OkieBilliken Posted February 6 Share Posted February 6 There is not a chance that college sports are going away. Will there be changes? Absolutely. Will the large schools dominate and make it difficult for everyone else? Absolutely. Will the government and courts get more involved and make it worse? You betcha. I see facilities being built/upgraded/expanded for multiple sports at schools at all levels. A flourishing athletic department is a pretty significant differentiator when students are making their college choices. This is not going to change. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soderball Posted February 6 Share Posted February 6 38 minutes ago, OkieBilliken said: There is not a chance that college sports are going away. Will there be changes? Absolutely. Will the large schools dominate and make it difficult for everyone else? Absolutely. Will the government and courts get more involved and make it worse? You betcha. I see facilities being built/upgraded/expanded for multiple sports at schools at all levels. A flourishing athletic department is a pretty significant differentiator when students are making their college choices. This is not going to change. with the decline in young people in the USA a lot of colleges/universities will be shuttering to begin with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soderball Posted February 6 Share Posted February 6 41 minutes ago, OkieBilliken said: There is not a chance that college sports are going away. Will there be changes? Absolutely. Will the large schools dominate and make it difficult for everyone else? Absolutely. Will the government and courts get more involved and make it worse? You betcha. I see facilities being built/upgraded/expanded for multiple sports at schools at all levels. A flourishing athletic department is a pretty significant differentiator when students are making their college choices. This is not going to change. You're also failing to mention, again, that the only sports that matter are football and basketball we can talk about soccer and baseball to a (much) lesser extent, but i know exactly zero students(who don't play on those teams) who are deciding on a university for those sports. Students may choose to go to Columbia to watch football, sure, that i can buy. The non-revenue sports are headed out the door Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
willie Posted February 6 Share Posted February 6 13 minutes ago, Soderball said: with the decline in young people in the USA a lot of colleges/universities will be shuttering to begin with. Fontbonne Webster? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OkieBilliken Posted February 6 Share Posted February 6 4 minutes ago, Soderball said: You're also failing to mention, again, that the only sports that matter are football and basketball we can talk about soccer and baseball to a (much) lesser extent, but i know exactly zero students(who don't play on those teams) who are deciding on a university for those sports. Students may choose to go to Columbia to watch football, sure, that i can buy. The non-revenue sports are headed out the door Yeah but you can't just play football and basketball. Will some sports be eliminated at some schools who aren't generating enough revenue and don't have enough donors to support? Probably. College baseball, soccer, volleyball, lacrosse, softball, tennis aren't going away. Some schools might have to drop a team or two. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cgeldmacher Posted February 6 Share Posted February 6 Colleges have been dropping sports left and right. If I were Dartmouth, I would announce that they are dropping men's basketball after this season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Elrond Posted February 6 Share Posted February 6 1 hour ago, TheChosenOne said: Anytime you start to think about potential "solutions" you run into more and more questions, so I have no idea what the future of college athletics looks like. I also don't pretend to know all of the complexities beyond reading them and concluding there is no solution! I do think it appears that the first step could be the Big Ten and SEC football programs splitting off and doing their own thing outside of the NCAA for football. Again, I don't know what exactly that looks like or what additional conferences/programs would be part of that, but it seems like there is at least some movement there. And I do think fans of those programs won't overly care if that becomes more of a true minor league football league. Football in America is just different and once you layer on the tribal nature of college football fanbases, I don't think those programs that go that route would be any less popular. Doesn’t get them out from under having to treat student athletes as employees and paying them. The only solution for that is for them to break off the football and basketball teams, get rid of the students and make them pro teams, and get Congress to change labor laws for the rest of the sports saying that student-athletes in those sports are not employees, but letting them keep scholarships and housing, and maybe a modest stipend. No way Congress passes laws like that if it includes football and basketball considering all the revenue those bring in. But who knows? Wild times ahead. TheChosenOne likes this Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Elrond Posted February 6 Share Posted February 6 31 minutes ago, cgeldmacher said: Colleges have been dropping sports left and right. If I were Dartmouth, I would announce that they are dropping men's basketball after this season. Doesn’t matter though, if male basketball players are employees, then how are athletes in other sports not employees? Does not the law apply equally to everyone? brianstl and Soderball like this Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soderball Posted February 6 Share Posted February 6 38 minutes ago, OkieBilliken said: Yeah but you can't just play football and basketball. Will some sports be eliminated at some schools who aren't generating enough revenue and don't have enough donors to support? Probably. College baseball, soccer, volleyball, lacrosse, softball, tennis aren't going away. Some schools might have to drop a team or two. Why not? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OkieBilliken Posted February 6 Share Posted February 6 9 minutes ago, Soderball said: Why not? I believe to be a NCAA Division I school you need to field 14 teams Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheA_Bomb Posted February 6 Share Posted February 6 3 minutes ago, OkieBilliken said: I believe to be a NCAA Division I school you need to field 14 teams NCAA is about to not exist.T hey served as purpose as a fall guy, shield, but now they've over stepped. I'd recommend SLU and other non-football schools discuss some sort of arrangement then approach the SEC/B10 partnership with some united proposals to keep basketball (and other non FB sports) going. Arrangements for scheduling, post season tournaments, seeding, how seeding is determined and other necessary points. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brianstl Posted February 6 Share Posted February 6 31 minutes ago, Soderball said: Why not? Title IX first off. These schools can't survive without their federal funds. Taj79 likes this Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OkieBilliken Posted February 6 Share Posted February 6 26 minutes ago, TheA_Bomb said: NCAA is about to not exist.T hey served as purpose as a fall guy, shield, but now they've over stepped. I'd recommend SLU and other non-football schools discuss some sort of arrangement then approach the SEC/B10 partnership with some united proposals to keep basketball (and other non FB sports) going. Arrangements for scheduling, post season tournaments, seeding, how seeding is determined and other necessary points. Very unlikely that is going to happen. There will be upheaval for sure and things may not change for the better, but the NCAA isn't going anywhere. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soderball Posted February 6 Share Posted February 6 15 minutes ago, brianstl said: Title IX first off. These schools can't survive without their federal funds. Universities have exactly equal numbers of employees of both genders? I'm pretty sure the way that's been applied to student-athletes isn't apples-to-apples with the faculty and administration. We are talking about athletes as employees, not athletes as students 38 minutes ago, OkieBilliken said: I believe to be a NCAA Division I school you need to field 14 teams Who says the NCAA is going to exist? What purpose does it serve in this new situation of athlete-employees? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soderball Posted February 6 Share Posted February 6 2 minutes ago, OkieBilliken said: Very unlikely that is going to happen. There will be upheaval for sure and things may not change for the better, but the NCAA isn't going anywhere. Which NCAA activities will still remain? Its purpose as a regulatory body is beyond irrelevant. If you think athletes will be required to attend class you are mistaken. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OkieBilliken Posted February 6 Share Posted February 6 2 minutes ago, Soderball said: Which NCAA activities will still remain? Its purpose as a regulatory body is beyond irrelevant. If you think athletes will be required to attend class you are mistaken. If you think the NCAA is just going to somehow no longer be involved in controlling the framework of intercollegiate athletics (championships/rules/officials) you are mistaken. Its possible they may take a step back in enforcement of some student-athlete rules. Wouldn't surprise me at all. I didn't state otherwise. Stating that all non-revenue sports are going away and that the NCAA will no longer exist is extremely hyperbolic IMHO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soderball Posted February 6 Share Posted February 6 4 minutes ago, OkieBilliken said: If you think the NCAA is just going to somehow no longer be involved in controlling the framework of intercollegiate athletics (championships/rules/officials) you are mistaken. Its possible they may take a step back in enforcement of some student-athlete rules. Wouldn't surprise me at all. I didn't state otherwise. Stating that all non-revenue sports are going away and that the NCAA will no longer exist is extremely hyperbolic IMHO. It certainly won't exist in the form we know of. I'm pretty sure conferences will retain most of the rules/championships/officials/etc. power in the future; if you're talking about it as a hollowed-out organization that still technically kinda exists, sure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Elrond Posted February 6 Share Posted February 6 6 minutes ago, OkieBilliken said: If you think the NCAA is just going to somehow no longer be involved in controlling the framework of intercollegiate athletics (championships/rules/officials) you are mistaken. Its possible they may take a step back in enforcement of some student-athlete rules. Wouldn't surprise me at all. I didn't state otherwise. Stating that all non-revenue sports are going away and that the NCAA will no longer exist is extremely hyperbolic IMHO. The NCAA is not a federal organization, it is a voluntary organization that schools can decide to join or not join. Schools have joined because they have seen a benefit to doing so. They can decide to quit if they want to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OkieBilliken Posted February 6 Share Posted February 6 1 minute ago, Lord Elrond said: The NCAA is not a federal organization, it is a voluntary organization that schools can decide to join or not join. Schools have joined because they have seen a benefit to doing so. They can decide to quit if they want to. The vast majority of the members have no interest in pulling out of the NCAA. I don't believe even most of the Power 5 schools want to leave either. They just want to maximize their revenue and get everything they can. It wasn't the NCAA that allowed QBs to make seven figures in college. The Power 5 would like to have some structure in place where they don't have to keep outbidding each other for talent. The NCAA is horribly run. Its been corrupt forever. Its screwed over countless student athletes. Its never been proactive about ANYTHING. But its not going anywhere. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brianstl Posted February 6 Share Posted February 6 45 minutes ago, Soderball said: Universities have exactly equal numbers of employees of both genders? I'm pretty sure the way that's been applied to student-athletes isn't apples-to-apples with the faculty and administration. We are talking about athletes as employees, not athletes as students Who says the NCAA is going to exist? What purpose does it serve in this new situation of athlete-employees? Good luck with that. People are really going to love their athlete employee who is in their 30's, entering their eighth year in the program, never graduated high school and is trying to hang around for another two years to get fully vested in that state pension program. It is the kind of story that makes you want to drive three hours to cheer on State U.. JMM28 likes this Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soderball Posted February 6 Share Posted February 6 2 minutes ago, brianstl said: Good luck with that. People are really going to love their athlete employee who is in their 30's, entering their eighth year in the program, never graduated high school and is trying to hang around for another two years to get fully vested in that state pension program. It is the kind of story that makes you want to drive three hours to cheer on State U.. That's where we are headed, yes. Can they even be fired? expiry? Can athletes be vested(at least in Illinois university employees are part of IMRF) ?? Will they be subject to contracts like the coaches are? How can they pay athletes differently with Title IX? Will they have to pay equal amounts to each MBB player? What about the women's field hockey team? What about the coaching staffs? And the student managers? In theory all of these people could have to be paid, could be subject to pension rules, could be subject to individual or collective contracts. I don't see where collegiate athletics goes from here. I think club sports is the only real, viable way forward. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brianstl Posted February 6 Share Posted February 6 Just now, Soderball said: That's where we are headed, yes. And that will fail completely because that would be a minor league sport that will be attempting to operate on a major league budget. The revenues are going to dry up. Their isn't a sizable enough audience across the country that wants to watch a guy that was never good enough to play in the NFL entering his tenth season as Alabama's starting quarterback. Soderball likes this Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brianstl Posted February 6 Share Posted February 6 Nothing will get people more fired up about the Duke-UNC basketball rivalry than when they are fighting against each other to convince Kendric Davis to sign to play point guard for them instead of signing an Exhibit 10 contract with Golden State. I for one can't wait for the kind of excitement that will bring to the table in such a historic rivalry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brighton Posted February 6 Share Posted February 6 3 hours ago, Soderball said: Students may choose to go to Columbia to watch football, sure, that i can buy. Or St. Charles. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Elrond Posted February 7 Share Posted February 7 1 hour ago, Brighton said: Or St. Charles. Lindenwood has a 7000 seat stadium that they only half fill up, so not many go to St Charles to watch football Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.