The Refs

[kshoe]

Anybody that taped the game should watch this.

AP is in the double bonus.

First Whistle (short ref):

3:25 left, SLU up 58-56. AP player drives, lowers the shoulder, Cody gets knocked down. At best its a 50/50 call but Cody gets the foul. Probably should have been a charge. Make both FTs and game is tied.

Second Whistle (short ref):

2:11 left, game tied. Loe and AP player battling for position, Loe called for a cheapie. He fouls out. AP player goes to line, makes first, misses 2nd, Bills don't rebound and now we are down 3.

Third Whistle (short ref):

1:16 left, SLU down 61-60. AP player drives and walks, some contact with the body but nothing with the arms, AP player falls to the ground and a foul is called on Cody. 50/50 call at best. Should have been a walk. Makes 1 of 2 FTs. SLU down 2.

Fourth Whistle (tall ref):

57 secs, tie game. Cassity makes his shot and AP player clearly steps over the line and ref calls it. Kudos to him for making the right call. SLU ball.

Fifth Whistle (tall ref):

16 secs, tie game. Jump ball after CS gets blocked. Good call.

Sixth Whistle (small ref):

4 seconds left, tie game. 30 feet from the basket a hand check is called. Nuff said.

Frank Spencer is name of the short ref. Those were the only calls in the last 4 minutes.

I've come to fully expect us to get screwed when we play on the road in non-con games and I have no belief that we'll get the good side of things when we play in the A-10 (one could argue we on average get the bad side of the A-10 refs) but HOW WE GET SCREWED IN NON-CON GAMES ON OUR OWN COURT IS BEYOND ME.

[dlarry]

It seemed like the refs felt they called so many fouls on AP in the first half they had to even things out in the second. AP had 9 fouls with 10 minutes to go in the first half then things slowed down.

If thats the case Ill take the second half calls next game.

[bonwich]

We screwed up. We had several chances in the last minute or so, but we lack athleticism, ball-handling, a go-to player, etc. etc.

Nonetheless, for everyone who says that the refs rarely affect the outcome of a game, I present a hand-check 30 feet from the basket in a tie game with 4.5 seconds left. (If anyone *ever* sees that happen to a major program during the course of this year, please post it.)

I trust our checkered-pants squad is going to do everything legal and/or without getting caught possible to "cheer on" that particular ref if he ever does another of our home games.

[kshoe]

We screwed up. We had several chances in the last minute or so, but we lack athleticism, ball-handling, a go-to player, etc. etc.

Nonetheless, for everyone who says that the refs rarely affect the outcome of a game, I present a hand-check 30 feet from the basket in a tie game with 4.5 seconds left. (If anyone *ever* sees that happen to a major program during the course of this year, please post it.)

I trust our checkered-pants squad is going to do everything legal and/or without getting caught possible to "cheer on" that particular ref if he ever does another of our home games.

He ref'd our first exibition game which means he's likely either local or "one of our guys." Which makes it all the more baffling why he would screw us so bad down the stretch in this game.

[JettFlight5]

This is how things have changed:

We are discussing a foul call against an OVC team that determined the game.

Ouch.

[kshoe]

This is how things have changed:

We are discussing a foul call against an OVC team that determined the game.

Ouch.

No doubt.

There are 4 things that people on this board seem to be mad at after last night's game:

1) the refs

2) the "situation"

3) the current players

4) Guy Phillips

I've said my peace about the situation and unfortunately it is what it is. Last night just crystalized how important those two guys are.

I'm not ready to start bashing the current players. They weren't supposed to be main guys and most are being asked to do things they aren't suited to do (KC being a major scorer, Loe being a major rebounder, etc.)

I could care less about Guy.

So that leaves the refs. Its one thing to make a shady call with 4 secs left 30 ft from the basket. But to do it after you've already made 3 questionable calls against SLU in the final 4 minutes. I just don't understand it.

[P.B.]

Anybody that taped the game should watch this.

AP is in the double bonus.

First Whistle (short ref):

3:25 left, SLU up 58-56. AP player drives, lowers the shoulder, Cody gets knocked down. At best its a 50/50 call but Cody gets the foul. Probably should have been a charge. Make both FTs and game is tied.

Second Whistle (short ref):

2:11 left, game tied. Loe and AP player battling for position, Loe called for a cheapie. He fouls out. AP player goes to line, makes first, misses 2nd, Bills don't rebound and now we are down 3.

Third Whistle (short ref):

1:16 left, SLU down 61-60. AP player drives and walks, some contact with the body but nothing with the arms, AP player falls to the ground and a foul is called on Cody. 50/50 call at best. Should have been a walk. Makes 1 of 2 FTs. SLU down 2.

Fourth Whistle (tall ref):

57 secs, tie game. Cassity makes his shot and AP player clearly steps over the line and ref calls it. Kudos to him for making the right call. SLU ball.

Fifth Whistle (tall ref):

16 secs, tie game. Jump ball after CS gets blocked. Good call.

Sixth Whistle (small ref):

4 seconds left, tie game. 30 feet from the basket a hand check is called. Nuff said.

Frank Spencer is name of the short ref. Those were the only calls in the last 4 minutes.

I've come to fully expect us to get screwed when we play on the road in non-con games and I have no belief that we'll get the good side of things when we play in the A-10 (one could argue we on average get the bad side of the A-10 refs) but HOW WE GET SCREWED IN NON-CON GAMES ON OUR OWN COURT IS BEYOND ME.

3:25 - That was clearly a block on Cory, he slid towards the baseline as the player was going to beat him on the low side, it was a good call.

The other calls could have went either way except the hand check foul, you have to let the players decide. That being said, we should not have let the refs decide when we took that 8 point lead, we had to hold on. I was expecting this to be a close game as should anyone who read anything about Peay and sawy our exhibition games would know we are slow, unathletic, do not defend good yet and absolutely cannot shoot the ball. Any athletic teams will give us heaps of trouble

[NH]

No doubt.

There are 4 things that people on this board seem to be mad at after last night's game:

1) the refs

2) the "situation"

3) the current players

4) Guy Phillips

At most schools the coach could be added to that list.

[kshoe]

At most schools the coach could be added to that list.

Go ahead and blame him if you want. I don't think there is a non-BCS team out there that could have the two top players yanked from them the day before practice starts and still be a good team.

[eastsidejoe]

At most schools the coach could be added to that list.

are you suggesting that RM should be added to the list? If you are, you are dead wrong.

[slufan13]

At most schools the coach could be added to that list.

we lose by 15 last night without RM

[billiken_roy]

Slufan13 could you explain your math?

[joe_davola]

I trust our checkered-pants squad is going to do everything legal and/or without getting caught possible to "cheer on" that particular ref if he ever does another of our home games.

Working on getting the floor seats as I type this.

[slufan13]

Slufan13 could you explain your math?

yeah i dont know. just an exaggeration really. still some frustration.

[kevinfootes]

This is how things have changed:

We are discussing a foul call against an OVC team that determined the game.

Ouch.

Well stated. There were obviously some horrible calls down the stretch by the clowns we hired, but the fact that we were in that position at home against a team picked to be about 3rd in the OVC is pretty bad. This team is young and green, but it's also supposed to be our deepest in terms of talent in decades. The guys on the current roster are going to have to figure it out. Disappointing for sure, but I'm confident we'll see improved play the next time out. Lesson learned about what it will take to win, now let's move on!

[eastsidejoe]

yeah i dont know. just an exaggeration really. still some frustration.

You are absolutely correct. RM made some adjustments at halftime which enabled us to compete. Roy is trying to intimidate. I give RM a lot of credit for not packing his bags already the way this University conducts its business.

[JettFlight5]

You are absolutely correct. RM made some adjustments at halftime which enabled us to compete. Roy is trying to intimidate. I give RM a lot of credit for not packing his bags already the way this University conducts its business.

I totally agree with this statement. I could see a lesser coach taking the first MetroLink train to Lambert if they stripped him of his two best players.

[apsufan82]

I've come to fully expect us to get screwed when we play on the road in non-con games and I have no belief that we'll get the good side of things when we play in the A-10 (one could argue we on average get the bad side of the A-10 refs) but HOW WE GET SCREWED IN NON-CON GAMES ON OUR OWN COURT IS BEYOND ME.

Not to add any fuel to the fire but I was at the game and the refs were absolutely horrible on both ends. AP fans have every right to be upset just as much as you guys do.

[billikenfan05]

Not to add any fuel to the fire but I was at the game and the refs were absolutely horrible on both ends. AP fans have every right to be upset just as much as you guys do.

Did you even watch the game???? I think the ref named frank called 2 fouls all game on AP. If there is a AP fan bitching about the officials they don't know the rules of basketball.

[doowop]

You are absolutely correct. RM made some adjustments at halftime which enabled us to compete. Roy is trying to intimidate. I give RM a lot of credit for not packing his bags already the way this University conducts its business.

I agree with you on this. But remember, RM turned off many people in the administration by his rudeness, BIG TIME! This may be one way of getting back at him even though it meant ruining/delaying the college careers of two players. In the mid 1980's I was told by someone close to the situation that one reason Craig Upchurch was denied admission to SLU was that some administrator/s did not like coach Grawer. I don't know whether that was true or not. I coached Upchurch in AAU ball the spring of his senior year at Beaumont and I know he was really hoping to play for SLU. This was a few years before the St. Louis Eagles came on the scene.

[apsufan82]

Did you even watch the game???? I think the ref named frank called 2 fouls all game on AP. If there is a AP fan bitching about the officials they don't know the rules of basketball.

Yes I watched the game and yes I am "bitching" about the officials. Even talking to some SLU fans after the game, they agreed with me that the officials we're, not bad, but horrible on BOTH sides. And if you are "bitching" about how the officiating cost you the game, then YOU don't know the rules of basketball. There were plenty of times when BOTH teams could have easily ran away with the game.

Do yourself a favor and take off the blue and white glasses and look at my previous post to this one and you will read where I said the refs were horrible on both ends.

[kshoe]

Yes I watched the game and yes I am "bitching" about the officials. Even talking to some SLU fans after the game, they agreed with me that the officials we're, not bad, but horrible on BOTH sides. And if you are "bitching" about how the officiating cost you the game, then YOU don't know the rules of basketball. There were plenty of times when BOTH teams could have easily ran away with the game.

Do yourself a favor and take off the blue and white glasses and look at my previous post to this one and you will read where I said the refs were horrible on both ends.

Well, a bad call with 17 minutes to go in the game that doesn't lead to free throws is a little different in magnitude than calling a hand-check 30 ft from the basket with 4 seconds left in a tie game.

Here is an article from an AP paper on the game. http://www.theleafchronicle.com/article/20101113/SPORTS7002/101112036/1006/SPORTS/Govs--defense-shines-in-64-62-win-over-SLU

This part in particular jumped out at me: "Melvin Baker soared and blocked a shot with 17 seconds left that kept the score at 62-all and made SLU to take a timeout with 15 seconds left.

Baker’s block forced the Billikens to foul and after Josh Terry sank two free throws – the last of his game-high 18 points – with 4.2 seconds left; he came down and grabbed the game-sealing steal from Kyle Cassity as the clock ran out."

How could any author argue that we were forced to foul? How could an article not mention the circumstance behind the foul call?

[billikenfan05]

Yes I watched the game and yes I am "bitching" about the officials. Even talking to some SLU fans after the game, they agreed with me that the officials we're, not bad, but horrible on BOTH sides. And if you are "bitching" about how the officiating cost you the game, then YOU don't know the rules of basketball. There were plenty of times when BOTH teams could have easily ran away with the game.

Do yourself a favor and take off the blue and white glasses and look at my previous post to this one and you will read where I said the refs were horrible on both ends.

I could say the same to you. I am contending that the refs(Specifically frank spencer) who would was jokin' it up with the Austin Peay staff and called two fouls on them the whole second half. I'm saying that this ref took the game into his own hands. I would go so far as to say he was looking for fouls to call on the Billikens. Do I contend that there were bad calls both ways? No. Do I think that 75-80% of the bad calls went in AP's favor? Absolutely. Do I think this had an affect on the outcome of the game? YES

[apsufan82]

How could any author argue that we were forced to foul? How could an article not mention the circumstance behind the foul call?

An author thats horrible at blogging and everything else he does. Kinda like your PA announcer Guy Fillips....I mean Phillips

[apsufan82]

I could say the same to you. I am contending that the refs(Specifically frank spencer) who would was jokin' it up with the Austin Peay staff and called two fouls on them the whole second half. I'm saying that this ref took the game into his own hands. I would go so far as to say he was looking for fouls to call on the Billikens. Do I contend that there were bad calls both ways? No. Do I think that 75-80% of the bad calls went in AP's favor? Absolutely. Do I think this had an affect on the outcome of the game? YES

And would this be the same ref that had a stare down contest with Loos in the second half and was just begging Loos to say something else so he could give him a technical? And of course it had an affect on the game. We won because they made a call with 4 seconds to go that is NEVER called. I'm not going to argue you that at all (as I've already stated in another thread).

I'm sorry and I mean no disrespect at all but you are absolutely crazy if you think "75-80% of the calls went AP's way. That is a ignorant and a homer statement. Read some of your fellow posters on here where even they have said as well that the officiating was bad on both ends.