Who Is Going To Score Next Yr (Part II) ...

[Taj79]

....this has been bugging me since the thread died down a few weeks ago. A lot of the notes I read talked about Lisch and Liddell ... and how much better we are going to be. I see another thread evolving on here by bill4life or something where he talks about us contending for the A-10 crown next year. I'll say it again, please use extreme caution when you make these statements or you are setting up for a repeat of this year.

Why? Some seem to belive that Liddell is the second coming of Hughes. One word: RickyCranford. Remember him? The poor man's Larry Hughes according to great talent evaluator Charlie Spoonhour. Frankly, when some like broy and Jalesndad say what they say about Tommie, I keep hearing this phrase from Spoon. I'll be the first to admit that I've never seen Tommie play and for all I know the pundits may be right. But given our track record, I again believe caution is the course of the jalopy here (and make no bones about it .. this ain't no cadillac in my eyes).

Same goes for Lisch .. now with a knee injury to worry about. I am truely frightful that if we don't get some sort of return on our investment for the two open scholarships that we have right now, next year will be no different than this year. i liek where Ian seems to be going but with JJ or Newborne as our four, well, scared is an understatement, frankly.

You can prove just about anything you want with stats, but our history as a program seems consistent enough with our stats. Over the course of the last 30 or so years, do you know how many of our freshmen or JUCOs have made either the CUSA, Great Midwest or Midwestern Cities or Metro All Whatever teams as freshmen or JUCOs? Exactly 13 ... or about one every other year then plus some. Going backwards in time, they are: Bryant, Hughes, Baniak, Biles, Cobbin, Walker, Dobbs, Tony Brown, Gray, Newberry, Vincent Smith, Burns and Henderson. Of those, all were freshmen execpt Bryant, Dobbs, Newberry, Burns and Henderson. So the nubmers are even less impressive when you divide them up over freshmen and JUCOs/transfers. They drop to 8 freshmen and 5 of the others. What does that mean? To me, that our track record is as abysmal as our overall team sucess record. And now folks want to believe that two freshmen guards are going to improve us by leaps and bounds to the point that some think we can contend for the A-10? Pour me a cup of that kool-aid.

Of those 13, who had fabulous, Billiken Hall of Fame careers? I'd say Gray on the four-year end; Burns and Henderson on the JUCO end. That's about it. Bryant got hurt. Hughes was one-and-done. Baniak regressed. Biles and Smith left and the others are iffy at least. Maybe Dobbs gets in and Cobbin I think is a 1,000 point career scorer so you be the judge.

Speaking of regressed, I mentioned Bryant and his injury so I think he gets cut some slack. But he scored 459 total points for us last year. So about 500 points is a good year. Of all our JUCOs, only one, Dobbs with 501, did that coming in. No Love. No Jeffers. I find that amazing. As for other top numbers, only Burns with 17.4 is in the top five in junior scoring average and HWaldman made it at #3 in three-pointer-made in a junior season.

Drejaj will pick it up folks say. Actually, AD has been the model of consistency as far as his scoring totals go in the last three years. In his freshman year, he scored 206 points. Last year it was 208. this year it was 196. That's inthe range of 200 or so points per year and if you play 30 games, taht's about 6.7 per game. For those of you advocating AD is picking it up next year, I'd say your betting the house on a three-legged horse in a starting gate between Secretariat and Smarty Jones. But its your house.

In my opinion, this cupboard is pitfully barren. We are the mouse on the floor in the house at Christmas just as the Grinch leaves. About the best thing I can think of right now is "it ain't CUSA." And hallelujah it ain't the Big East either.

If we were 9 and 21 with three "dependable" seniors coming back -- Bryant, Frericks, Ohanon -- what the heck are we with NO dependable seniors coming back? We are, right now in my estimation, where I thought we'd be when Romar left. There is little returning and what's coming in, while providing hope, is sparse (remember only two guard recruits) and young. to me, thee is a lot riding on these two open scholarships and if Brad doesn't fill them with something that can do something in the right here and now, I can't see double digits wins being put up unless the schedule is extremely weak and loaded with tons of crappy home games.

Over the course of our history, the top five freshmen averages have been Hughes (20.9), Douglas (14.5 -- who didn't make the all-freshmand team with Gray that year), Willie Becton (13.9), Rickey Frazier (13.7 -- one and done), and HMark (13.2). You want me to believe that not one BUT two incoming freshman are going to put down enough to move these somewhat impressive guys off that list. Outsid eof Hughes (1999), the last freshman to do that was Highmark (1992) with Gray and Douglass in the early 80's and Becton in 1980 or so.

[slu72]

Taj, I share your anxiety about next year.. No way can we be excited about the prospect of AD being the man to go to for scoring punch. He's a Junior and if he was going to have a break out year the signs should have been evident this past season with RB's injuries and absences. Didn't happen. The returnees avg ppg is 36.5, with Meyer and IV leading the pack at 6.9. Now we would hope given a summer of intensive work this will improve next year. Both DP and LM were big scorers in hs, hopefully some of this attitude will resurface. It has to if we are to have any shot at a winning record next year. And right now with what we have at the #4, the bulk of our scoring is going to have to come from the perimiter group and IV. You watch the NCAA's and you see kids stroking the 3 with ease and you wonder why not us? And these kids play for Winthrop, Pacific, UWM, etc. UB supposedly is on the hunt for a wing that can shoot 3's, which leads me to believe he doesn't think KL and TL are 3 pt threats. From what I read here, that is not TL's and KL's strength. If we don't have a legit threat to hit 3's we could see our scoring avg even be lower than this year, as teams will pack their defense and challenge us to shoot it. Then we'll have to rely on the athleticism of our bigs and TL to score inside, which is not our strength either. Won't say the sky is falling yet, but UB has to come up with immediate helpers with these next two scholies...an inside athletic guy and a wing with a decent 3 point shot. If he doesn't, we're looking at another long frustrating season of close games in the low 60s and 50s.

[willie]

I'm in the expectations business. When everybody is bullish the market is ready to slide. When everybody is pessimistic the market is ready to go up. I for one like all the negative talk about next year. Just the opposite of last year, and everyone's 20 win season picks. Keep the negativity coming.

[billiken_roy]

the ricky cranford comment is valid. from an outside the area fan, i totally understand your issues. i too remember spoon taking us down that path. and if you remember, he did the same with "greg hardin" a few years before that. it is my understanding, spoon never saw either ever play a game before they set foot on campus. he was relying in both case on the word of street agents and aau coaches.

the first time i saw either, i was dumbfounded. my glimpse at hardin was at a midnight madness practice. he looked more like a cook at a barbeque restaurant than a basketball player and was winded after two trips down the floor. of course he redshirted and never played a single game as a billiken.

cranford got into one of the exhibition games right at the end of the game. again i was dumbfounded. he was far from being a college talent and i left that game more p!ssed at spoon than ever before.

so again i understand what you are saying.

the difference though is i have seen both liddell and lisch play and i have seen them a lot. trust me, they arent cranford and hardin. lisch on one knee is better than cranford ever was. and liddell, while he is NOT larry hughes, imo is the most talented freshmen we will have brought in the last 25 years except larry hughes.

i know it is tough to pin our hopes for next year on two freshmen, but sadly i think that is close to being true. but they wont be doing it by themselves. as bad as this team finished, i am more excited about the freshmen and sophomores that will be sophomores and juniors next year than i have been for a long time. it was a good group that sadly was asked to do too much this year because of the injuries to frericks and bryant. thus players that would have just been support players normally, were asked to accomplish more than they should have had to do. and thus that inexperience stood out.

but one thing you are stating is true. drejaj and newborne arent going to take us very far. both should be nice 6th or 7th men, and it appears both will be starters. so it wont surprise me if we struggle to get near 500. that said, who knows what the likes of vouyoukas, brown, polk, meyer, lisch and liddell will do. there is a lot of young talent on the team and team chemistry is a weird thing. if this group gells they could surprise. it would be nice to have the likes of curtis withers in our frontcourt. but i am a realist and other than bonner, we havent had that guy in 25 years, so i aint holding my breath on justin johnson turning into him or one of our two scholarships being that person.

i am content to wait. wait and see how serious these guys take the summer.

[billiken_roy]

lisch shoots the 3 very well. dont know where you got the idea he wasnt a shooter. his greatest strength is creating his opportunity and pulling up for midrange stuff, but he has big time range actually.

[slu72]

Broy, as to KL shooting the three, guess I just got the overall impression from posters that the 3 wasn't what he was noted for ala a Drake Diener. I hope UB and he are talking about him practicing it ... alot...once his knee heals because maybe even more than a PF we need a legit 3 pt threat. Whether it's him, LM, DP, DB, DC, I don't care. In fact, I think Spoon made the comment during the UAB retro game, that DP was an excellent 3 shooter in hs. Please regain it DP. The ability to shoot 3's consistently is the most potent weapon in the college game today, because it opens up the floor and spreads the D thin. Look at Duke, without Reddick this year they may have struggled to make the dance. Or look at our game against UC, we packed it and shut down Maxiell and their other big, but then bang they start hitting the 3 and we're down by 20+. As much as I like RB, I don't think the 3 was the mainstay of his game. He hit some, but still saw him as more of a slasher pull up type of guy. When did SLU have it's greatest success? When we had three guys who could pop the 3, Clagget, Highmark, and H....hell we didn't have an inside guy over 6'6" and we made the dance two years running and pushed a really good WF team with Tim Duncan. With IV coming on strong and hopefully improves over the summer, I can even see this team starting 4 guards next year if the much desired #4 is not found or VN and JJ do not prove to be the answer. I can see either LM or DB starting with TL, KL, and DP.

[billiken_roy]

kevin lisch is not a one dimensional player. so of course no one is going to label him as a 3 point shooter. imo, the healthy kevin lisch's greatest attribute is he is an all around player. you need someone to be a josh fisher defender? in high school, it was the rare game kevin didnt guard the oppostion's best player. you need someone to be the point guard and lead a team through a press? kevin lisch always had the ball in high school if the game was on the line or the defense turned up the heat. you need someone to foul out the kid on the other team with 4 fouls? guess who would be driving to the basket right at that kid next time down the floor? you need someone to hit a couple of threes late in the game to get back in a game, kevin shoots the three as good as anyone.

granted this is on the high school level, but he has played at equal levels or better against some damn fine players in the last 4 years. about the only player i saw get the better of kevin was dan ruffin when kevin was a freshmen and ruffin was a senior at peoria central. ruffin was just to strong and fast for him. ruffin is now the point guard at bradley and kevin is 4 years older and stronger and wiser. i would love to see the rematch.

while i like drake diener, imo, provided he recovers from this knee injury, lisch will be better than drake diener.

[Jalensdad2002]

This has been bugging me since the thread died down a

few weeks ago. A lot of the notes I read talked about Lisch

and Liddell ... and how much better we are going to be.

After this past 9 win season one can only hope SLU will do better. I don't see all the negative things such as key injuries happening again. I don't expect a 20 win season, however I'm shooting for a .500 season. Anything above that is gravy.

______________________________________________________________________

Why? Some seem to belive that Liddell is the second coming

of Hughes. One word: RickyCranford. Remember him? The

poor man's Larry Hughes according to great talent evaluator

Charlie Spoonhour. Frankly, when some like broy and

Jalesndad say what they say about Tommie, I keep hearing

this phrase from Spoon.

You will never hear me compare Tommie to Larry Hughes. Totally different ballplayers. Larry as we know was playing with a mission. He had a younger brother with serious medical needs. So his play I believe was heavily influenced by that situation. Tommie is totally different. He is playing to his own beat, once he get into a real coaching environment you will then begin to see the results. Will he ever become the scorer of Hughes, don't know, but I believe Liddell to be the superior athlete as this stage of their careers.

Ricky Cranford who the h is that. I have never heard of him. How tall is he,what position did he play. What was his stats coming out of HS. Do your own homework. Stop relying on the opinions of others.

______________________________________________________________________

I'll be the first to admit that I've never seen Tommie play.

This is where your comments should have ended. If you haven't seen neither play how can you give an honest analysis. What criteria would you use to determine the potential abilities of a given player.

1.) Opinions from recruiting experts

Do a google search and note how the experts from scout.com,rivals.com,

& hoopmasters.com give him high marks.

2.)Performances in big time events

Liddell has a proven track record from HS, AAU, Shoe camps,& now prep school that demonstrates his abilities to perform at a high level under pressure.

3.) Wins/losses

The best thing I can say about Tommie is that he has never played on a team that didn't finish with at least a 10 game record over .500.

As as starter from HS to Prep School Tommie's teams have a record of 94-24. I don't believe this to be by happenstance.

____________________________________________________________________

But given our track record, I again believe

caution is the course of the jalopy here (and make no bones

about it .. this ain't no cadillac in my eyes).

I'm of the belief Soderberg is going after beter players than years past. So don't judged Soderberg so harshly this early in his career.

No next years team is not a Caddy. Far from it, more like a Pontiac, and anyone from the inner-city knows what the acronym for Pontiac stands for.

______________________________________________________________________

[Basketbill]

it is not uncommon to see Dwayne's shooting difficulty develop in the transition from high school to College. The speed of all the defenders is increased and what was an open three in high school, quickly becomes a defensed 3 in college. A new shooting background and the fact that there is more importance placed upon each shot is a psychological hit too.

with practice Dwayne will get better, but now he will have to work at it hard. No reason he cannot improve

[kwyjibo]

I don't think Billiken history is much of a guide to understanding how good Lisch or Liddell will be unless you look at players who came from similar HS situation. And I don't think how good Lisch or Liddell will eventually be is a good guide for how the whole team plays together next year.

I cannot speak about Lisch. I did see Liddell play once this year and while I am no general expert he did a lot of things that will translate very well to D-1 ball. The most impressive thing I saw in Liddell was his ability to see the court, truly exceptional. I think concerns about his shooting in D-1 are warranted but at the sime tame this is one skill that is coachable/drillable; seeing the court is very hard to teach. Also, I think he got a lot done against pretty good competition which should count for something.

There are some holes and question marks as always, but I have seen enough A-10 ball to know we will competitive next year. I have no idea how many victories that will translate into and frankly don't think anyone can at this stage. Too many things can and will happen before the end of next year.

>Over the course of our history, the top five freshmen

>averages have been Hughes (20.9), Douglas (14.5 -- who

>didn't make the all-freshmand team with Gray that year),

>Willie Becton (13.9), Rickey Frazier (13.7 -- one and done),

>and HMark (13.2).

This is incorrect. Monroe Douglas was not only on the All-Freshman team but MONroe was AP Newcomer of the Year (not Roland). Roland was second team all-Conference in his second year but Monroe was not honored. In their junior years Monroe was second team and Roland was left out. In their senior years it was reversed again!

I had forgotten that Tony Brown made all-freshman way back when but it was clear from the first time I ever saw him (and his 37 ppg high school average) that he was not a big time player. It is hard to judge how scoring alot against small schools is going to translate to D-1.

http://horizonleague.collegesports.com/spo.../110304aac.html

[jjray]

I understand the concern when the two leading scorers leave a 9 win team and I also understand the uneasiness in relying upon freshmen to rescue the ship; however, I think the situation is not as dire as stated above. Here are my reasons:

(a) Does anyone out there not believe that Dwayne Polk will be better next season than this? It was baptism by fire last year but, by the end of the year, he was playing much better ball. He started hitting his outside jumpers, his free throw shooting improved, and turnovers went down (have to check the stats on the last one but I believe it is the case). The point: Dwayne showed marked improvement in his biggest problem areas over the course of the season. I have to believe he'll work on that outside shot over the summer. Also, some added weight will help him to be stronger on the ball in traffic.

( shooting guard. OK, Reggie is gone. But the Reggie of the 2004-2005 season was not the Reggie from the prior season. We do have great freshman guards coming in but we do not have to live or die with the freshman. We have Danny Brown, Luke Meyer and Darren Clarke to carry the load at guard if the freshman do not take to D-1 as quickly as we wish. All three of these guys are tall guards who can play 2 or 3. Brown especially intrigues me--athletic, handles the ball well, and has shown he has an outside shot. He's problem last year was inconsistency and occasional ill-advised drives into traffic. I expect this kid to be more consistent and smarter next year with the added experience.

© PF. When JJ has been on the floor in 2005, he has acquitted himself well. I have no fears about giving him 25 minutes a game. One would expect 8 points per game, solid defense, run the floor well, and rebound his position. This guy's skill-set is one of the best we have had at PF in the last 10 years. Yeah, everybody is nervous because of reports of "lack of focus" and coach suspended him last season. Valid concern but nearly every team in the land has a key player with some sort of off-court issue. It goes with the territory. My concern at PF is the lack of an adequate backup. I really can't see Newborne getting 20 minutes per game at 4. He just isn't big enough or rebound enough for that. We need a prep-school 4 physically mature enough to give us minutes next season (i.e., no project). If we get such a player, I'm much more comfortable about the PF position. If we don't, then I'll worry. It's too early right now to freak about it.

(d) Center. All Ian has to do is give us what he did at the end of last season--12 points per game, make his free-throws, clog up the middle on defense, rebound his position. Having a center who can score inside when the offense is struggling makes a world of difference. Ian is going to be that guy. Bryce as the backup center ... OK, some question-marks there but the kid has shown more mobility than Ian and that he will block shots when on the floor.

[TEE]

talent wise, we will have a better team next season, does that translate to a better record, that is too be determined. in terms of who is going to score, I look to the interior post first. I am comfortable in saying that when Ian is on the floor, our post offense will run through him. Ian, I think, is developing nicely into a solid D1 center that will be a real force in the next two seasons. I think that by the middle of next season is when we will see Ian really take off. I think Ian's numbers will be about 12-17pts and 8 rebounds, with many points coming at the line. The 4's job, VN/JJ/??, will be to play good defense, screen on offense, and attack the glass. the backcourt has some real talent. DP needs to realize that this is his team, esspecially when he is on the floor. What I mean as the point, he needs to take what is turing into a seriously talented group of young men an get em' all fluid. I'm not sure how to say it, he doesn't need to be a scoring threat, other than knock down an open shot, pull up on the break, and make his FT's. DB/LM have already shown their positive upside. DB can be a 15pt guy, heck coming from prep school he has a year on other sophmores. KL/TL bring new an exciting things to the table. I love that Tommie will be a year older than other freshman. I'm not that worried about Kevin, sports medicine is pretty damn good these days. Understanding that he has a great work ethic, there is no doubt in my mind that he will be ready come October. I am not really going to say anything about certain players who have been here prior to last season. They are not going to take us anywhere. This group of freshmen, sophmores and juniors are a solid foundation. What this all means in terms of W's and L's, we'll just have too wait until November.

[cheeseman]

Great thread - 1. Ricky Cranford was a disappointment and I think Roy is correct, Spoon only saw tape on him but was desperate. RC did come with high recommendations from others but the real problem with him was he was not very bright - some would say he could not pour p*ss out of a boot with directions on the heel. He simply could not learn the game and grasp what was expected of him on the court or in the classroom. 2. DP has to shoot more when he is open and I believe he will. As someone said earlier, he had a lot on his plate this year and the truth is he should not have found himself in this position - the loss of Alexander and Morris were regrettable. 3. I agree, I have no qualms of giving significant minutes to JJ next year. I understand that he has to work during practice but this kid can play if he will only be given a chance by Brad. 4. VN - his playing big minutes will only work if we have others who are scoring - I see VN primarily as a defensive support player with some limitations and if we are having trouble scoring again he is a luxury - JJ can play the same defense and will score much more. 5. AD - nothing more can be said about him that has not already been said. Anybody who expects him to be better than this year is fooling themselves - as was pointed out earlier - his three years here has been very consistent so what you see is what you get and I am not interested in him playing big minutes. Some of you are correct - next year we should be better but how much more is the question. We need to continue to grow by letting our young players get the floor time and VN and AD can support as needed. Sorry, our future is not with them. 6. RB, TF, IO - as Roy has said numerous times - RB and IO should never have been put in the position of carrying the team - so once that happened we were in trouble and it showed. TF - he could have been a good center for us but even if he had not gotten hurt, I am not sure him being 100% would have translated into that many more victories. What we learned this year is that our seniors were not the players we had been used to seeing as senior leaders on this team and VN was not an upgrade at all so what we saw was the fruits of Brad having to grab what he could to fill voids at the last minute early in his time here. What he does this spring and fall recruiting will be VERY IMPORTANT and will tell us where we will be in 2-4 years.

[Basketbill]

"What we learned this year is that our seniors were not the players we had been used to seeing as senior leaders on this team and VN was not an upgrade at all so what we saw was the fruits of Brad having to grab what he could to fill voids at the last minute early in his time here."

I think this is a key to the billikens future. Thicks talked about "letters" returning in the past and this is the point.

Our recruiting strategy will not survive if we are constantly expecting a Carmelo Anthony to come in and rescue the team as a juco, or freshman one and done player. We must get the players who will over three and four years be able to support the team on both sides of the ball. I think Brad is planning to get four year players every year, sure I hope some are talented enough that they will entertain leaving early, but in two years when LM, DB, DP, BH, are juniors, and Ian a senior, we will be in an excellent position to make a run for the A-10 and who knows. I will down grade my hopes for next year to hope NIT simply because I do not want to be dissappointed next year.

I recall spoon telling the players once, "look around the room the people to come in and make this team better are sitting next to you"

Go to work boys

While I hope for an impact PF, i expect a freshman who maybe overpowered and have to back up JJ or VN for a year.

Izik had only 2.5 years under his belt, we only had a healthy reggie for one year, and tom less than that.

[Taj79]

.. but rights reserved. For all that you that replied to this, I thinkit safe to say that I respect all of your handles and read your comments on almost everything (as opposed to some other idiots I won't even open). So not only are the comments appreciated they carry some weight. So again thanks.

To Jalensdad ..... I never judged TL's ability. As you noted, and as I said, I've never seen him play. My comment on him is based on the history of this program ... and comments made about others that were somewhat overstated. Forgive me if I am equating that to these two apparently fine young men but I've been burned way too much in the past. You can say all you want about Dwayne Polk leading his high school team to ... what, three straight state titles or whatever. Now, he's leading a 9 and 21 college team. Given Billiken history, that's about right. I am not knocking TL as I said, I don't know ... but history in this jalopy being what it is .... as I think Tee said "we'll see in November."

Kwyjjbo noted something about Monroe Douglass ... all my stats came from the Billiken media guide .... either I missed that one or its not in there. I was certainly surprised not to see it and I checked it twice at least. Maybe its somewhere else and I missed it. Oh well ... I was supposed to be at work and Madness is running full tilt so ... you miss a few. Even if we acknowledge that, that one note does not change the overall history as stated.

Lots of guys are talking about IV turning things on and I hope so. But others have noted on this board that the new league .. the A-10 .. is a guard dominated league. Look at Dayton who had 8 freshmen this year. I believe only 1 (some kid with a Hispanic name, I think) was an interior player. All the others were wing or guard players. I thikn Ian will be an oddity in the A-10 ... a big big man. But if all the other teams are playing fast high flyers, Soderberg has a matchup decision to make. i don't think IV matches up with where we are going .. which won't matter if we impose our will and game style over th eopponent. But fall behind and I think IV sits while other matchups are employed.

Thanks to all ... I'll slink off this topic for the rest of the year ... promise. My points were raised.

So which one of us geniuses picked BOTH Vermont and Bucknell?

[tseugnekillib]

taj stated.... "the A10 is a guard dominated league".....after watching the first eight games of A10 post-season tournament, no one should think that the A10 is void of talented and large post-players. Nearly all A10 teams went with three perimeter players and two post players, but there are more quality post-players in the A10, than in the MVC for example.

Xavier started 6-8 jr.Brian Thornton (a Vandy transfer); and 6-9 soph. Justin Doellman. Temple started 6-11 soph. Wayne Marshall; 7-1 jr. Keith Butler; and 6-8 jr. Antywane Robinson; St. Joes started 6-11 jr. Dwayne Jones and 6-10 jr. Dave Mallon. Richmond started a 6-11 center named Kevin Steenberge and 6-8 fr. Jarhon Giddings. Rhode Island had four guys in the 6-8 to 6-10 range who rotated. GWU had the best big guy in the league, 6-9 jr. Pops Mensah-Bonsu. Dayton had a 6-11 soph named Cripe and started a 6-8 freshman named Alvarez (or Gonzalez or Rodriquez....something like that).

Yes, the A10 had quality guards, but they also had some size, with all of the good ones being underclassmen. In fact, with few exceptions, the talent in the A10 is with its underclassmen.

[3star_recruit]

With Charlotte coming in and GW, St. Joe's, Dayton and Xavier and returning a lot of people from 17-22 win teams, I expect four NCAA bids out of that group next year. We're gonna take our lumps.

[tseugnekillib]

If Curtis Withers returns for his senior season, Charlotte may be the pre-season favorite in the A10. As seen with this year's selection, the A10 is going to have to do well in the pre-season games to assure four bids.

[Basketbill]

that was my impression of the A-10 yeah a down year, but watch out as these kids develop

[TEE]

charlotte has a very good team, but if their coach leaves for UT, yeah rockytop, then they lose a big part of their mix. like him or not bobby lutz is a good coach, albeit a cry baby.

[Taj79]

... while the former offers definite proof to his rebuttal, I am not saying there is no bulk in the A-10. But I don't recognize any of the guys listed as anything more than guys who started. If we're listing guys who started or played, I suspect our team can come back with a 6'10"-er, a 6'8"-er and a 6'6"-er. What I am saying is that, for the most part, the A-10 is a wing/gurad league or at least has been over recent history. Sato. Chalmers. Marshall. Dalonte West. Nelson. Carroll. Sanchez. Sure, I am not discounting a Dvid West but I am only offering that those type of players are far and few between in our new conference. Our previous conference had both ... Maxiell, Martin, White, those bookend Bulls in SoFlorida. And the guards wer ejust as impressive at time.

As for the latter, thanks for saying we will take lumps .... I just find it more than scary that some folks think we .... SAINT LOUIS UNIVERSITY ... is bringing anything outstanding to our new digs just right now. Short of maybe beating some of their also-rans at home next year, where are the wins going to come from to help us dominate as a few might suggest? Hope springs eternal .. so too does some lunacy.

[Mobile-iken]

Roy, previously you compared Lisch to Travis...Now you are comparing him to Drake? I would rather have a Travis clone.

[Schasz]

Agreed that next year at best is a show me...work in progress sort of wait and see. Our returning players need to improve and we need immediate help from at least a couple of our incoming players in order for the '05-'06 version of our SLU Billikens to have their heads above the .500 water mark. While I am not saying it is impossible, there are a lot more ?'s marks than sure things and many of the ?'s must break our way if we are going to have a winning season.

[3star_recruit]

Lisch is a tough, physical guard that can penetrate and also stroke it, especially off the dribble. I think he's more like Kiwane Garris than either of the Dieners. In any case his life is going to be miserable next year if someone else doesn't develop the confidence to hit open 17-20 footers. You can't beat good teams with one perimeter shooter.

[Basketbill]

I view the A10 as solid leauge but the best team are a step below the best teams in CUSA, with St. Joe's last year being an anomaly. So overall our conference schedule will be easier, still solid but No louisvilles or cinci games......

That said, I think their is reason to believe we can compete game in game out. while there are many question marks, we are due to have a few of these break our way.

Perhaps next year we might even get some favorable calls at home!!