Bernies article on Saturday

[cheeseman]

If you have not read Bernies article today you might want to - he recognizes some benefits for SLU to move to the A10 but then goes on to list that the A10 is not good in soccer, the teams in the league are not as attractive draws as the MVC because the A10 is not a regional conference for SLU - there is that regional outlook again popping up and he questions SLU's committment to giving enough money to Brad to really compete at a high level. Clearly, Bernie has decided that no matter what SLU does - new arena, seeking out a conference that plays better bb, and the hiring of a committed coach is not enough. My guess, nothing SLU does will ever be enough for Bernie. He simply has made his mind up that he is mad at SLU or Father B. and everything will always be a half glass empty attitude on his approach. Time to move on regarding him and others and simply focus on our future,

[3star_recruit]

"but then goes on to list that the A10 is not good in soccer"

He might want to check out a top 25 soccer ranking

"A10 is not a regional conference for SLU"

The Big East isn't a regional conference for Lousiville or Depaul either but not one sportswriter is holding that against the defecting CUSA schools.

[slufanskip]

I haven't done a lot of research ... but as a whole the A-10 may be weaker ... but I think at the top they are just as good ... and with the addition of us and Charlotte will be better. Not only that it is probably stronger than the new CUSA. The MVC isn't that good in soccer either. I'm not sure when they became a National Soccer Power.

[jjray]

>

> I haven't done a lot of research ... but as a whole the

>A-10 may be weaker ... but I think at the top they are just

>as good ... and with the addition of us and Charlotte will

>be better. Not only that it is probably stronger than the

>new CUSA. The MVC isn't that good in soccer either. I'm not

>sure when they became a National Soccer Power.

Creighton is a national power in soccer (our former coach Warming is there). But with SLU and Charlotte in the A-10, the A-10 should be better in soccer than either the MVC or CUSA.

[pooch1918]

soccer shmocker...when's the last Bernie EVER wrote anything about SLU soccer...it's a red herring issue...DON'T NOBODY CARE 'BOUT SOCCER...'cept Brian McBride and six of his friends....

[thetorch]

The A-10 was certainly our best alternative. Bernie's comments are somewhat off base. The MVC offers no regional rivalries that we already don't have. We have not belonged to the MVC for thirty years, I saw no one complaining before that we were playing teams from farther away even though they were better, than playing poor teams in close proximity.

The A-10 will be fine in soccer. If it did bring us down so much go independent. SLU pretty much is the Notre Dame of college soccer, why couldn't we? The MVC has some strong programs like SMS, Bradley and Creighton but the A-10 is not so bad, Dayton, Duquesne, and UMASS were all ranked this year. Adding SLU to the A-10 in soccer will increase their visibilty and will ultimately improve their soccer. At worst SLU will be like Florida St in football in the old ACC, dominate the conference bea ntional power and ultimately make the whole conference better.

[tseugnekillib]

Do you think that BernieM knows that only 5 of the 10 MVC schools have men's soccer teams? I doubt it! The MVC men's soccer league has the 5 true MVC schools plus SMU, Tulsa, Western Ky, Eastern Illinois and Vandy.

I don't know if SMU and Tusla will stay in the MVC for soccer or if they will go to the revised C-USA.

btw, all 12 of the current A-10 schools have men's soccer.

[billiken_roy]

i assume you are talking about a comparison of the a-10 and big east. there is no comparison. imo with the additions of louisville, cincy and marquette along with the existing teams, they have the strongest conference in the land. top to bottom. my gosh they have last year's national champ and probably this year's with uconn plus a lot returning besides the cusa powers.

[slufanskip]

Creighton is a National power ... not the MVC.

[courtside]

Bernie is a friend, but his in depth knowledge is PRO SPORTS. That is where he has a lot of ins, and spends his time. And being the only or main columnist, that is where he should spend his time anyway. I can assure he knows nothing about soccer. Like I said, he is a friend of mine, but I personally spit up my cherrios in laughter at his mention of soccer. He got that info from elsewhere. Looks bad, I know. B is great at pro sports coverage and columns. I don't take his non-pro-sporst articles seriously. Take last week for example...he was AT the Niner game. His articles were terrific. When he is not at an event, it shows.

[slufanskip]

I am not a Bernie hater either ... but he needs to quit writing about issues he has no clue about. It is irresponsible and lazy. If he is your friend ... please ask him not to be so lazy.

[slufanskip]

Courtside ... I know you are well informed on soccer ... give him your # and please have him call you if he feels the urge to spout nonsense. You can give him good info and he won't come across looking like an idiot to the informed.

[bonwich]

Here's a Jesuit-training-inspired, wild-a$$ed concept: Rather than base your reactions on the initial post's paraphrase of what Bernie said, why not actually READ THE ORIGINAL:

"St. Louis U. in the Atlantic 10 Conference makes for a nice fit. Given what will remain in the eroded Conference USA, a switch to the A-10 is a move up for SLU in men's basketball."

(My comment: He LEADS by saying it's a good move.)

"There will be more national-cable TV showcases. More exposure to potential recruits in some East Coast markets. And the A-10 is ethically compatible to SLU; 10 of the 12 current members are Catholic institutions."

(My comment: His second paragraph is also completely positive and justification for the move.)

"There are only three reservations: (1) a move to the Missouri Valley Conference would have inspired more natural rivalries; (2) Atlantic 10 soccer is weak, but getting better; (3) will the SLU administration give coach Brad Soderberg and the program more resources to compete at a higher level?"

(My comment: Here's where it gets tricky, and here's where everyone who has posted thus far has reacted to improper information. If you look at what he actually said, HE NEVER SAID ANYTHING ABOUT MVC SOCCER. There is no implication at all that points 1, 2 and 3 are interdependent. [if there were, it would mean that he was implying that a move to the MVC was somehow the same as "giv(ing) coach Brad Soderberg...more resources. I doubt anyone would claim that.])

(His three "reservations" are, in fact, attackable as fairly tenuous, but each one is superficially justifiable. Sure, SIU, SMS and Creighton *might* be able to evolve into "natural rivalries," but what the hell is a "natural rivalry," anyway? Geographic proximity, like that between, say (insert tongue firmly in cheek), Notre Dame and USC in football? [And, as someone pointed out, it ain't like Marquette has a whole lot of "natural rivalries" in its new league.])

(And sure, the A-10 may be "weak" in soccer, but how many conferences are actually "strong."? And how many schools, even those at the top of the soccer heap, would ever make a conference-switch decision based on how it would affect its soccer team?)

(As for the "resources" thing, that's where SLU yet another time again falls short in the PR department. Bernie's been on this "resources" kick as long as he's been writing about SLU. Yet how many times have you seen or heard a SLU person out front -- on a talk show, in letters to the editor, or even in articles on SLU -- factually debunking this crap? Will Woolard be on the phone to the sports editor Monday morning rationally laying out a rebuttal? Will he or Brad go to the sports director at our "flagship" station, KMOX, and make themselves available immediately for a segment on Bernie's show to present the opposing viewpoint? Or should we just "forget about" one of the most-read, most-listened-to sports commentators in St. Louis?)

[Tonka]

Nice post, Bonwich. I agree with you. You have to remember though, that if 10 things are written and 9 are positive and 1 is negative, people will attack the 1 negative. It's what makes things like this board flourish. When I look at what Bernie wrote, the only thing I questioned was his comment about MVC creating more natural rivalries. I don't know exactly what he means, but I think the rivalries in the A-10 will be good. Personally, I could give a s#it abot soccer anyway and agree with your comment about no schools switching conferences because of soccer. The minute that happens, I'd give up completely. As far as Brad given the right resources, Bernie is questioning that, and I agree with him on that. I question that too.

The other thing I think that gets people upset is that overall the St. Louis media is awful when it comes to covering SLU. If it's not lack of coverage or importance, it's lack of informative reporting.

[slufanskip]

Reading comprehension ... did you just get in the discussion today? The response was to his statement that A-10 soccer was weak. Compared to what? The three choices have been MVC, Watered down CUSA, or A-10. That is why the comparison with the MVC. Not only that much of the Stl. media seemed to be suggesting that the MVC was the better fit for SLU for the last couple of months.

My point was Bernie has no clue ... I bet he hasn't been to more than a couple ... if any SLU or other soccer games since he has been in STl.

Please don't suggest that we can't comprehend what we read.

[cheeseman]

Those of you who are saying that Bernie's column was not that bad should reread my original post - I said he started out saying that SLU going to the A10 would provide some benefits. But where my beef was had to do with his 3 negatives - 1. A10 has poor soccer - never did I say he said the MVC had good soccer - the A10 soccer is not bad and in fact it is no worse than the MVC or many other conferences. 2. No natural teams to play - he clearly said this and clearly, the close MVC teams do not draw that well when we play them here, just look at the attendance records. 3. SLU is not committed to providing the resources to compete nationally - just once I wish he would give the facts and just once I wish Woolard would call him or anyone else on it - do your job Woolard instead of hiding in your bunker. When Romar left some columns where written by others that showed that SLU's financial committment was on par with most of the teams in CUSA. Those of you who keep trying to see the good in columns like this one are like Chamberlin with Hittler. Bernie has never been a half full glass kind of guy when it comes to SLU - for Mizzou they have to be under investigation before he says something remotely negative. Generally, I like Bernie's articles about pro sports but all I ask is that he and others write the facts not some nonsense misperceptions.

[davidnark]

Joe,

Good points, but Bernie's "resources" thing is getting old. For years, Bernie repeatedly clamored about a SLU needing to build a new arena. SLU is in the process of building a new arena--one that will cost about twice as much as Bernie probably expected--yet Bernie still will not give SLU credit. Bernie has also clamored about coach's salaries. Yet, a year and a half ago SLU was prepared to pay Romar top dollar. Now, SLU is paying a still unproven head coach nearly half a million dollars per year. (NOTE: this is not a criticism of Brad; he is great, but he does not yet have a proven track record.) Further, the administration has indicated that they will pay the money necessary to retain Brad when the time comes. Well-researched reports also indicate that our assistants receive very competitive high major salaries.

Maybe the fault lies with our AD and SID for not responding to such criticism. We arguably have the most passive SID in the business. For example, why are our AD and SID being so secretive about the A-10 expansion? They act like they are hiding government secrets.

Whatever the reason/fault for Bernie's "resources" kick, it needs to be fixed because the 95% of local sports fans who don't follow SLU closely mistake Bernie's unsubstantiated opinion for fact.

[Tonka]

David, good points. I think guys like Bernie immediately compare us to teams like Mizzou, as most of the media sees them as the hometown team. I can't remember, but where was their criticism of Mizzou during the Norm Stewart days. Maybe it was there, but I can recall so many times when our media thought Stewart was next to God. But, overall I think Stewart was way overrated and he ran a corrupt program.

[billiken_roy]

my guess on the whole "no comment" stance by all slu personell has to do more with bargaining with c-usa on exit fees and ncaa money than anything. if i was slu, i would have assumed that the way things were falling, cusa wouldnt want us in the conference anymore. so why let them think we wanted out as well? play the "we are happy where we are" card until cusa says,

"we want an all football conference and you are filling a slot we could use to get another team. please leave. here is your ncaa money, no exit money, in fact, here is a bonus. now take your happy basketball only butts and trot on to another conference".

which of course is what we wanted all along as well. a win win

where it seems doug and doug screwed up is not working our own media behind the scenes in a timely manner. the whole mvc thing should have never happened imo. and i would think if we had a good relationship with the print and electronic media it could have easily been avoided with a few well placed "let's do lunch's". we wine and dine these guys a few times, let them "in" confidentially on what is going on and the media becomes an ally in the whole mission. instead, we spent months doing damage control by being completely mum on everything.

so bottom line, i agree on david's thoughts on our pr and sid guys. it seems to me they seem to think their whole job is furnishing stats and facts for the opposition's press or something. if that is the case, i guess i have to ask who's job is the damage control stuff i discussed above then? who's job is it to network the media so we have a more friendly and supportive local media? because i dont see that happening.

[thetorch]

Agreed, I am sick of hearing of SLU's lack of commitment from Bernie. What did Father Biondi do to him to deserve his constant criticism.

I will certainly admit that admin support for SLU was lacking earlier in the decade, and even though there were claims made to become a top 50 program alot of it was not backed up. I still have problems with the marketing and Woolard in general but I think the committment to Hoops cannot be questioned anymore like that. If Biondi didn't care he wouldn't be building the arena, hiring consultants about the conference shakeup and making sure we remained in a hig quality conference. If there was no support from Biondi SLU would be; playing in the MVC or worse, playing at West Pine, and Pilz would the HC at SLU not UMSL. Days like those are over. Unfortunately Bernie has not gotten that memo yet.

[thetorch]

Excellent points, SLU is not the Pentagon. Keeping local media in the know in regards to basketball to engender some support is not going to have huge adverse affects. I believe the thinking at SLU is if we are too open the media will attempt to bring us down, will always be looking for some sort of scandal that could have more of an adverse effect on a jesuit university than say a public one. So we keep them at arms length on everything while other schools treat collumnists and reporters like they work in the program. SLU treats everyone as outsiders. SLU has gotten pretty far with this policy but just froma pr standpoint if we want SLU to take the next step in popularity around town we will have to let some people in on some of SLU's "secrets."

[bonwich]

Indeed, I read the WHOLE thread before I posted, and there are several indignant posts about the state of MVC soccer. Yet Bernie said NOTHING about MVC soccer -- merely that SLU soccer may be at a disadvantage from the CURRENT SITUATION (i.e. a full-fledged C-USA) when it moves to the A-10.

And I will reiterate that at least some of the posters in this thread either lacked comprehension of what was said or (more likely) reacted to the somewhat inaccurate paraphrase of what was said.

Most important, however, is the blatantly silly attitude about simply "moving on" from Bernie, who is arguably the most-read, most-listened-to and most-influential sports commentator in town. The "natural rivalries" and soccer issues are both unlikely to engender any passion among everyday fans, or even among many of us. They're simple to dismiss. But I ask again: Will Brad be on the next available Sports Open Line firmly but politely taking Bernie to task about the "resources" issue? "Umm, Bernie, isn't a $70M arena enough of an indication of 'resources'? Did you know I have a private plane available for recruiting?" Even if it isn't Brad, certainly *someone* from the University could stand up and rebut. (It would be pretty interesting to allow the Rev. Larry to go one-on-one with Bernie on-the-air, but they'd obviously need to employ the five-second delay.)

Yet I see none of this. If the University doesn't start tooting its own horn much louder, it's not as if anyone else is going to do it for them.

[Scrivener]

You make valid points, bonwich. But doesn't Bernie also have some responsibility for getting the facts straight? I know I've seen both Brad and Romar quoted as saying they haven't felt slighted with respect to resources. And then there's the significant commitment of the Biondi Dome, widely reported in Bernie's own newspaper.

The point is, Bernie's comment DOES come off sounding like a cheap shot to anyone who follows the Billikens a little. Or at the very least, it smacks of reportorial laziness.

I know it's Bernie's job to comment, and to stir up reaction with his commentary...but I don't think it's unreasonable for Billiken fans to take him to task when he shoots from the hip...or trots out the same old tired canards.

[slufanskip]

Enough said ... I just thought the tone of what you said was insulting. We are both saying the same about Bernie and the way SLU reacts to the negative or inacurate press.

I like your posts and enjoy reading what you have to say

[tseugnekillib]

I believe SLU played it right with not going public with the various conference negotiations. The conference switch is/was a serious business decision for SLU and they treated it as such.

When the area's major corporations like Southwestern Bell, Emerson, Anheuser-Busch, Monsanto, etc., and some large private businesses, are working on a merger or a divestiture, I don't see details or open discussions on the topic in the Post's business section.

Regarding Miklasz's consistent "resources" jab at SLU, I think that is his way of pulling on Fr. Biondi's chain. As someone else on this thread pointed out, SLU went into some athletic department budget details when hiring Coach Romar's replacement. Personally, I think Fr. Biondi has little respect for Miklasz and that is a problem for BM's ego. I don't see this scenario ever changing.