davidnark Posted January 30, 2005 Share Posted January 30, 2005 A few years back, our administration selected Soderberg over Brian Gregory. Now, three seasons later, Dayton is 12-5 and looking forward to another likely NCAA tournament invite. Meanwhile, SLU is 5-14 and struggling to score 40 ppg. Unlike Gregory, Soderberg has yet to make the tournament while at SLU. To make matters worse, Dayton and their fans crushed Soderberg's Billikens at home this year. Hindsight is 20/20, but maybe the coaching choice wasn't the right one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schasz Posted January 30, 2005 Share Posted January 30, 2005 David, Are you ready to throw in the towel on Coach Soderberg now? I believe that he gets at least a couple years with Tommie and Kevin. The '06-'07 season is the one that we must show major improvement with a NCAA Big Dance invite. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3star_recruit Posted January 30, 2005 Share Posted January 30, 2005 Brad was saying all the right things 2 1/2 years ago about how he intended to play the game of basketball: "My preference is to play up-tempo basketball, stuff that the fans enjoy watching." We're even harder to watch now than before he took over. He certainly had me fooled. If he had said from jump that we're going to grind it out until we get the perfect mix of athletes, which could potentially be never, I don't think many of us would have championed his cause in the first place. But now Brad's at a crossroads. How does he keep this team, filled with players that he and his staff hand-picked, from going 7-22 next season and driving attendance levels to the lowest we've seen in 15 years? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davidnark Posted January 30, 2005 Author Share Posted January 30, 2005 I am not giving up on Brad; I am just playing Devil's Advocate for now. I am, however, very disturbed by the coaching decisions he made yesterday and in similar situations earlier this season. I am even more concerned about how oblivious he was to his coaching error's based upon his comments in the postgame radio interview. If Brad can't get it together next season, then I may be ready to throw in the towel. I suspect that I will not be alone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tseugnekillib Posted January 30, 2005 Share Posted January 30, 2005 Before we all gag on this season losing record, let's not lose sight of Soderberg's prior two years at something like 19-15 and 16-14. This is Soderberg's first losing record in his 20+ year coaching career. No doubt, he has learned a ton, particularly about recruiting. Let's see what changes. I find it unbelieveable that DP can be held scoreless for the second consecutive game. Scoreless in 56 minutes of playing time over the past two games. One would think DP could get a bucket or free throw by accident. At last week's dinner at the MAC, Soderberg expressed high confidence in DP, and sees DP as an important player in the future. Soderberg was high on both DP's skills and his character. If Soderberg can have patience with his non-scoring point guard, then I'll give the head coach the same amount of patience. I also remain hopeful that DP can contribute 5 or 6 points each game. Time will tell on both individuals. Let's see where the Billikens are when DP/DB/LM/BH are juniors, IV/JJ/DC are seniors and TL/KL/??/?? are sophs. Patience given, patience granted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Basketbill Posted January 30, 2005 Share Posted January 30, 2005 when Gregory took over Dayton's cupboard was more than half full, yet as I recall we beat them here the first year and there the second. SO Brad is 2-1 agaisnt him. This season is irrelevant to me with regards to Brad coaching, I want to see what he does with KL, TL, DP, DB, IV, LM over the next two years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Basketbill Posted January 30, 2005 Share Posted January 30, 2005 Dayton this year is either developing or about to tank, their conference schedule so far has been weak. Overall SOS 179 thus their RPI is >110. Now they head into the toughest part of their schedule with 2 games against GW(including today) 2 Xavier, 2 Richmond, and 1 with Temple. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kshoe Posted January 30, 2005 Share Posted January 30, 2005 Gregory didn't take over Dayton until last season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheeseman Posted January 30, 2005 Share Posted January 30, 2005 I am not ready to throw in the towel on Brad just yet but as 3Star said - no free passes next year. He has to show that this team is on the way to getting better and that he can start getting the fans excited again about SLU BB. He has backed himself into a corner and he has to be held responsible for this - the blame can not be placed on anybody else. Yes he had winning records his first two years with left over Romar players so this season was a huge disappointment. I think TF's injury hurt good coaches have to find away to still win. Brad has to not only show progress next year on the W/L side but also have successful recruiting classes. This one was good and can be even better once the spring signing period is over but he has to produce again in the fall so the next 10 months are critical for him. If he can not come up anybody this spring who can help the team and/or his fall upcoming recruiting class is weak then he may very well be coaching his last year at SLU or at the very least his last two years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
STLfan Posted January 31, 2005 Share Posted January 31, 2005 I hope Soderberg gets at least one more year. This year has been very disapointing but I still beleive that we have a good coach. My only concern is recruiting. I know everyone is excited about the great local group that we have coming in but so far brad's other recruits havn't been looking that impresive. Besides being a slu fan I am also a mizzou fan and have been keeping an eye on the mid majors since I think quin will be gone next year. This is a guy that I think mizzou should look at or in a season or two if soderberg still isn't working and he hasn't gotten a new job by then we might want to think about him here. Randy Bennett from St. Mary's. This is his fourth year at St. Mary's and as far as I can tell he has been getting better each year. The year before he took over they had two wins all year. In 01-02 they finished 9-20 In 02-03 they finished 15-15 In 03-04 they finished 19-12 And so far this year they are 19-5 (and currently first in the WCC including a win over gonzaga) More about Bennett "Prior to accepting the position in Moraga, Bennett was the top assistant at Saint Louis University for two years under Lorenzo Romar. Taking over after a season in which the Billikens were sub .500, Romar and Bennett coached Saint Louis to an NCAA Tournament berth after winning the Conference USA Tournament with four consecutive wins in four consecutive days, holding all opponents under 60 points. Saint Louis was the first team in NCAA history to accomplish this feat. Included was an upset of then #1 nationally ranked Cincinnati. Bennett's on-court duties at Saint Louis included coordinating the conference's best field goal defense, working daily with individual players, and teaching team concepts. Off the court, Bennett was the recruiting coordinator, organized practice schedules, and scouting." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlumniFan Posted January 31, 2005 Share Posted January 31, 2005 nm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYBill Posted January 31, 2005 Share Posted January 31, 2005 I'm not sure how you can say that a season is irrelevant. This season is an absolute disaster - a worse case scenario. It has killed thousands of fans' enthusiasm for the program. Can he get it back? Of course, fans are fickle and a good season next year we're right back there. But you can't excuse Soderberg for ruining this season - he has nobody to blame but himself. I've always thought we should have gone with Gregory. Even last season when we beat Dayton you could just look at the recruits Gregory was bringing in and see that his team will be better long term. He brings in athletic, big players. It's great Soderberg got Tommie and Kevin, but ANY SLU coach should have gotten those two guys - they're in our backyard and there's no excuse for not getting them. We need a coach who gets those guys and some real players from farther afield because our backyard isn't deep enough. I sure hope Soderberg can start doing that but he's shown no ability to thus far. I also hope Soderberg proves me wrong on the Gregory decision over the next few years, but I'm not betting on it. >when Gregory took over Dayton's cupboard was more than half >full, yet as I recall we beat them here the first year and >there the second. SO Brad is 2-1 agaisnt him. > >This season is irrelevant to me with regards to Brad >coaching, I want to see what he does with KL, TL, DP, DB, >IV, LM over the next two years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deano Posted January 31, 2005 Share Posted January 31, 2005 Time will tell on both individuals>. Deron Williams of Illinois went scoreless his first 3 B10 games during his freshman year and many of my Illini brethren were throwing fits. Polk will come around. Hang in there Billiken fans. I forsee better days for your team. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjray Posted January 31, 2005 Share Posted January 31, 2005 I am wondering about Polk's future as well (although that charging call against him yesterday on the break was bogus). Both Lisch and Liddell can play point. Even Darren Clarke and Danny Brown can play point. Does he add enough in other areas that we can allow him to play 30 minutes a game and score next to nothing? In the game against Marquette, when Creen started having his point post up Dwayne (which Dwayne was in no position to handle if the kid caught the ball down there), I thought it became apparent that the scales had tipped and Dwayne deficiencies outweighed what he adds. Rather than Drejaj, I would have went with Clarke or Brown at point (and only went back to Dwayne when they pressed down the stretch). Next year, with Liddell, do we stick with Dwayne if he continues not to score? Or would we be better off going with Liddell at point, Lisch at the 2 and D. Brown at the 3? There shall be some interesting coaching decisions to be made next year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gister Posted January 31, 2005 Share Posted January 31, 2005 One thing I don't like about Gregory, and Creen as well, is their on court coaching style. Creen walks back and forth yelling at nobody in particular. It is almost a rehearsed motion. Back and forth, back and forth, kneel down at the scorer's table, take a few steps past the coaching line, yell, back and forth, back and forth, kneel down at the scorer's table, etc, etc. Gregory looks like a little general out there with many of the same mannerisms of Creen, back and forth, back and forth, with no apparent relation to anything going on, on the court. This says nothing about their coaching ability. But, based on their on-court performance, no thanks to either one. Let's just see how it all turns out in a few years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted January 31, 2005 Share Posted January 31, 2005 way too early to make that call. two more years max to see if the building projects (ian and bryce) pan out, kevin and tommie mesh, and what else he recruits on his own. you really cant count our juniors and seniors as they were stop gap replacements. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Basketbill Posted January 31, 2005 Share Posted January 31, 2005 nm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted January 31, 2005 Share Posted January 31, 2005 the seniors and juniors should be romar recruits though. the fact they are not should have been a clue to this season. stopgaps typically dont turn into all-americans. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davidnark Posted January 31, 2005 Author Share Posted January 31, 2005 We already know that one of the projects (Ian) has panned out well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slufanskip Posted January 31, 2005 Share Posted January 31, 2005 I'll keep UB ... Yes we don't agree with everything he has done, but we have good young talent ... young talent which takes a couple of years to develop. IMO it is stupid to sit here and talk about whether Gregory would have been a better fit ... after seeing the play of our seniors and juniors this year it is obvious as to why we are having a bad year, but as noted most of those recruits were stop gaps ... guys picked up who were left over ... plus we have had injuries to a couple of them. There has not been time to develop depth, to do that youy have to have freshmen and sophs who have been learning and backing up jr's and sr's. When our current class of freshman and sophs are juniors and seniors, we should have and UB will have had time to develop that depth and have a new set of young guys already on the roster waiting to fill the roles of the graduating seniors ... but this takes time. I won't even consider the possibility of UB not being right for the job until he has had a proper amount of time to succeed, and we aren't close to that yet. Official Billikens.com sponsor of H. Waldman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Basketbill Posted January 31, 2005 Share Posted January 31, 2005 it is my opinion. Now seriously, while I had much higher hopes for this year, it was clear to me in october that the recruits coming in next year was most exciting thing about the billikens. This years team was hurt more than we thought by things out of Brad's direct control, 1. TL not qualifying, 2 Brandon Morris not qualifying the year before leaving DP as the only real point gaurd, 3 Injuries to RB and TF. So to me how this team does in a win loss column is irrelevant to my decision to stay with the head coach or not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3star_recruit Posted January 31, 2005 Share Posted January 31, 2005 "Or would we be better off going with Liddell at point, Lisch at the 2 and D. Brown at the 3?" I've got no problem with that. I just want the Coach to be upfront with his players about his plans for the offense. Polk may not want to be a backup for three years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted January 31, 2005 Share Posted January 31, 2005 davidnark said, "We already know that one of the projects (Ian) has panned out well." so if ian does not get any better than he is right now, you are happy with that for the next 2+ years? sighhhh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billikendave Posted January 31, 2005 Share Posted January 31, 2005 Roy, You are absolutely correct and most people on the board are completely overlooking this fact. Our "star" players on this team are stop gap players. In fact, that is what Brad has had to recruit just to have adequate players to fill out the roster without destroying the future. IO, Frericks, Reggie, are D-1 players but I doubt seriously anyone thought that they would take us to the promised land. In fact, I believe that you can't build a program with transfers or jucos. They can supplement a team (i.e. H Waldman circa 1993). I don't mean to bring up the "rip on Romar threads" but the cupboard was exceedingly bare with lost recruiting classes. Every lost class takes 4 years to show its effect. I fully expect next year to START to see some hope with IV, Polk and the two freshmen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billikendave Posted January 31, 2005 Share Posted January 31, 2005 I am a UD alumni and I have followed the program since it was in the dregs in the early 1990s. Oliver Purnell took over the program and rebuilt it before he left for UVA. Gregory then took over a program which had been to the NCAAs, had 4 years of decent/solid recruits and has kept building on it. Hate to say it but imagine Brad taking over after Spoon w/o Romar. Actually Purnell left UD in much better shape than Spoon. A foundation was laid the team had with recent success. UD's team this year is young and will likely start to stumble -- lost yesterday to GW and has the tough part of the A-10 schedule to go. I like Gregory he (or any coach at SLU) would need two more years before we can see if it could be turned around... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.