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2021 NCAA Tournament Discussion


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41 minutes ago, A10Ref said:

I don't get the "Moser has built a machine"... I get the Caldarella run was awesome, and I could only dream of that (caveat their best win was against a four seed - so maybe if Majerus' team played LIU Brooklyn instead of MSU diff story as UVA lost in their bracket)... That was his first NCAA appearance in 7 years (according to this board 1 in 5 (4) is grounds for firing even inheriting a dumpster fire). Those previous years his teams were mediocre... and now this is his second tournament in four* years (asterisk because last year doesn't count but hard to imagine UNI not winning that tourney). All in all, to me that isn't a monster, but it is a solid program given it's low expectations. To compare that school to what a "monster" could be in the MO Valley with horrendous facilities - SIUC from 2000-2007.

I will give you "Moser has marketed his program really well"

The SIU run was from the 2001-02 to the 2006-07 season.  They won at least a share of the conference title 5 times in six seasons, averaged 3 conference losses a season, won five conference tournament titles. made six NCAA tournaments, made 2 sweet sixteens and won a total of 5 games in the tournament.

Loyola is only in year 4 of their run.  So far the have won at least a share of 3 conference titles, two conference tournaments,  averaged 4 conference losses per season, made two NCAA tournaments, made a Final Four, and as of now have a total of 4 NCAA tournament games won. 
 

I would say right now the SIU run is slightly better, but I think most SIU fans would trade their whole run for that Final Four Loyola still has this tournament and two more seasons to surpass SIU for a six year run.

II don’t get the constant need for some on here to constantly downplay the job Moser has done at Loyola over the last four seasons.  I would trade all the NCAA tournaments in my lifetime of Billiken fandom for a four year run like Loyola has had.

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4 minutes ago, slufanskip said:

Your right it was just one conference game besides Drake. My bad I got them confused with Drakes loss at Valpo. However That doesn't change anything.  120th Net Indiana St, You can call that solid. 

So back to you. What again were their Q1 and Q2 wins? 

I can help. Both quad 1 wins are vs Drake. That's it they have no other quad 1 wins. 

The Q2 Wins #59 N Texas at home. (7 Mo State away twice and 120 Ind St away. 

The Q1 losses Wisc and Drake both away

The Q2 losses Richmond at home and yes the Solid Ind St on the road. 

They played 1 game against a team with a net better than 45 and they lost by double digits. 3 out od conference games to teams in the top 75 of the net rankings and they went 1-2 and 2 of those 3 were 59 and 67 both at home. 

Porter has built a solid squad but the 8/9 seed is about right. Sure it's a machine. 

Looks to me like the bias belongs with you. 

Take that up with the selection committee that has them as an 8 seed and the AP which had them ranked 18.  No bias when they are facts! 
 

I already provided what he’s built with the Loyola program above.  Machine maybe too strong but he’s got nothing but momentum going at that school and has some players. 
 

I’d take Moser as a coach. 

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3 minutes ago, Lando Griffin said:

Take that up with the selection committee that has them as an 8 seed and the AP which had them ranked 18.  No bias when they are facts! 
 

I already provided what he’s built with the Loyola program above.  Machine maybe too strong but he’s got nothing but momentum going at that school and has some players. 
 

I’d take Moser as a coach. 

 

5 minutes ago, brianstl said:

The SIU run was from the 2001-02 to the 2006-07 season.  They won at least a share of the conference title 5 times in six seasons, averaged 3 conference losses a season, won five conference tournament titles. made six NCAA tournaments, made 2 sweet sixteens and won a total of 5 games in the tournament.

Loyola is only in year 4 of their run.  So far the have won at least a share of 3 conference titles, two conference tournaments,  averaged 4 conference losses per season, made two NCAA tournaments, made a Final Four, and as of now have a total of 4 NCAA tournament games won. 
 

I would say right now the SIU run is slightly better, but I think most SIU fans would trade their whole run for that Final Four Loyola still has this tournament and two more seasons to surpass SIU for a six year run.

II don’t get the constant need for some on here to constantly downplay the job Moser has done at Loyola over the last four seasons.  I would trade all the NCAA tournaments in my lifetime of Billiken fandom for a four year run like Loyola has had.

Point taken point take... definitely a final four would make me die today a happy man... Just was calling out the "machine" part. As I stated earlier, would love to see Moser at a big boy job, do great, and prove me wrong. Would love Majerus' coaching tree to get better and better.

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2 minutes ago, brianstl said:

The SIU run was from the 2001-02 to the 2006-07 season.  The won at least a share of the conference title 5 times in six seasons, averaged 3 conference losses a season, won five conference tournament titles. made six NCAA tournaments, made 2 sweet sixteens and won a total of 5 games in the tournament games.

Loyola is only in year 4 of their run.  So far the have won at least a share of 3 conference titles, two conference tournaments,  averaged 4 conference losses per season, made two NCAA tournaments, made a Final Four, and as of now have a total of 4 NCAA tournament games won. 
 

I would say right now the SIU run is slightly better, but I think most SIU fans would trade their whole run for that Final Four Loyola still has this tournament and two more seasons to surpass SIU for a six year run.

II don’t get the constant need for some on here to constantly downplay the job Moser has done at Loyola over the last four seasons.  I would trade all the NCAA tournaments in my lifetime of Billiken fandom for a four year run like Loyola has had.

I went to San Antonio and watched them.  It was an absolute unreal experience and so fun. Each section had its own cheering section and for the Loyola game pretty much everyone but Michigan fans (who they played) wanted them to win so bad. 
 

The atmosphere was like nothing else and I want that so much for SLU and everyone on the board so they can go and experience it. So much fun. 
 

San Antonio was a cool town too.

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8 minutes ago, Lando Griffin said:

Take that up with the selection committee that has them as an 8 seed and the AP which had them ranked 18.  No bias when they are facts! 
 

I already provided what he’s built with the Loyola program above.  Machine maybe too strong but he’s got nothing but momentum going at that school and has some players. 
 

I’d take Moser as a coach. 

Yes and mine were facts also except I had 1 game wrong which really didn't affect the argument. And btw your fact are just people's opinions. It is a fact though that the 8 seed is the selection committee's opinion of them and 18 is the AP's opinion of them

 

An 8 seed. That's what I said. Thanks for agreeing. Do you think they're the 18th best team in the country? The only game they had to a team ranked under 45 by net was 26 Wisconsin and they lost by 14. 

I wouldn't take Porter over Ford, but if somehow Ford was gone tomorrow and we hired Porter I wouldn't be unhappy

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1 minute ago, A10Ref said:

 

Point taken point take... definitely a final four would make me die today a happy man... Just was calling out the "machine" part. As I stated earlier, would love to see Moser at a big boy job, do great, and prove me wrong. Would love Majerus' coaching tree to get better and better.

Respect your comments on the machine went too far.  Appreciate the debate tho. 

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Just now, Lando Griffin said:

Respect your comments on the machine went too far.  Appreciate the debate tho. 

100%! I have enjoyed seeing peter griffin popping up the past few weeks

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2 minutes ago, Lando Griffin said:

I went to San Antonio and watched them.  It was an absolute unreal experience and so fun. Each section had its own cheering section and for the Loyola game pretty much everyone but Michigan fans (who they played) wanted them to win so bad. 
 

The atmosphere was like nothing else and I want that so much for SLU and everyone on the board so they can go and experience it. So much fun. 
 

San Antonio was a cool town too.

San Antonio might be one of my favorite underrated cities in america. Great tex-mex and margs

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1 minute ago, slufanskip said:

An 8 seed. That's what I said. Thanks for agreeing. Do you think they're the 18th best team in the country? The only game they had to a team ranked under 45 by net was 26 Wisconsin and they lost by 14. 

I think they are as good if not deeper and better than their final four run.  
 

they got a crappy draw especially in running into Illinois, they will give them a dog fight. 
 

I mean hell Mizzou beat Illinois so it can be done.

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2 minutes ago, Lando Griffin said:

I think they are as good if not deeper and better than their final four run.  
 

they got a crappy draw especially in running into Illinois, they will give them a dog fight. 
 

I mean hell Mizzou beat Illinois so it can be done.

That wasn't the question though. Do you think they're the 18th best team in the country and if so based upon what? Maybe you can give me some of those wins that would support that ranking

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1 minute ago, A10Ref said:

San Antonio might be one of my favorite underrated cities in america. Great tex-mex and margs

Alamo is cool.  The area around it is a huge tourist trap.  The river walk while great is just full of overpriced food spots.  There was an industrial area that has been renovated that was super cool. Big outdoor area, food ball style dinning. 

The other cool thing about the Final Four is it becomes the CB Mecca.  I had breakfast at a bar with two college coaches on the River Walk.  Can’t remember the schools but they were low mid major coaches but I got to shoot the snd they were really nice.  Saw a ton of big time coaches though in the area.  
 

cheers A-10ref! 

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If you can load up on 3 star recruits you can dominate in the Valley because practically everyone else is at a talent disadvantage.  Wichita St followed that blueprint when they were there.  Loyola is in a good position to go on a similar run.  

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5 minutes ago, slufanskip said:

That wasn't the question though. Do you think they're the 18th best team in the country and if so based upon what? Maybe you can give me some of those wins that would support that ranking

In a year like this one yeah.  No Duke, no Kentucky. 
 

They are one of the top KenPom Defensive teams and beat a heck of a lot of teams and won one of the best mid major conferences both regular season and tournament.

Loyola is where SLU should’ve been this year. 

 

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10 minutes ago, slufanskip said:

That wasn't the question though. Do you think they're the 18th best team in the country and if so based upon what? Maybe you can give me some of those wins that would support that ranking

I think they are one of the top 18 teams in the country.  I don’t think they are the 9th best team in the country like Pomeroy does, but 18th feels about right to me.

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1 minute ago, Lando Griffin said:

In a year like this one yeah.  No Duke, no Kentucky. 
 

They are one of the top KenPom Defensive teams and beat a heck of a lot of teams and won one of the best mid major conferences both regular season and tournament.

Loyola is where SLU should’ve been this year. 

 

a heck of a lot of teams yes. However, the only teams they beat in the top 95 (and I'm saying 95 because Mo State is 97 and that's basically the same as 101 ) is Drake and 59 N. Texas St. 

Love your passion for them though 

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14 minutes ago, brianstl said:

I think they are one of the top 18 teams in the country.  I don’t think they are the 9th best team in the country like Pomeroy does, but 18th feels about right to me.

why? based upon what? 

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5 minutes ago, slufanskip said:

a heck of a lot of teams yes. However, the only teams they beat in the top 95 (and I'm saying 95 because Mo State is 97 and that's basically the same as 101 ) is Drake and 59 N. Texas St. 

Love your passion for them though 

So if they hadn’t won the Mo Valley auto bid, then you think they shouldn’t even be in the tourney? 

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1 minute ago, Lando Griffin said:

So if they hadn’t won the Mo Valley auto bid, then you think they shouldn’t even be in the tourney? 

No I think they're a tourney team. I think 8-10 seed is about right. I don't think Drake should be in the tourney

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2 minutes ago, slufanskip said:

why? 

Because I have watched them play multiple times. They play better defense than we did in our three year run and they are efficient enough offensively.  They won’t make the Final Four this year but they are good and will give the Illini a good test in the second round.

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1 minute ago, brianstl said:

Because I have watched them play multiple times. They play better defense than we did in our three year run and they are efficient enough offensively.  They won’t make the Final Four this year but they are good and will give the Illini a good test in the second round.

I can respect the eye test. However, unless you watched them play Drake or N Texas you either watched them play a mediocre team or lose. 

And please no Mo State or Ind St are good. Had we finished rated 97 or 120 missing even the NIT you'd be calling us mediocre and so would the entire board

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6 minutes ago, slufanskip said:

I can respect the eye test. However, unless you watched them play Drake or N Texas you either watched them play a mediocre team or lose. 

And please no Mo State or Ind St are good. Had we finished rated 97 or 120 missing even the NIT you'd be calling us mediocre and so would the entire board

I don’t need to watch them playing a bunch of really good teams this season because there aren’t a bunch of really good teams this season. The gap between mediocre and good has never been smaller than this season and there are only 6-8 really good teams.  When you do something as important as play defense as well as Loyola does, you have earned your spot in the top 20 in a season like this one.

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@slufanskip I should add, I don’t blame you for doubting how good they actually are.  I think it is fair to question how good most teams in this tournament actually are. There are more really flawed resumes and more teams with multiple flaws on the court in this tournament than I can ever remember.  

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41 minutes ago, slufanskip said:

No I think they're a tourney team. I think 8-10 seed is about right. I don't think Drake should be in the tourney

Okay, just asking.  I wish they would’ve been a 10.  I bet they wish too deep down.

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