What is the value of CUSA for SLU?

[davidnark]

The current CUSA structure guarantees SLU two games against Marquette, DePaul, and Charlotte and one game against Memphis, Cincy, and Louisville. CUSA also forces SLU to play 7 games against very average programs which have little fan support and little philosophically in common with SLU (i.e., the NASCAR schools).

In other words, CUSA guarantees SLU 5-9 quality games (depending upon how good DePaul and Charlotte are in a given year) and forces SLU to play at least 7 games against average-at-best opponents.

In my opinion, we would be better served in a conference in which we were guaranteed 10-14 games against good, but maybe not great, opponents (e.g., Creighton, Xavier, Dayton, Marquette, DePaul, etc.) and only played a handful of teams against average-at-best opponents. We could hopefully add a couple more non-conference games each season to offset losing conference foes like Cincy and Louisville.

I guess my bottom line is that CUSA offers as much downside as it does upside for SLU. A new conference will be a good thing for SLU if a number of good private schools are also in the new conference.

[thetorch]

There is no reason SLU should be in the CUSA if it does not include Cincy, L'Ville, Marquette and DePaul. We have little connection to the other schools, the ones we do (Memphis, UAB, Charlotte) are not enough to keep us around.

It is easy to see we don't belong in the NASCAR league but where else can we go? What other conference is out there that 1. has similar scholastic reputations 2. Has good BBall programs? There aren't any that I can see right now. If we don't catch on with Marquette and DePaul in some other conference or create our own conference of like minded schools (doubtful), SLU will be banished to mid major hell.

[Quality Is Job 1]

I have to dispute your claim of seven bad games for SLU this season. UAB will be tough, if not upper echelon of C-USA, this season. For all we know, one of the other six teams could be surprises. Currently, C-USA is far better than most of the other viable (current) alternatives.

The value of C-USA is a decent shot of being an at-large selection in the NCAA Tournament with 18 wins.

[cheeseman]

Nark - a new conference as you have outlined would be good for SLU but leaving CUSA for a lesser conference still does not make sense and is not in SLU's best interest.

[slu72]

If CUSA loses the big 4, then the conference should go after schools like XU, Dayton, and Creighton, otherwise it's history. But I really think the biggest factor in any realignment is going to be the ACC again. Rumours down here have them going after a team twelve. Here are schools most oftened mentioned: South Carolina, Florida, Vanderbilt. Personally, I would hope it would be Syracuse, which fractures the Big East even more. If the ACC draws from the SEC, I would expect Memphis to make a big push to gain entry into the SEC. I also wonder if the arena plans aren't on hold until this conference thing is resolved once and for all. Bottom line all this uncertainty is not good for SLU.

[davidnark]

Leaving SLU right now doesn't make any sense. If, however, some combination of Marquette, DePaul, Cincy, and Louisville leave CUSA, then we need to find another solution. Except for guaranteed matchups against those four schools (and maybe Memphis), CUSA doesn't offer SLU much. Without two or more of those schools, CUSA would offer SLU little.

[davidnark]

The arena plans are NOT on hold. I would expect some news in the next month or so.

If the four schools leave, CUSA doesn't need to seek out Xavier, Dayton, etc. Those schools have no more business in a conference with the nascar schools than SLU does. In such a situation, SLU will need to leave CUSA and seek it future somewhere else. Whether that future is the A10, a modified Missouri Valley, the Big East, or a new midwestern conference is the real question.

[slu72]

Nark, I do agree with SLU being a bad fit for a watered down CUSA. I guess my point was, is CUSA going to sit back and take it in the ear from the Big East and disintergrate or are they going to get aggressive and go after schools. By the way, I don't know why, other than Pitino would like to make visits east, UL, UC, Marquette, and DePaul would think a move to the Big East would benefit them more than just keeping CUSA intact as is. I know Big East has that TV contract, but who knows what the future of that might be. Again, the best possible scenario for us would be for the ACC to admit 'Cuse.

[Schasz]

I think anyone that thinks the Gators would leave the SEC for a lesser conference has been smoking some of the chronic. Vandy is another matter as they have been the weakest link in all sports for years.

As far as SLU is concerned...no one really knows and it really depends on Fr. Biondi's focus on the matter of conference realignment. Off the top of my head, he had real input into our most recent conference moves, so I am still not sure it is time to get real worried.

[Lobo]

There hasn't been any news on the arena in some time. Maybe the pace has slowed and planning is behind schedule.

[davidnark]

I wouldn't presume that lack of news equals lack of progress.

[Taj79]

David, I agree with your overall assessement of the CUSA/NASCAR circuit should things happen. There are a number of problems and the major one of which is greatest concern to me is that SLU does NOT control it own destiny right now. Why?

For one, the Big East aggressor schools see SLU adding nothing to their conference. I've said this before ... we may as well be Gonzaga for that matter as far as the eastern perspectives are concerned. So we don't merit consideration as does DePaul (Chicago market) and Marquette (recent Final Four). Lousiville and Cincy are pretty much givens because of the football thing. We are on the outside looking in.

Without going along for the ride, it means either stay the same (CUSA) or change (evolve). We can't evolve to where most of us want to go (Papal Conference, etc.) because either the schools are in exodus (MU, DeP) or already involved with conferences that they are happy with (Creigh, Day, X, etc.). If the exodus goes, we are not in the same situation but it would be extremely difficult in my book to convert others to our way of thinking. We're the beggars on the street in that case and again onthe outside looking in.

CUSA only made sense when it involved the old Great Midwest band of brothers. That's over if the BE takes our four closest brothers. No way we can compete philospohically iwth Memphis and UAB. Case in point .. UAB just went Division I football. About the only group we can commiserate with is Charlotte ... but they are a public institution and we are private ... the marriage won't last and the geography will kill that sooner rather than later.

As for the arena, another idiotic statement and some insist on believing it .... the fool lives!

Finally, if you don't think football runs the NCAA roost ... look at I believe its Sports Illustrated college football rankings. Every school ranked is a BCS school. Pretty soon .. they'll figure out how to instill the same set of criteria to NCAA basketball. The rich will get richer .... we are on the outside looking in.

[billiken_roy]

taj said,

"Finally, if you don't think football runs the NCAA roost ... look at I believe its Sports Illustrated college football rankings. Every school ranked is a BCS school. Pretty soon .. they'll figure out how to instill the same set of criteria to NCAA basketball. The rich will get richer .... we are on the outside looking in."

no argument over who gets the pub and kudos, but that doesnt mean it is justified. i thought it was ironic that northern illinois handed the loss to maryland last week. my guess is that there are a number of non-bcs schools each year that are capable of winning the title only they will never be given the chance due to politics and the logistics of a true national championship tourney for football.

the fact is though that there are other northern illinois' out there that can compete at the bcs level. would ni be able to compete in the national title game? probably not, but the truth is they would never get a chance regardless. another reason i hate college football and their little elite club.

but then again, i am the guy that wants to let everyone in the ncaa basketball tourney.

[Mobile-iken]

Taj, I don't believe that Dayton and Xavier are very happy with the A10.

[Taj79]

I will go to my grave believing quite adamantly in the fact that ACC football sucks! The only schools that really play football in there right now are Florida State and Georgia Tech ... two retreads from eariler Metro days. Not real ACC schools.

Now, we can or will add Miami and VaTech to the list. Again not two true ACC schools. Yeah, yeah, Maryland, Wake, NCState, UNC and Virginia all manage to place a team or two in bowl games every year but CUSA had what, five bowl teams last year? Big Freakin' A!

Short of the ACC's now Big Four, we won't really ever seen anyone else come out of that conference much from now on and that also probably includes GaTech.

I rooted for Northern Illinois that night, broy. While I do like to enjoy an ACC basketball game, they can take their crap version of football and shove it. And to think their league and football are the reasons the dominoes are falling around college basketball is pathetic.

[Taj79]

I have never believed the A10 was their lot in life, Mac. I thought that when the Great Midwest folded into CUSA and we left Dayton behind as we did, that was the wrong thing to do. I've never been able to understand what both Dayton and X see in playing the crap of the A10 that is Duquesne, Fordham, Rhodey, Richmond and some of the others. Once they break east of the confluence of the Allegheny and Monongahela Rivers it makes no real sense to me ... not from a geography standpoint but also from a rivalry standpoint.

UMass, Temple and some of the others are okay but that's about it. And bringing those guys to the midwest makes no sense either. From a geographic stadnpoint, I always liked what SLU had in the MCC .... Indy, Cincy, Detroit, Chicago, even Oklahoma City .... but not totally enamored with all the schools .... Loyola, Oral Roberts, Evansville. The fact that the two schools we talk about here are in Ohio, and the last time I checked Ohio had little to do with the Atlantic Seaboard, has always puzzled me. Oh well.

But what we did to Dayton seems to be happening now to us now. The bigger brothers of the conference are all running off with the prom queen and her court and we are left out in the cold. This is what UD must have felt like all those years ago. Now we are scrambling to find someone to take us in. Maybe a downgrade .... that is the MVC talk we keep hearing. You can't tell me Dayton taking the A10 was an upgrade from what they had with us. I forget where X went after the MCC but the best games I remember were all those MCC games against X and Byron Larkin, Tyrone Hill and Company and all those games against Loyola when they were good with Andre Moore, Carl Goldstein, and others.

Again, I agree with nark but I just see us as the begagr at the window looking in right now. We don't bring mych to the table. And for those who keep thinking Biondi is the man and all that ... I have great respect for the good father, have talked with him on many occassions, and I can't see him having much to do in those conference meetings right now. You keep hearing how the commissioners and ADs are in charge. Meaning our fate is held more likely by Woolard than by Bionid IMHO. Not good as far as I can tell.

[tigerluke]

i'm going to have to go ahead and disagree about the state of acc football, and not only because i happen to be at an acc school, but because you have neglected to give some credit where credit is due. there are more football teams in the acc than simply florida state and georgia tech. i'd say that virginia has a real good chance at the acc title this year, and also nc state is a solid team. also the you can't count out my school (clemson) who is perpetually above 6 wins and in a bowl game (even if they choke) and does have a national championship under their belt (1981). certainly the acc is a basketball conference, but especially with the recent additions of va tech and miami it is quite solid in football, and actually should be this year without them.

[billiken_roy]

if you dont think that the respective school presidents wont have the final say in this, whole thing, i respectfully think you are being naive. imo, father biondi may not be on the ongoing scene, but my guess is he is directing woolard thoughts throughout the whole process just as the other school presidents are doing the same with their a.d.'s. kind of like in pretty women when richard gere and the old man sit in the conference room alone for 5 minutes cut their deal in principal and then gere tells george costanza to finish it up and walks out of the room. there are decision makers and their are project managers. biondi will call the shot. and if we end up in a lesser situation, i again believe that means he didnt really want this top 25 thing in the first place. personally, i would believe the arena project would already be on hold if there was even a chance this (a conference downgrade) was going on. my gosh, how can they in good conscience solicit tens of millions of dollars from faithful boosters knowing slu would soon be playing drake instead of marquette for example. you gotta have faith.

[Lobo]

I sure hope you are correct.

[Taj79]

Sorry, luke, how about we agree to disagree? While you are probably right about the Virginia and Ncstate chances for this year, so what? That happens every year. Some pretender comes out of the ranks of the downtrodden in the ACC to make a little noise. Maryland two years ago. I can tell you living up here in Maryland, the state has really gotten behind Twerp football since Large Ralph Friedgen came back into the fold (UMd grad). But I am betting right now that it will be fleeting and short-lived. UMd fans are as fickle as the winds that blow in DC.

Clemson's national title is about as history as the Billikens winning the NIT. Twenty plus years ago don't cut it in today's what-have-you-done-for-me-lately society. I think there are about maybe 10 schools that can reload year-after-year and go for the national title: Miami, Florida State, Ohio State, Mighigan, Oklahoma, Florida, Notre Dame, Texas and a few others. Clemson is not there. I wouldn't even rank Clemson in the second tier .... where they are around at least half the time in a ten year span ..... those schools are like Penn State, Nebraska, Wisconsin, Kansas State, USC, Colorado, Georgia, VaTech and probably some others I know I am missing. I would probably put most of the ACC schools in a third or fourth tier .... once in every decade they experience a magical run when all the planets align. I think they would be more appropraite in a fourth tier ... behind a third tier with the likes of Auburn, LSU, Alabama and some others. I would rank Clemson football along the same lines as the current Georgetown basketball progam .... living more on the laurels of the past than the present or future. But you never know, hope srpings eternal.

You are right, adding Miami and VaTech to the brood will make ACC football better. But not for the downtrodden that are the original ACC football programs. As a matter of fact, I think it will just make it more harder on teams like NCstate, Virginia and Maryland to rise up as regularly as they might now. They will have to play those big four ..... they might lose out playing Duke or Wake more times than not ... and those wins will now be losses. The rich eat the poor ...even in their own conferences.

I will, however, root for your team in those big games because, as I said above, I love it when the Northern Illinois of the world beat the big boys. Even in conference ... and I see Clemson being medicore in the conference more times than not. Six or seven wins a year. Some bowl game against some mediocre CUSA team. But no lofty heights. Just one guy's opinion ... worth not much neither here nor there.

[davidnark]

The arena is designed to service the university and its athletics programs for many decades. Conference affiliations may change multiple times within a single decade. The university should not (and likely will not) put the project on hold because it is uncertain what its conference affiliation will be in three years. In fact, by moving forward with the arena, SLU is positioning itself to have the best conference affiliation in the future.

(I am also not convinced that playing Drake is that much worse than playing Houston or Southern Mississippi. The fair comparision is would be playing Creighton v. playing Marquette.)

[billiken_roy]

david, drake as good as houston or so miss? come on. you need to go down to the mvc tourney the first night to see the bottom feeders this year. i guarantee you you wont see the equal of louis truscott or andre owen from houston or charles gaines from southern miss on the drake team. houston was overmatched in c-usa last year. imo they would have been middle of the pack at worst in the mvc. so miss would have been right behind the top echelon of the mvc.

[cheeseman]

It is not who the bottom feeders of CUSA are - all conferences have them. The key I would rather be playing bottom feeders in a top 7 conference then bottom feeders in a non-top conference.

[davidnark]

Houston, Southern Miss, and the other nascar programs may have more talent on their court than Drake, but the nascar programs are generally bad programs that play in miserable facilities with little or no fan base.

At SLU, we are trying to build a real college program with a true on-campus facility that is well supported by students, alumni, and local fans. In the long run, programs like Drake may have a better chance of developing a real college atmosphere than most of the nascar schools.

We need to be in a conference with schools that build programs (e.g., Marquette, Dayton), not schools that attempt to buy programs (e.g., Memphis, Louisville) and not schools with programs that have little fan support.

I do not want to see SLU land in a conference with a number of schools that are similarly situated to Drake, but I also hate the fact that we are in a conference that is plagued with nascar programs. The solution needs to lie somewhere in between, and Woolard needs to be assertive in finding it.

I am a fan of the A-10. I enjoy programs like Xavier, Dayton, St. Joseph's, and Temple. I would be happy if our future somehow involved the A-10 or some variation of it.