coachstyles Posted March 13, 2005 Share Posted March 13, 2005 ive read post about us recruiting this kid from vashon. just wondering was he playing in vrs PB tonight or in the stands watching it? we need to go after tylers brother ben hansbrough instead i dont think i heard bobbys name once in the game and we offered him a scholarship? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alonzo P Hawk Posted March 13, 2005 Share Posted March 13, 2005 i don't think we stand a chance for a second with ben hansborough. throughout the game, the commentators on fox sports midwest told tales of how competitive the two hansboroughs are. supposedly they can't even play one on one anymore because it always ends up in a fistfight. watching the game, ben seemed to be a very, very competitive individual, and i doubt he would want to go to slu after his older brother is taken by north carolina. hope i'm wrong, but... ------------------------------------------------------------ *Official Billikens.com sponsor of Mike Beczkala Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quality Is Job 1 Posted March 13, 2005 Share Posted March 13, 2005 ...was impressive in last night's championship game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Box and Won Posted March 13, 2005 Share Posted March 13, 2005 I think McLaughlin also mentioned that SIUC has already offered Ben H. a scholarship. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted March 13, 2005 Share Posted March 13, 2005 i totally disagree. the likes of a tyler hansborough makes the other kids around him better. i would probably take the athleticism and potential of every one of vashon's starters before i would take ben hansborough. what is sad is that the vashon kids are just wild animals. they are taught nothing fundamentally. but some of the stuff they do on instinct and straight athleticism cant be taught. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted March 13, 2005 Share Posted March 13, 2005 ben is not near good enough to receive the offers and play at say a north carolina. i will be shocked if he ends up more than an mvc player. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3star_recruit Posted March 13, 2005 Share Posted March 13, 2005 "what is sad is that the vashon kids are just wild animals. they are taught nothing fundamentally." Johnny Hill and James Washington are not top flight athletes. They are effective offensive precisely because they are fundamentally sound players. Same with the skinny 6'4/6'5 interior players that they use to great effect against bigger and equally athletic out-of-state opponents year after year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted March 13, 2005 Share Posted March 13, 2005 i disagree 3 star. of course this is the first time i have watched this vashon team, but i saw all of the vashon players show a hell of a lot more speed and quickness and jumping ability throughout the night than popular bluff with the exception of tyler. maybe watching tyler at the same time skews your perception. he is a once in a lifetime player. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3star_recruit Posted March 13, 2005 Share Posted March 13, 2005 There are some Vashon players that are very good to great athletes and they are some that are not. Luke Meyer is as athletic as Johnny Hill is. Borgia's point guard Alex Moosman is quicker than James Washington. I think if people weren't so blinded by Vashon's mystique they would see that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davidnark Posted March 13, 2005 Share Posted March 13, 2005 >what is sad is that the vashon kids are just wild animals. >they are taught nothing fundamentally. That is ignorant and absurd. Vashon one 60-something straight games playing fabulous defense and team basketball. Floyd is a fabulous coach and drills fundamentals. Washington and Powell played undersized much of the season, but still routinely outplayed their counterparts using great fundamental skills. Our own Dwayne Polk is a very fundamentally sound ballplayer. Anthony Bonner was a fabulous fundamental basketball player. Last night it was proven that a single player can be so good that he renders a top-flight opponent's game plan worthless. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted March 13, 2005 Share Posted March 13, 2005 dwayne polk is exactly my argument. he is about the most diamond in the rough player that i have ever seen. the level of his basketball iq increased dramatically this year. the first half of this season he was fairly clueless on how to play point guard. and only by year end did he seem to do more that race the ball down the floor. sorry, i fail to see where floyd irons is that spectacular of a teaching coach. he gets the players and wins games sheerly on superior talent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted March 13, 2005 Share Posted March 13, 2005 i wouldnt have made those statements without the fact that the entire game vashon was all about reaching grabbing, poking, no blocking out, wild threes immediately down the floor in the third quarter, etc. if you all want to call that "good fundamentals", then you all learned basketball differently than i did. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taj79 Posted March 13, 2005 Share Posted March 13, 2005 ... if proof is in the pudding, then how come Vashon kids don't go anywhere after their high school days are over? Sure, you can name Dwayne Polk, Jimmy McKinney, Anthony Bonner, Anthony Jones, and probably one or two more ... but Bonner was in high school after my college time .... so over 20 or 25 years, I'm listing four players or so above. Fundamentally sound? Sorry, david, I don't buy that .... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjray Posted March 13, 2005 Share Posted March 13, 2005 >>what is sad is that the vashon kids are just wild animals.<< Did you really mean to say this Roy? It's a rather ridiculous statement. Fine, you did not enjoy the frenetic tempo that Floyd wishes to push the game into (which breaks down all structure to offense or defense). But Vashon has to play this way to win against superior teams. Powell is not much of a center for the supposed best team in the nation much less the best team in the state. Tyler H. just destroyed Vashon. Did Powell even score last night? Also, PB had several solid outside shooters to add an outside game to the inside. Floyd had to turn it into a street ball game (allowing his kids to exploit their team quickness). I have no problem with that. The object is to win the game, not put on a pretty disciplined performance. But calling the kids "wild animals"? That's rude and uncalled for. Specifically critique the play instead of lobbing insulting labels at these kids. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3star_recruit Posted March 13, 2005 Share Posted March 13, 2005 The issues with Vashon players are primarily academic. Same with East Side. Also, 5'8/5'9 guards with good, not great athleticism, and 6'4 power forwards don't exactly translate to the college game. Polk is the athletic exception for the tiny guards. Joel Shelton, Jesse Akins, James Washington, etc. are the norm. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billikan Posted March 14, 2005 Share Posted March 14, 2005 Roy, I don't know what got you going over the past two days but you are sure angry! I have seen Vashon play several times and I think it is insulting and completely uncalled for to refer to them as wild animals. They are young men who play hard and who do not get in the face of opponents or make ridiculous gestures to the fans, etc. I have had the good fortune to coach some young kids who need polish to their games in junior high. Every young person develops at a different pace. Some are more disciplined than others. These young players are clearly as disciplined as most high school teams and a lot more than many I have seen. I, for one, remember that I was very undisciplined as a young kid and would gun from 25 feet if left open--I made my share but I completely lacked an understanding of the team aspects of the game. (For those who make think I am old--you are right, all of those long shots I made only counted for two points!) As I got older I started to learn but it was not until I was out of college and playing on a military travelling team that I started to understand what it took to win in a disciplined fashion. I was impressed with the way Vashon's players handled themselves in the first loss in 60 games. Hansborough is clearly a stud but he got a lot of calls when he just put his head down and bulled to the basket. I think you owe an apology to the young men on the Vashon team. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quality Is Job 1 Posted March 14, 2005 Share Posted March 14, 2005 No. Leon fouled out with zero points. He missed at least two free-throw attempts (I saw a little over three quarters of the game). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aj_arete Posted March 14, 2005 Share Posted March 14, 2005 In fact, Kevin Slaten talks about it. You see a bunch of inner city black kids on the court and they're automatically gifted and athletic. However what I saw last night was Tyler Hansborough outrace James Washington on a steal and dunk play. I also saw his brother show very good quickness against Vashon. While I agree with Roy that Vashon has a number of good athletes, they don't have great athletes. The primary exceptions are Dwyane Polk and Nicholas Kern. It didn't show last night, but Vashon won 60 straight games because they're sound fundamentally. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted March 14, 2005 Share Posted March 14, 2005 my comments were made towards irons. he is the one that coaches the team and imo does nothing to teach them basketball. he survives off of having incredible depth of pure athletes. i.e. he is responsible for not harnessing those players. as to your comment about how proud you were of the team. it appeared that irons didnt even shake hands with the opposing coach. an assistant did but irons didnt. sorry, you can have them and i'll apologize to vashon when they apologize for walking off the court a few years back, running up the score on desmet and many others over the years, and now irons not shaking hands with the winning coach saturday nite, and all the illegal recruiting he does each year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted March 14, 2005 Share Posted March 14, 2005 besides all the unneccessary and borderline outrageous pushing, pulling, hitting, how can you defend some of the wild shots and runs to the basket as early as the 3rd quarter when down by double digits? sorry, there is a difference between aggressive and stupid play. imo most of vashon play saturday nite was out of control and thus my "wild animal" assertion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ACE Posted March 14, 2005 Share Posted March 14, 2005 >... if proof is in the pudding, then how come Vashon kids >don't go anywhere after their high school days are over? >Sure, you can name Dwayne Polk, Jimmy McKinney, Anthony >Bonner, Anthony Jones, and probably one or two more ... but >Bonner was in high school after my college time .... so over >20 or 25 years, I'm listing four players or so above. >Fundamentally sound? Sorry, david, I don't buy that .... The fact that Vashon hasn't produced a lot of D1 players, yet still wins consistently, could be a sign that the talent is over-rated and the coaching is under-rated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ACE Posted March 14, 2005 Share Posted March 14, 2005 >There are some Vashon players that are very good to great >athletes and they are some that are not. Luke Meyer is as >athletic as Johnny Hill is. Borgia's point guard Alex >Moosman is quicker than James Washington. I think if people >weren't so blinded by Vashon's mystique they would see that. I agree. I didn't think Vashon's athleticism was anthing special. Poplar Bluff had several kids outside of Tyler Hansborough who were as athletic as the Vashon players. Poplar was very comfortable running the break when they had the opportunity and they were very quick at grabbing loose balls. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjray Posted March 14, 2005 Share Posted March 14, 2005 >besides all the unneccessary and borderline outrageous >pushing, pulling, hitting, how can you defend some of the >wild shots and runs to the basket as early as the 3rd >quarter when down by double digits? sorry, there is a >difference between aggressive and stupid play. imo most of >vashon play saturday nite was out of control and thus my >"wild animal" assertion. "animal" means subhuman. I would not throw a label like that on a kid in a public forum based upon how he (or an entire team) plays. I understand that you wish to criticize the play observed and that is reasonable but it can be done without degrading the players personally as subhuman. Attack the play but not the player is my point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted March 14, 2005 Share Posted March 14, 2005 i consider that style of play subhuman. there is nothing i hate more than the fouling and street ball style. i wont even call it basketball. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nate Latsch Posted March 14, 2005 Share Posted March 14, 2005 >my comments were made towards irons. he is the one that >coaches the team and imo does nothing to teach them >basketball. he survives off of having incredible depth of >pure athletes. i.e. he is responsible for not harnessing >those players. Roy, I agree with you that Floyd Irons does have "incredible depth of pure athletes," but you are wrong to say he does nothing to teach them basketball. Vashon is probably the most fundamentally sound squad in the area. They didn't become that way without coaching. What you saw on Saturday was the better team, led by one of the best players in the country, win. It certainly wasn't all on Tyler either, because his teammates stepped up, but Hansbrough created a lot of problems inside that Vashon had no answer for. And once the Wolverines started to settle for and miss their perimeter shots in the third quarter instead of attacking the basket -- The V missed all eight of its 3-point attempts in the second half -- Poplar Bluff pulled away in the third quarter, outscoring the Wolverines 18-8 and never really looking back. The better team won. But to say Irons doesn't teach his kids how to play basketball is crazy. Nate Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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