Porter Moser

[Guest BillikenReport]

I know that there are examples both ways, but KY didn't have any trouble recruiting without a known heir apparent to the dufus that got canned. JC didn't have much trouble rebuilding the program from scratch.

And how did Kentucky end up with the best recruiter in college hoops?

They threw an enormous contract at him, basically making an offer he couldn't refuse.

One of the issues facing SLU after Majerus retires is how much the school wants to pay its next basketball coach.

Will SLU pay the next coach $1 million a year like it is paying Majerus?

That kind of salary will attract a certain kind of coach. You're not going to get the top of the line coach for that money. You can possibly get a successful mid-major coach -- that would probably be more than most if not all of the coaches in the Missouri Valley Conference make.

But if SLU is paying closer to $500,000 a year, the candidates are going to be similar to what was discussed before Majerus took the job: a guy like Cuonzo Martin who was an assistant coach at a Big Ten school.

So, again, you start the rebuilding process over.

[Basketbill]

Nate, your point is well taken, but I think it's more important to replace RM after he decides to leave with a big name coach. It might be that PM overwhelms the powers that exist at that time, but it also might be that the Billiken BB Program has advanced to the point of being able to shoot for the stars, at least a small star. I Hope we are so good by that point that being chosen will be very difficult.

I know that there are examples both ways, but KY didn't have any trouble recruiting without a known heir apparent to the dufus that got canned. JC didn't have much trouble rebuilding the program from scratch.

I would disagree, the reason xavier has done well despite coaching changes is that there has not been a huge change in coaching, there may be a new head caoch but the system remained relatively the same. Gonzaga had fewer changes but the same success.....We do not need a big name we need a good coach.

as for Porter going anywhere, he has a much better job now than the Head coaching job at wisc GB. I am certain that he gets paid more currently, and the best time for him to look for a job is not this year, but after next year which may well include a trip to the NCAA.

[joe_davola]

Not sure if he is doing this or not, but Porter could definitely use this as leverage in negotiating something in his contract with SLU to be the next guy in line. It's just like any job...you find a better offer, and you see if your current employer can beat that offer. I wouldn't blame him for doing this either because I would bet he has been trying to get this in his contract since he got comfortable at SLU, and for good reason. With that said, I'm sure Biondi and/or his puppet (May) couldn't care less so I'm not sure how much leverage this would bring Porter anyways.

[Clock_Tower]

And how did Kentucky end up with the best recruiter in college hoops?

They threw an enormous contract at him, basically making an offer he couldn't refuse.

One of the issues facing SLU after Majerus retires is how much the school wants to pay its next basketball coach.

Will SLU pay the next coach $1 million a year like it is paying Majerus?

That kind of salary will attract a certain kind of coach. You're not going to get the top of the line coach for that money. You can possibly get a successful mid-major coach -- that would probably be more than most if not all of the coaches in the Missouri Valley Conference make.

But if SLU is paying closer to $500,000 a year, the candidates are going to be similar to what was discussed before Majerus took the job: a guy like Cuonzo Martin who was an assistant coach at a Big Ten school.

So, again, you start the rebuilding process over.

Nate. Your post is now getting to the center of the issue: how will SLU support the basketball program. I wish SLU would become like X but I am also realistic that this will never happen until after Fr. Biondi is gone. Fr. Biondi simply does not have passion for college basketball. His counterpart at X does. Like SLU, X has a limited budget but I don't believe they have ever paid $1 million for their coach. I could be wrong, but I recall Sean Miller making around $700,000 while RM was making $1 million. Not sure what Mack is making but I don't believe X's President ever cut back their HC's salary to Brad Soderberg levels - $325,000. My guess is that is making around $500K. Thoughts?

Money alone does not guarantee success. With that said, Spoon was making around $600K, the Romar was cut back to $400K and then Brad was cut back to $325K. Also, as HC salaries decreased, money for assistant coaches remained frugal. In short, SLU does not need to pay $1 million plus for its next coach but probably should be be in $700K range. IF, and I am assuming IF, SLU agrees to pay its next coach such a figure and agrees to pay similar figures to assistant coaches, etc., then SLU should be able to find a pretty good replacement for RM. With these figures, it seems like SLU could find a better coach than Porter and/or would not need to be so scared of losing him that SLU needs to lock him up early. If, on the other hand, SLU/Fr. Biondi reverts back to $325K or $400K for its HC with frugal pay for its assistants, then Porter probably should be locked up. In short, I would rather have Porter than the next unknown Big 10 assistant coach for $325K.

Hiring your assistant coach is not a guarantee for success. SLU has done this only once since I recall - Brad Soderberg - and he turned out to be possibly our worst hire.

[slu72]

Hiring your assistant coach is not a guarantee for success. SLU has done this only once since I recall - Brad Soderberg - and he turned out to be possibly our worst hire.

This post is pure speculation on my part, but think back to when UB was let go. He came off a 20 w season and seemed relatively secure in his job. Most coaches on the hot seat get fired either shortly after the season or right after the NCAA. Not so w/ Brad, he hung on until May. He was actually on a recruiting trip when the word came down from on high to fire him. I do think this shows how out of touch Fr. B is in regards to athletics. He had a beautiful new +$80mm stadium opening in the fall but the product on the floor was going to be mediocre at best for the forseeable future due to UB's bad recruiting. I speculate the man whose name was on the arena gave Fr. B a call and said, "you need a new coach, I happen to know RM might be interested. Look into it." Click. Next thing you know UB's canned and RM's holding a press conference. Point being, if my speculation is true, having Dr. C involved as SLU's unnofficial Mark Cuban will be very helpful going forward when it comes time for RM to depart. I still think Fr. B is out of touch with what it will take to insure SLU's future success. That's evidenced by the charter issue, but I expect Dr. C to continue to voice his support and swing his weight when it comes to bettering the program. I don't think we can go cheap on RM's successor. Neither will we likely get a coach of his caliber and fame (notoriety to Broy). There aren't too many of them around and they all seem to come w/ baggage, ie RM, Knight etc. I'd like to think we have, or will have, a succession plan in place. I'd also like to think that if RM thinks PM is his heir apparent, he'll step up and tell the powers to be to do what it takes to keep him here. If RM says nothing, which it appears he's doing, and wishes PM well if the UWGB job comes down, then RM may not think he's the man to take over. But hopefully his replacement will be that guy. Since, UWGB's got it's stupid list of 5 and PM hasn't said, "no thanks, take me off it.", I'm of the belief, he's gone and there will be no counter offers coming from SLU. Too bad, the guy's a hell of a recruiter.

[BIG BILL FAN]

I would disagree, the reason xavier has done well despite coaching changes is that there has not been a huge change in coaching, there may be a new head caoch but the system remained relatively the same. Gonzaga had fewer changes but the same success.....We do not need a big name we need a good coach.

as for Porter going anywhere, he has a much better job now than the Head coaching job at wisc GB. I am certain that he gets paid more currently, and the best time for him to look for a job is not this year, but after next year which may well include a trip to the NCAA.

Staying at SLU makes sense for Porter whether he is named the future head coach or not. If this team performs like many feel in the next few years (top 20 rankings), Porter's stock is only going to go up.

[billiken_roy]

I was told Thorpe was the lead recruiter for Willie after the coaching change, but Soderberg didn't recruit Willie.

It's not a big deal. I always thought Brad and AT were recruiting Willie before the coaching change, but I was wrong.

i have it from an extremely good source this morning that willie reed made an unofficial visit to saint louis university when he was a sophomore in high school. Now how would that be possible without soderberg and Thorpe being involved?

[ACE]

i have it from an extremely good source this morning that willie reed made an unofficial visit to saint louis university when he was a sophomore in high school. Now how would that be possible without soderberg and Thorpe being involved?

Kudos to Sodie. He was looking ahead to try to find a good back-up for Obi and Horace.

[billiken_roy]

Kudos to Sodie. He was looking ahead to try to find a good back-up for Obi and Horace.

i think the credit is likely angres. and i totally believe that moser could have and likely was recruiting him to to come to illinois state prior to coming to slu. and then continued to recruit him when porter came to slu with angres.

[Taj79]

Nice "sustainability" discussion.

Keeping Porter is no more a guarantee to continued success than it is to hire a guy at some contrived salary plateau like $1 million. To me, the key remains identifying talent and then fitting it into your system along with getting the kids' buy-in. As I said in a previous thread, I believe Brian Gregory did not have the total buy-in from his senior point guards coming down the stretch. He lost games because of it IMO. Rich Grawer's final year had kis walking off the court in the middle of games; Melvin Robinson was better than anyone else in his mind. Eighteen-year-old John Wall publicly disagreeing with his head coach (early on and it was Calipari).

The lie of a mid-major or even a low-high major is complicated by the fact that the studs are all going to go where they want to go. Five punks declared from UK this past week --- I don't want those kids. I want four-year kids, and to find them, you got to have a hellova talent evaluator and then a guy who's confident in his system. Then you need player loyalty. That is a tough roll of the dice to come up with in today's college BB atmosphere.

Ouside of Randy Bennett, we aren't exactly the cradle for assistant coaches, either. Porter could recruit at ISU as I recall, did he get fired because he couldn't game coach???? I don' know ---- I'm just asking.

[billiken_roy]

Nice "sustainability" discussion.

Keeping Porter is no more a guarantee to continued success than it is to hire a guy at some contrived salary plateau like $1 million. To me, the key remains identifying talent and then fitting it into your system along with getting the kids' buy-in. As I said in a previous thread, I believe Brian Gregory did not have the total buy-in from his senior point guards coming down the stretch. He lost games because of it IMO. Rich Grawer's final year had kis walking off the court in the middle of games; Melvin Robinson was better than anyone else in his mind. Eighteen-year-old John Wall publicly disagreeing with his head coach (early on and it was Calipari).

The lie of a mid-major or even a low-high major is complicated by the fact that the studs are all going to go where they want to go. Five punks declared from UK this past week --- I don't want those kids. I want four-year kids, and to find them, you got to have a hellova talent evaluator and then a guy who's confident in his system. Then you need player loyalty. That is a tough roll of the dice to come up with in today's college BB atmosphere.

Ouside of Randy Bennett, we aren't exactly the cradle for assistant coaches, either. Porter could recruit at ISU as I recall, did he get fired because he couldn't game coach???? I don' know ---- I'm just asking.

it is my opinion that illinois state just acted prematurely. they expected too much too soon and didnt give porter's recruits time to come together and grow up. raising the talent level in bloomington illinois in the mvc isnt an easy task and i believe takes a couple waves of recruiting classes to reach the level needed to succeed. he should have been given more time to win and got a raw deal.

moser does a lot of the substitution patterns, he does at least 1/3 of the advance game work we know. you can watch him at timeouts giving rickma his opinion. obviously he is more than just a salesman recruiter.

[Hawk]

Nice "sustainability" discussion.

Keeping Porter is no more a guarantee to continued success than it is to hire a guy at some contrived salary plateau like $1 million. To me, the key remains identifying talent and then fitting it into your system along with getting the kids' buy-in. As I said in a previous thread, I believe Brian Gregory did not have the total buy-in from his senior point guards coming down the stretch. He lost games because of it IMO. Rich Grawer's final year had kis walking off the court in the middle of games; Melvin Robinson was better than anyone else in his mind. Eighteen-year-old John Wall publicly disagreeing with his head coach (early on and it was Calipari).

The lie of a mid-major or even a low-high major is complicated by the fact that the studs are all going to go where they want to go. Five punks declared from UK this past week --- I don't want those kids. I want four-year kids, and to find them, you got to have a hellova talent evaluator and then a guy who's confident in his system. Then you need player loyalty. That is a tough roll of the dice to come up with in today's college BB atmosphere.

Ouside of Randy Bennett, we aren't exactly the cradle for assistant coaches, either. Porter could recruit at ISU as I recall, did he get fired because he couldn't game coach???? I don' know ---- I'm just asking.

That's what worries me about Porter. He's been a coach before and he couldn't cut it. Don't forget the reason we have him was because he got fired. I also don't necessarily buy into the "he has all these years under Majerus now, so he'll be better" argument. The games the past couple of years where Porter coached with RM out, we lost I believe. He can recruit. His team the year after he left almost won the MVC tourney. He's nice guy for sure, but can he coach?

[billiken_roy]

That's what worries me about Porter. He's been a coach before and he couldn't cut it. Don't forget the reason we have him was because he got fired. I also don't necessarily buy into the "he has all these years under Majerus now, so he'll be better" argument. The games the past couple of years where Porter coached with RM out, we lost I believe. He can recruit. His team the year after he left almost won the MVC tourney. He's nice guy for sure, but can he coach?

come on just say it. he's no bill self.

[moytoy12]

come on just say it. he's no bill self.

Fact: Bill Self will be walking on to the Kansas team next year and act as player/coach.

[slufanskip]

That's what worries me about Porter. He's been a coach before and he couldn't cut it. Don't forget the reason we have him was because he got fired. I also don't necessarily buy into the "he has all these years under Majerus now, so he'll be better" argument. The games the past couple of years where Porter coached with RM out, we lost I believe. He can recruit. His team the year after he left almost won the MVC tourney. He's nice guy for sure, but can he coach?

plenty of good coaches have been fired. Why would a coach not be better after spending a few years learning from someone who is widely thought of as one of the best teachers in the game?