SLU Soccer Week 1 Rankings

[kwyjibo]

NSCAA (coaches): SLU 14th (up 1)

Top Shelf (website): SLU 19th (down 1)

College Soccer News (website): SLU 11th (down 1)

Soccer America (website): SLU 7th (up 1)

Soccer Times (coaches): SLU 12th (edit: up 2)

Ken Massey (computer): SLU 23rd (down 8; note Oral Roberts lost to a bad team after losing to SLU)

Bennett computer ranks SLU at 57th (no link and I only mention it to show how bad poorly conceived computer work can be).

Also, this has been happening for about 20 years but I always find it fascinating that the SLU sports information people refer to SLU by the best rank ("7th ranked SLU") when the coaches polls are at least better known and publicized (not saying better). Coaches may not be the best informed on ALL teams and games but just a few people making an editorial decision for a website does not strike me as particularly accurate either.

http://www.nscaatv.com/rankings/2087/NCAADivisionI/men/National/Poll1?force_refresh_cache=1

http://www.topdrawer...al-rankings/men

http://www.collegesoccernews.com/index.php/polls/csn-top-30-poll

http://www.socceramerica.com/article/53548/soccer-america-mens-top-25.html

http://www.masseyrat...csoc⊂=NCAA I

http://www.soccertim...a/top25/men.htm

[Bobby Metzinger]

Michigan football has laid claim to 11 mythological "National Championships," when it has only won 3 AP titles (47, 48, 97). It's what all athletic departments do - wag the dog and spin the numbers in their favor.

[kwyjibo]

One researcher ('The State') claims that the Wash U Bears were the national football champion in 1918 (they were in the Mo Valley that year with K State, Nebraska, Kansas, etc.; they also beat SLU that year 19-0). As far as I know they do not use that claim at all in SID literature. What's the point, most games in 1918 were cancelled because of an influenza pandemic.

Michigan claims a national title for that year though (because some guy in the 1980's formed a group called the National Championship Foundation and named them retroactive co-champion).

[WUH]

One researcher ('The State') claims that the Wash U Bears were the national football champion in 1918 (they were in the Mo Valley that year with K State, Nebraska, Kansas, etc.; they also beat SLU that year 19-0). As far as I know they do not use that claim at all in SID literature. What's the point, most games in 1918 were cancelled because of an influenza pandemic.

The Bears can claim a lot of titles, but they definitely do not claim to have a football title. It is interesting to look back at those schedules. If I remember correctly, WUSTL has a winning record against SLU and Kansas.

As far as the rankings are concerned, at least they do indicate the source of the ranking. But I am with you though--the NSCAA should be the standard.

[slufanskip]

It always seems to me that the coaches polls in most sports are usually the worst. I don't know which one I'd call the best though. I agree with the Bills using the best ranking.

Also David Graydon was named to the collegesoccernews team of the week

[MapleLeaf45]

Also, this has been happening for about 20 years but I always find it fascinating that the SLU sports information people refer to SLU by the best rank ("7th ranked SLU") when the coaches polls are at least better known and publicized (not saying better). Coaches may not be the best informed on ALL teams and games but just a few people making an editorial decision for a website does not strike me as particularly accurate either.

3 things I am surprised no one has mentioned:

1) TV networks often do this selecting the better ranking from the AP or Coaches poll for the game they are currently showing.

2) Kentucky claiming the 1948 national championship. Of course people will make an argument about the waning importance of the NIT in the year that SLU won it (correct me if I am wrong) but wasn't the real drop in the credibility of the NIT due to the CCNY point shaving scandal in 1951?

3) SLU won the olympics in football.

[slufan13]

Not that anyone on here cares but I thought I'd mention that my alma matter Gibault High School (high school of Chris Braun if anyone wants to remember him) defeated local and national powerhouse SLUH in soccer tonight for the first time ever. Something like 20 straight losses so nice to get a win. Gibault had won 3 straight Illinois State Championships from 2005-2007 while I was there, but we never beat SLUH. Enrollment of 200 against an enrollment of 1400. Again I know you guys don't care but I had to tell someone.

[slufan13]

Back on topic, underrated weekend for the Billikens. NIU is an underrated team in my opinion and it's the first of many Friday/Sunday weekends. Shouldn't have any trouble with Cincinnati on Friday. NIU beat Cincy 3-0 last week so it'll be interesting to see how we stack up against each team.

[BACKHANDtheRICAN]

Not that anyone on here cares but I thought I'd mention that my alma matter Gibault High School (high school of Chris Braun if anyone wants to remember him) defeated local and national powerhouse SLUH in soccer tonight for the first time ever. Something like 20 straight losses so nice to get a win. Gibault had won 3 straight Illinois State Championships from 2005-2007 while I was there, but we never beat SLUH. Enrollment of 200 against an enrollment of 1400. Again I know you guys don't care but I had to tell someone.

You are right, nobody cares. Although I'm sure that the 24 ppl in attendance witnessed a barn burner.

[slufan13]

You are right, nobody cares. Although I'm sure that the 24 ppl in attendance witnessed a barn burner.

Hey there were probably 30 or so people....

[Pistol]

Back on topic, underrated weekend for the Billikens. NIU is an underrated team in my opinion and it's the first of many Friday/Sunday weekends. Shouldn't have any trouble with Cincinnati on Friday. NIU beat Cincy 3-0 last week so it'll be interesting to see how we stack up against each team.

I'll be in attendance Friday. Hoping to make it Sunday, too. I know the billikens.com soccer fan requirement is to post a 5000-word summary on the game, but don't expect that level of detail from me.

[kwyjibo]

I'll be in attendance Friday. Hoping to make it Sunday, too. I know the billikens.com soccer fan requirement is to post a 5000-word summary on the game, but don't expect that level of detail from me.

One word summaries, like "GOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAALLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!" are fine.

[slufanskip]

I'll be in attendance Friday. Hoping to make it Sunday, too. I know the billikens.com soccer fan requirement is to post a 5000-word summary on the game, but don't expect that level of detail from me.

I'm also going to try and make both. I'll be behind the BIlls bench about 3-4 rows up. Come on over and at least say hello

[slufanskip]

I'm also going to try and make both. I'll be behind the BIlls bench about 3-4 rows up. Come on over and at least say hello

Oops, game is in Cinci. I will not be there which means we do expect at least a 1000 word summary

[billikenfan05]

I'll be in attendance Friday. Hoping to make it Sunday, too. I know the billikens.com soccer fan requirement is to post a 5000-word summary on the game, but don't expect that level of detail from me.

See you there pistol.

[Pistol]

See you there pistol.

For a second, I thought I'd see both you and Skip. That may have been too much to handle.

[WUH]

Not that anyone on here cares but I thought I'd mention that my alma matter Gibault High School (high school of Chris Braun if anyone wants to remember him) defeated local and national powerhouse SLUH in soccer tonight for the first time ever.

I am 100 percent sure there are MCC alumni who care to know that SLUH was beaten in some sport by some school somewhere.

[slufanskip]

I'll post this here because it is a soccer thread but it's about the decision HS players have to make between US Dev Acadamy clubs and their HS. I don't really see the issue, it's not US Soccers problem to make sure HS sports are strong. Their goal is to develop the best players they can. If you want to be part of that, you have to be all in.

http://www.stltoday.com/sports/high-school/boys-soccer/area-players-grapple-with-choice-to-play-academy-or-high/article_746645a6-0bad-11e3-8583-0019bb30f31a.html

[brianstl]

I'll post this here because it is a soccer thread but it's about the decision HS players have to make between US Dev Acadamy clubs and their HS. I don't really see the issue, it's not US Soccers problem to make sure HS sports are strong. Their goal is to develop the best players they can. If you want to be part of that, you have to be all in.

http://www.stltoday.com/sports/high-school/boys-soccer/area-players-grapple-with-choice-to-play-academy-or-high/article_746645a6-0bad-11e3-8583-0019bb30f31a.html

The problem with developing players hasn't been the high schools. If that was the case we should suck at every worldwide sport. We seem to do ok in track, basketball, hockey, etc without stopping the top kids from playing at the high school level.

The US high school system didn't ruin Vedad.

The problem is that before the kids reach high school too many of the coaches in the US system and the parents place the importance of winning far above skill development.

[kwyjibo]

The US high school system didn't ruin Vedad.

Horrible example. Vedad was in academy training for a professional team in Switzerland BEFORE he came to the U.S. I am sure there were good things about H.S., SLU, and MLS for Vedad. He probably was more rounded and saw more things. But, he did not get better until he went to Paris St. Germain and to some extent Aachen. Even then he was not a star until his athletic skills and scoring instincts (no doubt honed in the SLU/MLS years) were matched with a style of play that let him shine--with Ba and Obasi at Hoffenheim.

He still is not a great technique/fundamentals guy (I did see a great pass by him recently but still not his strength) but he has great reflexes and has learned to anticipate in the box.

My nephews are living, breathing examples of what happens when you focus ages 5-15 on winning. You play a lot of soccer, you only get marginally better, and then you get burned out. My oldest nephew chose to focus on academics even though he could have played on a lower level D-1 team (before he was a freshman in H. S. he had interest from several top 25 programs).

[Pistol]

Looks like I'll have three people coming with me to tomorrow night's game. I thought I'd be solo but my wife decided to join and invite a couple friends. $5 tickets and nothing else going on. Should be a beautiful night here, too. Low 70s, clear. I haven't seen SLU soccer play in a long time, so I'm really looking forward to this.

Anything in particular I should be looking out for? I know Kristo's the stud, but that's about it.

[brianstl]

Horrible example. Vedad was in academy training for a professional team in Switzerland BEFORE he came to the U.S. I am sure there were good things about H.S., SLU, and MLS for Vedad. He probably was more rounded and saw more things. But, he did not get better until he went to Paris St. Germain and to some extent Aachen. Even then he was not a star until his athletic skills and scoring instincts (no doubt honed in the SLU/MLS years) were matched with a style of play that let him shine--with Ba and Obasi at Hoffenheim.

He still is not a great technique/fundamentals guy (I did see a great pass by him recently but still not his strength) but he has great reflexes and has learned to anticipate in the box.

My nephews are living, breathing examples of what happens when you focus ages 5-15 on winning. You play a lot of soccer, you only get marginally better, and then you get burned out. My oldest nephew chose to focus on academics even though he could have played on a lower level D-1 team (before he was a freshman in H. S. he had interest from several top 25 programs).

Vedad spent less than 10 months in the program in Switzerland. Pro teams in Europe spend their time developing their players in their youth programs.

The point isn't that playing at Roosevelt made Vedad a better player. Roosevelt is one of the worst high school programs. It didn't make him better. The point is that playing 2 and 1/2 months in high school per year isn't going to ruin anyone as a player. Vedad's foundation as a player was already built. Just as the foundation is already built for the kid's being impacted by the development program changes.

If the development program really wanted to improve itself it would spend more energy improving how it operates before kids reach high school. Choosing to go a ten month season that doesn't allow kids to play in high school isn't going to fix any problems. In fact, it might make some problems worse by forcing some kids to opt out of the program.

[slufanskip]

Vedad spent less than 10 months in the program in Switzerland. Pro teams in Europe spend their time developing their players in their youth programs.

The point isn't that playing at Roosevelt made Vedad a better player. Roosevelt is one of the worst high school programs. It didn't make him better. The point is that playing 2 and 1/2 months in high school per year isn't going to ruin anyone as a player. Vedad's foundation as a player was already built. Just as the foundation is already built for the kid's being impacted by the development program changes.

If the development program really wanted to improve itself it would spend more energy improving how it operates before kids reach high school. Choosing to go a ten month season that doesn't allow kids to play in high school isn't going to fix any problems. In fact, it might make some problems worse by forcing some kids to opt out of the program.

And ... that's what the US Dev. Acadamy is trying to do also, develop their players in their youth program. I believe the US system has identified problems with the way their system previously worked, ie... too many games, not enough training, etc....

St. Louis HS soccer may have some of the best coaching in the country, I don't know. You seem to be looking at St. Louis and deciding if it works in St. Louis it works everywhere ... and it doesn't. They want the kids in their system, learning their way, not their way plus what any one of a thousand coaches teaches.

Additionally, if it's been working so well ... how come I can count all the elite players the US has developed over the last 20 years on 1 hand ... possibly no hands. They are trying to do better, the best kids have some tough decisions to make ... so be it

[RUBillsFan]

I found this interesting blog post on SLU soccer ticket prices:

http://pttheislander.blogspot.com/2013/09/is-slu-charging-too-much-for-soccer.html

I'm not sure a $3 or $5 different matters all that much and attendance is probably more driven by marketing, etc. The author makes some interesting points thought and I was surprised to see that $10 a ticket makes SLU one of the priciest in the country.

I agree with the point that more fans play less is better than fewer fans paying more even if the revenue is slightly higher from fewer fans. There are all sorts of ancillary benefits and revenue to greater attendance (parking & concession $$, PR, better atmosphere).

[kwyjibo]

Dartmouth had $10 soccer tickets and it definitely kept me away (although not all game are pay as weeknights are no ticket games). This year it is $7 and I will go once or twice. I think they heard loud and clear that $10 was too much but it is hard to say as there may be fewer casual fans.