Perspectives on a new system

[Sheltiedave]

There has been a lot of carping and bitching about our record, and Brad's perceived lack of coaching, so I thought we could take a little look at my other favorite team to the north for some striking parallels. Illinois has gone through the same development process we are involved with, only they have an edge in overall talent.

They have two of the top ten college point guards, a third guard who has developed into an adequate possession point guard, the second best high school shooting guard, a 7'2" midrange shooting center who was the Florida POY with asthma, a 6'5" power forward, and a good 6'9" running center.

When Self left and Weber came in, there was a shift from a high/low game to a transition based motion offense. It took over 3/4 of a season for a top 15 team with one NBA starter and two NBA backups to begin to master the system, and this being a team with three or four backups that would be starting for SLU. Weber had two assistants that worked on nothing but rebounding and offensive sets.

Illinois got ripped as being one of the most poorly coached teams in the Big Ten last year, and at times they had me scratching my head wondering how they could be so ugly and forced while on the court, with the talent they could throw out there. A year later, they look like a lower echelon NBA team, with well scripted passing, cutting, and great all around teamwork on both sides of the ball.

What could possibly explain all the changes? The extra year of development, added physical strength, and the mental discipline to work within the system have all blended to create a monster of a team that is as enjoyable to watch as any I have seen in twenty years. Weber's motion system is very similar to Brad's, only he has the stallions at three of the slots, a physically dominant PF, and a center who has a high gear and can run. Even so, it has taken two full seasons to teach, blend, and mature the team to the point where people can forget there is a system and just watch the game.

We are not at that point yet, but we will have the backcourt next year that eventually will mature into a trioka similar to Illinois'. Dwayne has the jets and handle comparable to Dee, Kevin has the hard nosed defense and the court savvy close to Deron, and Tommie has a skills set and atheletic ability that will rival Luther Head's(acknowledged by my hometown Illini ass't., who is very high on the trio.)

We live and die with each Billiken loss, but high school kids exist in a different world than us. They may not read the paper much, but they desperately want to attend a program with good players and have the opportunity for plenty of playing time. Getting facetime on ESPN is icing on the cake. With the guards we have and the motion system that Brad has successfully run at Wisky and here, we will have little trouble getting more talent to buy into our program. We are not that far off from creating a resurging reputation for SLU, the start of this season nonwithstanding!

All I want for Christmas is a good PF...

[Schasz]

IMHO...kind of hard to compare SLU to the Illini. You seemed to say it all in your comment that 4 of their reserves could start for SLU. I do think it is fair to question our talent level at this time. We all knew that a win at Gonzaga was problematic, but a 30 point loss is another matter. We got off to a very slow start against competition that at least on paper you'd think we would win a few of those game. The only player who had no experience with Brad's offense getting serious minutes would be Polk, and one could understand his growing pains...the others were here last year...we did not change the offense for them????

[lefty]

Illinois finished 24-6 last year and 13-3 in the Big 10.Very few in the country considered them a disappointment except for their early tournament exit. I think you're setting yourself up for another disappointment if you're drawing a parallel here.

[jjray]

We are regressing on the offensive end, not getting better. The problem is not learning the offense, the problem is that the players on the floor are not suited to the offense. SLU is not installing a new system ala Webber's first year at Illinois. Brad has been the coach 3 years now. When Bruce arrived at Illinois, the offense was new for every player on the floor. In the game against the Zags, 4 of our 5 starters were veterans of Brad's motion offense. Most of the players coming off the bench are not new to the system.

I'm not ready to give up on Brad (by no means) but he needs to see the problem and address it. Let's not gloss over the size of the problem with excuses. This team is in serious trouble.

[kshoe]

"things will be better next year" theory if our two top scoreres weren't graduating next year. Yes, we have some great talent coming in but as we are learning with DP it is hard for the freshmen to dominate. Thus, next looks like another rebuilding season and we'll all be hoping that the year after is the one where everything clicks and we go to the dance. We are hoping that in year 5 of Brad's tenure we finally get to the dance.

[billiken_roy]

schasz, what i got out of sheltie's post was that after tommie and kevin arrive, our guards will indeed resemble a younger version of the illini guards. of course the missing ingredient remains bonner II. over the summer people would ask me what i thought of the illini, i kept telling them that outside of augustine the illini just didnt have inside strength. wow, what powell has done to improve his body and especially his game is fantastic. smith is adequate, and carter does fine in his brief appearances. we need a powell and we need someone to become augustine. personally, i dont think either is on the current roster.

[Billiken Rich]

LoRo's horrific recruiting and abrupt departure is still haunting us. Edwin, Mcclain, Pulley, Hollins, and the dude who went home to Montana (his name escapes me at the moment)would all be upperclassmen or at least over their freshman-itus by now.

I won't be blaming Romar too much longer if Brad keeps faltering but there is still blame to go around at this point. If the year after AD and IO graduates is not a good one Brad should star checking the classifieds.......

[3star_recruit]

This is IO's last season.

[Billiken Rich]

Good point. My thought is that Brad gets a pass for that first late recruiting class after LoRo ----ed us with a ---- big enough for a whale to feel it.

[BillikenButch]

Edwin would be in his 5th year this season. Absent injury, he would not be eligible.

[billiken_roy]

edwin would already be gone if romar was still the coach. he would have been a senior last year for romar.

izik graduates this year with frericks and bryant. next year is drejaj and newborne.

john seyfert is the player you cant remember, i did not see much of the mi$$ouri vs montana game, but what i saw i dont remember seeing him. so not sure if he is still on the team or hurt or just not playing much.

[Billiken Rich]

Seyfert thanks. I still think that Brad gets a pass on his first late recruiting class including Drejaj and JJ. If Brad isn't firing on all cylinders when Polk is a junior and Kevin and Tommie are sophmores then it'll be time for him to go. Till then it looks like it'll be ugly in any case.....

[Sheltiedave]

JJ, I'm not glossing over the current team's performance, I'm ignoring it! Brad is trying to implement a new system, but has found we do not have the horses besides Dwayne that can truly get out on a fast break. I alluded to it in earlier threads when we talked about the importance of the secondary break, and the one game we ran a good secondary break, we had a 14 point run. This year we do not have the personnel to do a break, but we will next year, and Dwayne will prosper.

I was hoping to make the following points from other threads and this one, namely-

we will finally have the guards to have a good transition team developing in the backcourt next year

our guards will be able to drive the recruiting engine for the next four years

Brad knows how to coach and recruit

we have multiple people who are new to a transition motion offense, including Dwayne, Luke, DB, Bryce, Va'shon, and essentially everyone BUT Reggie, who played a version at Villanova

Reggie is injured, Tom is slowly coming out of allergy/asthma season

the people chomping on Brad have no idea how hard he and his staff are working to recover this season. This is NOT a Fat Pat staff, where work is radio'd in and checks are cashed. There comes a time when fans need to realistically look at the team talent, the coaching, and our losses, and accurately assess whether we have bad coaching, a bad system, bad players with no heart, or lesser(or inexperienced) talent bested by betters.

[3star_recruit]

"Brad is trying to implement a new system, but has found we do not have the horses besides Dwayne that can truly get out on a fast break."

When did he find this out? I don't see a perimeter player taking off on a regular basis when the shot comes off the rim. All of guards staying in the offensive halfcourt until they see that the ball is secured vitually kills off any chance we have of getting numbers in transition. That split second cheat can make all the difference.

[cheeseman]

First of all, all of this is simply excuses - I know some will say no they are reasons but the way I see it is nobody gets a free pass. If the coach does not have the players to play the way he wants and won't change to put his players in a position to be successful then shame on him - he is not a good coach then. I am not saying that is exactly the situation right now with SLU. Second, all the players on the team that are not first year freshmen or a jucco transfer this year have had at least one full year if not 2 or 3 years of practice in Brad's system so the only ones who get a little slack are Meyers, Polk, VN - all the others have no excuses for not being able to play the system correctly. Now that does not address the lack of skill of those players - that is not their fault unless they simply have not worked hard and given 100% (sorry not mathematically possible to give 110%). If they have worked hard and given 100% then it is the coach's fault for not adapting to the reality of his players. Third, you can talk about scheduling but the record resulting from the schedule is simply an end of the other 2 points I made above. I am not ready to ride Brad out on a rail but I am willing to be objective about his job. As I said in an earlier post, he said show me the money and now he has to show results and 2 years from now is too little too late.

[jjray]

Certainly will agree with you Dave that our coaching staff is not a version of Fat Pat at DePaul. They work hard to recruit and work the kids hard at practice. And nobody takes a loss more personally than Brad Soderberg. I'm worried he'll get an ulcer. As a fan though, I'd like to see the coach recognize the strengths and weaknesses of the players he has and bend his system to bring the best out of the team. The "adjustments" made to date have resulted in a regression. Very frustrating as a fan.

[Sheltiedave]

JJ, one of the problems Brad has is depending on freshmen to carry the team a major way. We have Dwayne doing a very credible job, Va'shon learning he has to ditch his one on one juco game AND play team defense, and most everyone else getting either their first/second year on the court in the Bills system. I expected hiccups, but was hoping we would be far better than the 91-92 team that had similar strengths/weaknesses.

I think Brad is doing a very credible job just keeping peoples' heads in the game. Remember, the 91-92 team had McGlother walk off the court and quit, Melvin Robinson quit in January, Ryan Grant wash out due to a debilitating medical condition, and Carlos Skinner and Julian Winfield transfer out after the season. I have seen no quit in this team.

[Billiken Rich]

My point is that Polk's help isn't there largely because the recruiting classes preceeding his were damaged by Romar's departure. As I also said this excuse is only applicable for another year or so.

[Quality Is Job 1]

>I think Brad is doing a very credible job just keeping

>peoples' heads in the game. Remember, the 91-92 team had

>McGlother walk off the court and quit, Melvin Robinson quit

>in January, Ryan Grant wash out due to a debilitating

>medical condition, and Carlos Skinner and Julian Winfield

>transfer out after the season. I have seen no quit in this

>team.

I believe the sequence went as follows:

Melvin Robinson quit, transfering to Arizona St.

Carlos Skinner quit;

Ryan Grant lost the rest of his season to a recurrence of a knee injury;

McGlother Irvin quit;

Rich Grawer was fired after the season;

Julian Winfield and Kevin Grawer transferred.

[gister]

Just checked on Seyfert. He is listed as a junior. It says he missed the last 10 or so games last season because of a leg injury.

This year he is listed as the starting center for every game, but his minutes for the regular season games have been 17, 6, 17, 14, 7, 9, and 2 against Missouri. So his leg is probably still a problem.