AB34 Posted January 4, 2006 Share Posted January 4, 2006 I couldn't quite figure it out from the endline seats. Sometimes they were sagging, other times trapping DB on the wing. Maybe it was an extended 2-3 and I'm partially blind. Either way, there was a stretch around the 13 minute mark where we were throwing crisp, fast passes which enable us to get he ball at the FT line then down to IV. Worked pretty well. After the media TO at 12, we seemed more passive in the zone offense. TL standing at the top of the key, no rhythm, etc. Same thing has been happening in most games this year. A couple minutes where the team is making solid basketball plays and then they just turn it off or lose it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGoat Posted January 4, 2006 Share Posted January 4, 2006 You should realize that when AD comes back, he and KL will be the point, TL slides back to the 3, and DB to the bench. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cowboy Posted January 4, 2006 Share Posted January 4, 2006 they were changing defenses a lot, several different zone looks were displayed i like to watch our opponents that use multiple defenses and our reaction to it i distincly remember one trip where they went from man to zone and TL was approaching mid court and shouting zone to his mates Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slu72 Posted January 4, 2006 Share Posted January 4, 2006 Someone said "coaches are laughing" if you say you can't drive into zones? Zones are set up to take away the inside...defenders move to the ball...where's a guy supposed to go then if he's got two 6'7" ers hanging all over him. Shades of Randy Pulley? Kicking it in quickly and then getting it out just as fast to an open perimiter guy is the key to breaking a zone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted January 4, 2006 Share Posted January 4, 2006 skip, your thinking is right on if the focus first and foremost is to get anyone an open shot. however, after the last few games, it appears our focus is to only get ian an open shot for the first 20 seconds or so. after that, whomever has the best look can go. no one has told me that, but the effort is to allow ian to make moves and post ups to get an open arm up and then give him the ball. thus the wait to see if he is open. if he doesnt successfully get an opening, then the pass is made to the next guard and ian makes another effort. i am not saying i agree with the above. that is my observation as to what is going on. especially versus zone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted January 4, 2006 Share Posted January 4, 2006 bbscout said, "Against the zone you must be patience and keep the ball moving quickly. If you are able to catch one defender slow to react to the ball movement then you might have a chance to penetrate but not very often and especially not vs a good zone. You just will not be able to get much penetration against a zone. Your best bet is to knock down some outside shots and make them switch to a man." i agree assuming the team hasnt been told they have to pass it to one individual. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted January 4, 2006 Share Posted January 4, 2006 what you think the best way to score against a zone is to drive and not pass ahead of the shifts? i didnt know that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scoop Posted January 4, 2006 Share Posted January 4, 2006 That's the point. If two guys are on you, someone's open. Yes, you pass it in and kick it out along with driving in, drawing the defense and kicking it out. That's how how you create favorable match ups. If you're going to break a zone by passing the ball only, good luck agaist Temple. Give it a rest. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted January 4, 2006 Share Posted January 4, 2006 but you admit that the actual "scoring" for the most part is generated by an advantage gained in PASSING against the zone. thank you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slu72 Posted January 4, 2006 Share Posted January 4, 2006 Read the Gordon article. Zones are set up to stop inside scoring and clog driving lanes. Granted if two men slide over to cover the driver we have to have an open man. But it ain't like this is a walkthrough at practice...it's game conditions moving at a much faster pace...therefore the time to find that open guy is very limited unless it's drilled over and over in practice where he's supposed to be, preferably wide open on the arc. Right now the way we're shooting the ball from outside, if I was an opposing coach, I wouldn't be worried about it. We can't make 'em if the hoop was a swimming pool. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scoop Posted January 4, 2006 Share Posted January 4, 2006 Freakin' read the post broy. I said from the original post that there are 2 ways to braek the zone. I stated you attack from passing and driving. You said you don't drive which is retarded. I never admitted anything. Its simple basketball. You always have to have the last word even when you are wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted January 4, 2006 Share Posted January 4, 2006 sure there are opportunities to drive anytime. but in general, you dont beat a zone by putting it on the floor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slufanskip Posted January 4, 2006 Share Posted January 4, 2006 You have to attempt to drive the ball inside ... but it has to be kicked out and reversed quickly. There are many ways to get the open looks ... but the ball has to move quickly with purpose. When the ball is sent in to Ian ... he needs to swing it out quicker on occasion also along with someone cutting to the hole without the ball(which rarely seems to happen) The defense needs to have more things to worry about then Ian scoring when he gets it. For example the ball is sent down to Ian low on the right side at the same time the guard on the left cuts to the hole ... Ian one touches the ball to the wing, who then swings it immediately up top ... for an open look or if covered swing s it back to either corner ... the passes have to be made quickly. It looks to me as if UB thinks we have a better chance to score by concentrating on getting the ball to Ian regardless of how many people sag on him then we would if we concentrate on creating open jump shots ... so that is what we do. He see's them practice every day so I will assume he is right. We are still so young ... we need to relax, we are ahead of almost everyone's expectations. Official Billikens.com sponsor of H. Waldman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kshoe Posted January 5, 2006 Share Posted January 5, 2006 the next game he won't get those open looks from 3 point land. they will dare Tommie, Dwayne and maybe even Kevin to hit those shots. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_nate Posted January 5, 2006 Share Posted January 5, 2006 the way to beat a zone is to find the open man, if you try and drive on a zone you will often get the ball stolen before you con kick it out. since the zone shifts with the ball often times there will be a guy open behind the defense. Thats where shooting comes in there will be lots of situations like last night where DB or another gaurd will be open in the corner for a trey. You need quick ball movement to force the defense out of position creating holes oor mismatches. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SLUMS81 Posted January 5, 2006 Share Posted January 5, 2006 In theory, zones are designed to force teams to shoot from the outside. When your team can't make a jump shot, what do you do? If all you do is slowly pass the ball around the perimeter, then throw up a shot near the end of the shot clock, you are doing exactly what the other team hopes you do. Where was the running and transition game Tuesday nite? If a slow-down offense is not working (and it clearly was not working), why are we not using our 'advantage' of a 4-guard, high velocity offense? We committed many more fouls than our opponents in the second half. Our offense simply did not challenge the St. Bonaventure defense enough to draw fouls down the stretch. I realize that the solution to all of this is for the guards to find their shooting stroke. I just wish we could show more creativity on offense, especially since we are likely to face zone defenses for the rest of the season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted January 5, 2006 Share Posted January 5, 2006 what so many are missing is the fact that the billikens are likely being told to wait for ian to make post moves inside. i.e. swinging the ball around the horn quickly doesnt necessarily find ian. if the idea was as it should be for the offense to find the open man, any man, to score, then we are all correct. however, in our case, i am betting the idea is to find ian open, at least for the first look at the basket. that is why the offense looks bogged down. we are too one dimensional. if someone else would step up as a consistent mid to deep shooter, then that could all change plus make life easier for ian. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheA_Bomb Posted January 5, 2006 Share Posted January 5, 2006 As the self appointed lead basketball analyst of Billikens.com, I feel the need to settle this argument about how to beat a zone. It may come as a surprise to some of you that most of you are correct. Here are the ways to beat a zone defense: 1. Fast Break- score before the zone is set 2. Use good spacing- 3 pt shooters behind the 3 pt line 3. Move the Ball- pass from ball side to weakside and in and out ball moves faster than the zone 4. Reverse the Ball 5. Be a triple threat- player with the ball squares to basket and is a threat to shoot, drive or pass 6. Split the Zone- outside players move into seams in the zone and within shooting range 7. Draw and Kick- penetrate between defenders to draw your team-mates defender to you and create an open passing lane to your team-mate 8. Send cutters through to the weak side b/c defenders will struggle to watch cutter and ball simultaneously 9. Show patience, poise and good shot selection- fatigue the defense 10. Attack the offensive boards I have to admit that I didn't know all these off the top of my head they came from Dr. Hal Wissel, Assistant Coach of the Memphis Grizzlies and President of Basketball World, INC in his book pages 185-186 of "Basketball: Steps to Success." 1994, Human Kinetics, Champaign, IL. For more on Dr. Wissel visit: http://www.motivational-celebrity-speakers.../halwissel.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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