Player Progress

[doowop]

Many people talk about how good RM is at developing big men. What about the other positions? Other than BC, what Billiken has progressed steadily after playing for RM? KL and TL were all conference when RM took over and he turned them into mediocre players. KC has regressed in his senior year, CR has not yet developed into a reliable player, and CS never got better while he was here. CE, RL, DE, MM, and even KM have been inconsistent this year, at best. KM was very good as a sophomore but is struggling at this point. RM recruited CE and RL knowing their strength was as outside shooters. That is their strength. Just because a player is tall does not mean that player has to play inside. Just as KC should not be made to do something with which he is uncomfortable (taking charge in a game and shooting more), RL should not be made to do something that hinders his effectiveness. Get some good big men and let RL play outside. There are posters on this board who said we should be going after more bigs at a time when we were recruiting guards and forwards. Now it is apparent they were right. Without BC next year, we may not have an inside game. DE should not be expected to fill that roll. We need a true big man who can play. We saw the potential we had when WR was playing. Now, WR did show progress in his play. Maybe I'm wrong in my assessments but, who has really improved their game and maintained it other than BC and WR?

[WestCoastBilliken]

I think BC, CE, DE, MM, JJ have all made big gains......

[Billikan]

Many people talk about how good RM is at developing big men. What about the other positions? Other than BC, what Billiken has progressed steadily after playing for RM? KL and TL were all conference when RM took over and he turned them into mediocre players. KC has regressed in his senior year, CR has not yet developed into a reliable player, and CS never got better while he was here. CE, RL, DE, MM, and even KM have been inconsistent this year, at best. KM was very good as a sophomore but is struggling at this point. RM recruited CE and RL knowing their strength was as outside shooters. That is their strength. Just because a player is tall does not mean that player has to play inside. Just as KC should not be made to do something with which he is uncomfortable (taking charge in a game and shooting more), RL should not be made to do something that hinders his effectiveness. Get some good big men and let RL play outside. There are posters on this board who said we should be going after more bigs at a time when we were recruiting guards and forwards. Now it is apparent they were right. Without BC next year, we may not have an inside game. DE should not be expected to fill that roll. We need a true big man who can play. We saw the potential we had when WR was playing. Now, WR did show progress in his play. Maybe I'm wrong in my assessments but, who has really improved their game and maintained it other than BC and WR?

We are 16-5 and at various times this year almost every player on our roster has looked better and played more effectively. KM has shown some rust but he has also played some very good ball. Our other two young soph guards are playing for the most part much more solid all around games and much better defense. Conklin has been developed into a truly effective inside player even though he gives up 4 inches or more. Evans is a much better defender and overall player who is still a soph so he has his ups and downs but he is stronger and better. Loe is much improved on defense and on the interior and he is playing with more toughness and he is still a soph. Ellis is playing hugely better on the defensive end and is playing tougher on the boards. You have no idea what your are talking about!

[jbizzle09]

Many people talk about how good RM is at developing big men. What about the other positions? Other than BC, what Billiken has progressed steadily after playing for RM? KL and TL were all conference when RM took over and he turned them into mediocre players. KC has regressed in his senior year, CR has not yet developed into a reliable player, and CS never got better while he was here. CE, RL, DE, MM, and even KM have been inconsistent this year, at best. KM was very good as a sophomore but is struggling at this point. RM recruited CE and RL knowing their strength was as outside shooters. That is their strength. Just because a player is tall does not mean that player has to play inside. Just as KC should not be made to do something with which he is uncomfortable (taking charge in a game and shooting more), RL should not be made to do something that hinders his effectiveness. Get some good big men and let RL play outside. There are posters on this board who said we should be going after more bigs at a time when we were recruiting guards and forwards. Now it is apparent they were right. Without BC next year, we may not have an inside game. DE should not be expected to fill that roll. We need a true big man who can play. We saw the potential we had when WR was playing. Now, WR did show progress in his play. Maybe I'm wrong in my assessments but, who has really improved their game and maintained it other than BC and WR?

Let's take a look at some, shall we:

1. Cody Ellis: As a frosh coming off of a plane, he averaged 10.5 PPG, 4.9 RPG, .376 FG%, .300 3FG%, .635 FT%, 28.0 MPG. As a junior, he is now averaging 11.0 PPG, 3.7 RPG, .429 FG%, .400 3FG%, .824 FT %, 22.0 MPG. So, now we have Cody with much increased shooting percentages and greater scoring, and doing it with 6 MPG less this season. Also, as anyone has noticed, he probably leads the nation in charges taken. I would say he has definitely developed since arriving.

2. Jordair Jett: As a frosh, he averaged 7.5 PPG, 3.1 RPG, 2.4 APG, 2.5 TOV, 1.4 SPG, .423 FG%, .611 FT%, 24.1 MPG. This season, he is averaging 6.7 PPG, 2.4 RPG, 2.3 APG, 1.4 TOV, 1.2 SPG, .500 FG%, .559 FT%, 21.9 MPG. When taking into consideration that his minutes are slightly down this season, he is pretty much averaging the same in points, rebounds, steals and assists. However, he has cut his turnovers down, increased his shooting percentage, and while his FT% is still below average, he is getting to the line at a greater frequency. Another player that has progressed since arriving.

3. Rob Loe: His freshman season, he averaged 6.7 PPG, 3.5 RPG, 0.7 BPG, 1.7 TOV, .389 FG%, .337 3FG%, .606 FT%, 17.5 MPG. This season, his stats are 5.4 PPG, 3.0 RPG, 0.5 BPG, 0.8 TOV, .462 FG%. .377 3FG%. .625 FT%, 15.4 MPG. He is pretty much averaging the same stats when taking minutes into consideration. However, he is shooting at a much improved percentage and turning the ball over far less. He is another player I would say has shown improvement and development.

I can go on about other players and such, but I would state that how is it possible to not have any improvement and development on this team when they are currently 16-5 and last year's squad went 12-19? We all know the story about last season, but we only added one regular rotation guy this year (KM). Obviously, other players have had to develop and improve.

[David King]

As usual, everybody is focusing on offense. This makes sense, because the majority of stats are all offense oriented, and points must be scored in order to win games. But, I'm pretty sure that Coach Majerus is more interested in the defensive development of his players. Pretty much everybody on the team has improved in this regard compared to last year. Cody Ellis and Mike McCall are excellent examples of this.

The success of the Billikens this year is mainly a result of the team defense. Without that, the rest doesn't matter much.

[slu72]

I can make a case for improvement with just about everyone except KC and CR. But they haven't been giant leaps forward except for BC and CE (mostly in his grasping how different D1 ball is from international ball). Development also puts responsibility on the player. BC's obviously got a tremendous work effort, whereas CR doesn't appear to get how much work it takes to develop one's raw athletic skills. I think this is what RM meant when he said, "we've got guys who think of themselves as BB players, but don't want to play BB." For RM playing BB means becoming a terror on D, stay disciplined on O, bring it every game, and grow a set. I don't think KC's grown a set in his four years here. There have been times where KC amazes you with a baseline drive and a drop in basket, or put up a really good looking 3 shot. Those plays tell you he's got the tools, yet he consistently fails to use them. This must have something to do w/ his personality, eg mild mannered, or he just doesn't drink enough of C. Sheen's tiger blood. And one other point, RM had recruited the personnel to make this team a top 10 squad until WR left. If we can somehow find a guy like that next year, we will be a regular in the rankings. But sticking w/ this season, we just need to see guys like RL, JJ, MM, and DE continue to make progress in every game.

[Taj79]

Numbers are nice but do they tell the true story? I'd say no as evidenced by my running belief that, despite numbers, certain mid-range games are lacking. We've talked about some kids providing intangibles and stuff. You can measure Conk's performance by the numbers alone but that would not do justice to his total game and court presence.

I think short of two players, all are making progress, and even to say the other two are not is not totally true. I am making a blind leap there on our three freshmen (JM, GG and ET). All the others have had some very good shining moments, and some less-than-stellar brain dead moments as well. I attribute that to the fact that they are kids and still learning. My oldest kid is 24 and she's still learning. I'm stil learning.

I like every kid on this team and believe they all could have a role of some sort no matter their minutes played. All are better than they were over their first day on campus and on court. Some are not where I expected them to be and maybe that's the fault of my expectations. This is an exciting season -- best in some time.

[Cowboy]

-i see vast improvement in CE if nowhere else on the boards and defensively

-while RL did not have to play inside in the international game, he is going to have to at SLU and to me is certainly making progress while still shooting well from the outside

-BC, enough said

-i echo billikan and taj in that everyone has shown spurts of great play, the key imo is to move those times from spurts to more often to consistent

[someoneelse]

While stats can be picked apart and re-packaged to fit your agenda, whatever side you are on, I submit that the team is better. Evaluating each individual part does not tell near enough of the story.

[JettFlight5]

Jordair Jett between this year and last may be one of the most improved players anywhere. He's learning to go to his strengths offensively, and he is becoming a shut-down perimeter defender. He may never average 18, but he's had a pretty darn good year.

[billiken_roy]

I can make a case for improvement with just about everyone except KC and CR. But they haven't been giant leaps forward except for BC and CE (mostly in his grasping how different D1 ball is from international ball). Development also puts responsibility on the player. BC's obviously got a tremendous work effort, whereas CR doesn't appear to get how much work it takes to develop one's raw athletic skills. I think this is what RM meant when he said, "we've got guys who think of themselves as BB players, but don't want to play BB." For RM playing BB means becoming a terror on D, stay disciplined on O, bring it every game, and grow a set. I don't think KC's grown a set in his four years here. There have been times where KC amazes you with a baseline drive and a drop in basket, or put up a really good looking 3 shot. Those plays tell you he's got the tools, yet he consistently fails to use them. This must have something to do w/ his personality, eg mild mannered, or he just doesn't drink enough of C. Sheen's tiger blood. And one other point, RM had recruited the personnel to make this team a top 10 squad until WR left. If we can somehow find a guy like that next year, we will be a regular in the rankings. But sticking w/ this season, we just need to see guys like RL, JJ, MM, and DE continue to make progress in every game.

so because cassity doesnt look to score he "hasnt grown a set"?

incredible. i can point far better instances of weaknesses of just about every player on the team that would be a better example than cassity not being a scorer to question who really "grew a set".

the truth is cassity has done as much if not more to bring the success of this team to the forefront EXCEPT scoring in the last 3+ years. to insinuate otherwise is very shortsighted. i dont wish to pick on you slu72. you just happen to be the most recent to opine this idiocy. you all got your wish. cassity floor time has been minimized. why not just leave it alone and let the kid finish his career. i say we are darn lucky that kyle cassity is a billiken and has remained the glue with conklin for the last four years. without the two of them, i sincerely doubt this program would be where it is today.

[2010andBeyond]

This has to be the stupidest op in awhile. We won 11 games last year and have gained one player, who himself hasn't gone above and beyond expectations, and now are on track to make the tournament for the first time in over 10 years.

Have players improved? In the words of the great Ace Ventura, "gee, let me think...."

[2010andBeyond]

Also, let's not turn every thread into a KC spat. Thank you for your understanding.