfl owner. thus if they want to include in the settlement a franchise plus a billion dollars why not take that?
again, i quit the nfl when all the kneeling started so i dont know a lot about it and really dont care about it. wouldnt go to a game no matter what. but i am fascinated by this suit and am watching the development very closely and very entertained.
The Dome will be paid off by the time the settlement is reached (or damages enforced).
The owners can't just make Stan settle nor can they make the STL lawyers accept a settlement. If the owners know they are going to lose, surely the STL lawyers know they are going to win, so why settle unless the amount is greater than what think they can win.
Why the owners include a permanent cut of their TV revenue in the settlement?
So you didn't quit the NFL when Stan crapped on our city on his way out the door in 2016 but the final straw was African American players protesting police brutality? Gotcha.
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30 minutes ago, brianstl said:
A NFL team isn't a real flagship tenant. It only fills ten days a year and it actually makes it harder to schedule other events because 20 weeks have to be blocked off the schedule annually until the NFL releases their schedule.
I'm sure there is some truth to the argument that the Rams made it harder for the Dome to book events in the 2nd half of the year. That said, you start the year with 10 events already booked. In a normal lease situation - which I know we didn't have because we built a stadium without a tenant and had no leverage in negotiations with the Rams in 1994 - but in a normal lease situation the flagship tenant is on the hook for some of the maintenance/operating overhead.
How many weeks a year is your 50k retractable roof going to have events?
How many of those events would have gone to Enterprise or the Dome (or the MLS stadium) had the new venue not existed?
How many other cities have a 50k+ retractable roof stadium without a sports team that plays their home games there?
Now, if you can guarantee that we're going to get the Final 4 every so many years, and Wrestlemania so many years, and USMNT/USWNT World Cup qualifiers so many years, and it's built somewhere that will actually enhance downtown and not just cannibalize from other venues...then maybe it would be a good idea...
It just seems like there would be better ways to spend the money that would benefit the region 52 weeks a year.
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58 minutes ago, Slu let the dogs out? said:
On the topic of NFL expansion to STL I could have sworn Randy K responded to someone in a tweet that there is virtually no chance STL gets an expansion team because the NFL wants nothing to do with STL and STL wants nothing to do with the NFL which makes sense and is fine with me. Perhaps I’m just back on my crazy pills, perhaps he subsequently erased it, but I don’t see it anymore.
I can’t believe there are people in STL that still want an NFL team. Do you guys like getting cucked too?re: St Louis getting a team
I think going back a few years, when it became clear the LA Chargers were a problem in terms of generating so much less revenue than anyone else, combined with the STL lawsuit becoming a bigger threat, there was some "fixer" talk within NFL circles that couldn't we just solve both problems by moving the Chargers to St Louis?
Spanos has no incentive to move. He's got a sweet lease in Stan's stadium. They can't make the Spanos move. They can't make him sell. Even if they could, who would be willing to step up and buy the team and own them in St Louis? It would need to be someone who already has a ton of credibility in St Louis and many billions of dollars and someone the owners would accept into their club.
Expansion talk is also an extreme longshot for many of the same reasons. STL (if they win) will get a lump cash payment, not a team or any kind of perpetual cut of revenue.
The reason the lawsuit is such a problem is that it's exposing that the NFL doesn't follow it's own relocation guidelines - which normally a private institutions guidelines would be far less important than a binding lease between a regional authority and a sports team...but the issue is that the relocation guidelines are part of the grand bargain decades ago that allows the NFL to maintain it's antitrust exemption. I'm not a legal scholar but my understanding is that damages are tripled in anti trust cases.
re: The owners will just settle
Easier said than done. Realize the only way the STL lawyers would settle is if the offer is greater than what they think they're going to win in trial (multiplied by their confidence factor that they will prevail). Stan is on the hook for it all anyway - so presumably he's the one who would have to settle.
re: Building a stadium with the settlement money
Don't build a stadium without a flagship tenant. That's what got us into this mess in the first place.
We're not going to build a retractable roof 50k stadium to host Final Fours once every decade and the occasional soccer game that won't be as intimate as the venue a few blocks away.
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Best Billikens Point Guard
in Billikens.com Main Board
Posted
Jett was a combo guard not a pure PG.
That season he was playing the MJ guard.