RUBillsFan Posted December 27, 2009 Share Posted December 27, 2009 I was reading this Bernie article yesterday on St. Louis Sports all-decade teams. http://www.stltoday.com/stltoday/sports/co...2D?OpenDocument He does not go into college sports and does not list an all-Billiken team for the decade, but it got me wondering who would be on the all decade team. Here are my picks. Feel free to reply with your picks or some names that I missed. I'm going 13 scholarship players + 2 walk ons. 1: Marque Perry 2: Kevin Lisch 3: Tommie Liddell 4: Willie Reed 5: Ian Vouyoukas Bench: Josh Fisher, Kwamain Mitchell, Reggie Bryant, Justin Love, Maurice Jeffers, Justin Tatum, Luke Meyer, Izik Ohannon, walk-ons Phillip Hunt & Wendell Bennett. Lack of quality big men is pretty awful for the decade. Also it is tough to weigh players who played all 4 years during the decade vs those with only 1 or 2 years. For example, Justin Love only played a half a season in the 'aughts.' I included him because that half season was spectacular and lead us to a conf tournament championship and the NCAAs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clock_Tower Posted December 27, 2009 Share Posted December 27, 2009 I was reading this Bernie article yesterday on St. Louis Sports all-decade teams. http://www.stltoday.com/stltoday/sports/co...2D?OpenDocument He does not go into college sports and does not list an all-Billiken team for the decade, but it got me wondering who would be on the all decade team. Here are my picks. Feel free to reply with your picks or some names that I missed. I'm going 13 scholarship players + 2 walk ons. 1: Marque Perry 2: Kevin Lisch 3: Tommie Liddell 4: Willie Reed 5: Ian Vouyoukas Bench: Josh Fisher, Kwamain Mitchell, Reggie Bryant, Justin Love, Maurice Jeffers, Justin Tatum, Luke Meyer, Izik Ohannon, walk-ons Phillip Hunt & Wendell Bennett. Lack of quality big men is pretty awful for the decade. Also it is tough to weigh players who played all 4 years during the decade vs those with only 1 or 2 years. For example, Justin Love only played a half a season in the 'aughts.' I included him because that half season was spectacular and lead us to a conf tournament championship and the NCAAs. Good topic. Nothing against TL but I would take Jeffers' senior year over any of TL's 4 years. WR also has a ton of potential but last year he wasn't so great and this, he's been quite good, but after only the early part of the season (no conference games) it's really hard to list him. If January 2010 starts a new decade, then I'd have to say No to WR. Chris Sloan would be the PF and Jeffers the 3 guard in addition to MP, KL and IV on my list with an honorable mention to Drejaj and Luke Meyer for their efforts not readily seen in the statistics. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GOSLU68 Posted December 27, 2009 Share Posted December 27, 2009 Good topic. Nothing against TL but I would take Jeffers' senior year over any of TL's 4 years. WR also has a ton of potential but last year he wasn't so great and this, he's been quite good, but after only the early part of the season (no conference games) it's really hard to list him. If January 2010 starts a new decade, then I'd have to say No to WR. Chris Sloan would be the PF and Jeffers the 3 guard in addition to MP, KL and IV on my list with an honorable mention to Drejaj and Luke Meyer for their efforts not readily seen in the statistics. For once I would agree with Bernie; we had a few good players but it was a decade we were waiting to be over. RM is bringing us a new level of talent and very few of your players would be starters for the Bills in this next decade Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quality Is Job 1 Posted December 27, 2009 Share Posted December 27, 2009 For once I would agree with Bernie; we had a few good players but it was a decade we were waiting to be over.What do you mean? Miklasz didn't have anything to say about the Billikens' all-aughts team. That list was RUBills' compilation. I think we should establish some parameters. For example, I would consider the decade to be defined by the seasons ending between 2000 and 2009. I don't break it up into half seasons. Baseball and football may lend themselves to calendar years, but basketball doesn't. Therefore, Romar's first season, 1999-2000, is the first season eligible for consideration, and last season, 2008-09, is the last one eligible. This season belongs to the '10s. Furthermore, I like to consider only players whose careers ended between 2000 and 2009. That means that I would make all of the current Billikens ineligible for the aughts team. So, here we go: Guards: Marque Perry Kevin Lisch Justin Love Bigs: Matt Baniak Ian Vouyoukas Bench: Tommie Liddell, Maurice Jeffers, Josh Fisher, Reggie Bryant, Izik Ohanon, Chris Heinrich, Justin Tatum, and Chris Sloan. Walk-on: Phillip Hunt. Coach: Lorenzo Romar. Not a great team. The '90s team would crush the '00s team, in my opinion, and I hope that the '10s team would, too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GOSLU68 Posted December 27, 2009 Share Posted December 27, 2009 What do you mean? Miklasz didn't have anything to say about the Billikens' all-aughts team. That list was RUBills' compilation. I think we should establish some parameters. For example, I would consider the decade to be defined by the seasons ending between 2000 and 2009. I don't break it up into half seasons. Baseball and football may lend themselves to calendar years, but basketball doesn't. Therefore, Romar's first season, 1999-2000, is the first season eligible for consideration, and last season, 2008-09, is the last one eligible. This season belongs to the '10s. Furthermore, I like to consider only players whose careers ended between 2000 and 2009. That means that I would make all of the current Billikens ineligible for the aughts team. So, here we go: Guards: Marque Perry Kevin Lisch Justin Love Bigs: Matt Baniak Ian Vouyoukas Bench: Tommie Liddell, Maurice Jeffers, Josh Fisher, Reggie Bryant, Izik Ohanon, Chris Heinrich, Justin Tatum, and Chris Sloan. Walk-on: Phillip Hunt. Coach: Lorenzo Romar. Not a great team. The '90s team would crush the '00s team, in my opinion, and I hope that the '10s team would, too. that's why I would agree with Bernie-it wasn't worth the paper to wrap fish in. There was no great Billikens team in this decade; RM is going to give us players so much better than these; these guys wouldn't make RM team for the next 5 years Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
former_d1 Posted December 27, 2009 Share Posted December 27, 2009 that's why I would agree with Bernie-it wasn't worth the paper to wrap fish in. There was no great Billikens team in this decade; RM is going to give us players so much better than these; these guys wouldn't make RM team for the next 5 years the center that transfered from UAB was pretty salty when not hurt. kenny brown could be on the bench but could not play in crunch time due to free throws. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RUBillsFan Posted December 28, 2009 Author Share Posted December 28, 2009 There was no great Billikens team in this decade Marque Perry, Ian Vouyoukas, Kevin Lisch, and Tommie Liddell would beg to differ. All of them are members of the 1,000 point club and had at least 1 terrific season (Perry's senior year, IV's junior year, KL & TL's soph years). They may not have been all-americans, but for Billiken basketball they should be considered among the "greats." Now that I read what you wrote again I see you said "no great team." This is true as these Billiken greats never really had the supporting cast to make a "great team." However, you can still combine these great players to form a solid all-decade team. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RUBillsFan Posted December 28, 2009 Author Share Posted December 28, 2009 For once I would agree with Bernie; we had a few good players but it was a decade we were waiting to be over. RM is bringing us a new level of talent and very few of your players would be starters for the Bills in this next decade This topic really has nothing to do with Bernie. I mentioned his article because it is what caused me to wonder about what a Billikens all-decade team would look like. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slufanskip Posted December 28, 2009 Share Posted December 28, 2009 I would say we count any player who played from 99-00 through 08-09, whether they have graduated or not. I don't think it changes anything as none of the big three freshman would have warrented being on the team based upon their freshman seasons only. However, as a norm making it only people who have graduated would allow a 4 year Sr who graduated in 00 to be on this decade team not last and a player who's career began in 06 -07 would not be eligible for this team. It should include any player who played in the decade, but be based only upon their accomplishments in that decade. One thing that stands out in my mind is not only the lack of a 4 that would be good enough to warrant inclusion on an all decade team, but also the lack of a real 1. It's a telling reason why despite having some very good individual players in the decade, we've never really had a good team. I'm going to go with Ian V Izik O Marquee P Kevin L Tommie L Tommie over Maurice J, Reggie B and Justin Love as his best year was equal to their best and TL had 4 years. It sometimes easy to overlook how good Tommie was in 06-07 It's really sad that with the 2-3 guards we've had this decade, we never really had a decent compliment of bigs or a true pg to complete teams Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NashvilleBilliken Posted December 28, 2009 Share Posted December 28, 2009 Cool Topic. My starting five... 1) Marque Perry 2) Justin Love 3) Mo Jeffers 4) Matt Baniak 5) Ian Voyoukas Bench Kevin Lisch, Anthony Drejaj, Willie Reed, Kwamain Mitchell, Tom Frericks, Tommie Liddell Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RUBillsFan Posted December 28, 2009 Author Share Posted December 28, 2009 One thing that stands out in my mind is not only the lack of a 4 that would be good enough to warrant inclusion on an all decade team, but also the lack of a real 1. Josh Fisher wound up being a very solid PG. He holds the career assists record. However, he does not belong in the all-decade starting lineup over Perry, Lisch, or Liddell. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SShoe Posted December 28, 2009 Share Posted December 28, 2009 I would say we count any player who played from 99-00 through 08-09, whether they have graduated or not. I don't think it changes anything as none of the big three freshman would have warrented being on the team based upon their freshman seasons only. However, as a norm making it only people who have graduated would allow a 4 year Sr who graduated in 00 to be on this decade team not last and a player who's career began in 06 -07 would not be eligible for this team. It should include any player who played in the decade, but be based only upon their accomplishments in that decade. One thing that stands out in my mind is not only the lack of a 4 that would be good enough to warrant inclusion on an all decade team, but also the lack of a real 1. It's a telling reason why despite having some very good individual players in the decade, we've never really had a good team. I'm going to go with Ian V Izik O Marquee P Kevin L " Tommie L Tommie over Maurice J, Reggie B and Justin Love as his best year was equal to their best and TL had 4 years. It sometimes easy to overlook how good Tommie was in 06-07 It's really sad that with the 2-3 guards we've had this decade, we never really had a decent compliment of bigs or a true pg to complete teams If we're basing our "all-decade" team on the player's entire career, then I see nothing wrong with this squad, although including Izik is tough. I'd rather look at the all-decade team through a lens of "best players" that played at some point during this decade. Whether they played 1 season or 4 seasons, it's the best at some point. For example, although it's only 12 games into this season, Willie has played like one of the top two big men of this decade. So if you gave me 13 scholarships and told me to put together the best possible team from this decade, I'd go with: 1-Marque 2-J-Love 3-Jeffers 4-Willie 5-Ian Bench: Lisch, Liddell, Kwamain, Baniak, Fisher, Izik, Sloan, Reggie B. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davidnark Posted December 28, 2009 Share Posted December 28, 2009 So if you gave me 13 scholarships and told me to put together the best possible team from this decade, I'd go with: 1-Marque 2-J-Love 3-Jeffers 4-Willie 5-Ian Bench: Lisch, Liddell, Kwamain, Baniak, Fisher, Izik, Sloan, Reggie B. It is hard to dispute your selections, although there is a significant dearth of big men on the bench. Perhaps that is more of a reflection of the front court opportunities that this decade offered. Inclusion of Kenny Brown would help a little. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SShoe Posted December 28, 2009 Share Posted December 28, 2009 It is hard to dispute your selections, although there is a significant dearth of big men on the bench. Perhaps that is more of a reflection of the front court opportunities that this decade offered. Inclusion of Kenny Brown would help a little.I wavered on Kenny somewhat. Might be willing to swap him for Izik or Sloan, but it's difficult. Such a weak decade at the forward spot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slufanskip Posted December 28, 2009 Share Posted December 28, 2009 Josh Fisher wound up being a very solid PG. He holds the career assists record. However, he does not belong in the all-decade starting lineup over Perry, Lisch, or Liddell.come on now. Josh Fisher as a starting pg for a decade team? You just made my point ten times over. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slufanskip Posted December 28, 2009 Share Posted December 28, 2009 If we're basing our "all-decade" team on the player's entire career, then I see nothing wrong with this squad, although including Izik is tough. I'd rather look at the all-decade team through a lens of "best players" that played at some point during this decade. Whether they played 1 season or 4 seasons, it's the best at some point. For example, although it's only 12 games into this season, Willie has played like one of the top two big men of this decade. So if you gave me 13 scholarships and told me to put together the best possible team from this decade, I'd go with: 1-Marque 2-J-Love 3-Jeffers 4-Willie 5-Ian Bench: Lisch, Liddell, Kwamain, Baniak, Fisher, Izik, Sloan, Reggie B. I just don't see how you can give a spot on an all decade team for something you believe will happen. Using your criteria my team changes to Kwamain, Marquee, Tommie, Willie, and Ian. I went with Tommie over Kevin as I see Kevin as a 2 and that spot goes to Marquee. Tommie over Love and Jeffers because Tommie played 4 years and his best year was equal to either of the others best years. It really is easy to forget how good Tommie was in 06-07. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slufanskip Posted December 28, 2009 Share Posted December 28, 2009 I wavered on Kenny somewhat. Might be willing to swap him for Izik or Sloan, but it's difficult. Such a weak decade at the forward spot.just the fact that we are talking about Izik, Baniak, and Sloan as players on an all decade team says a lot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SShoe Posted December 28, 2009 Share Posted December 28, 2009 I just don't see how you can give a spot on an all decade team for something you believe will happen. Using your criteria my team changes to Kwamain, Marquee, Tommie, Willie, and Ian. I went with Tommie over Kevin as I see Kevin as a 2 and that spot goes to Marquee. Tommie over Love and Jeffers because Tommie played 4 years and his best year was equal to either of the others best years. It really is easy to forget how good Tommie was in 06-07. Actually, I'm not giving based on what I think will happen, but what is happening. Right now, Willie is the second best big of the decade. Name another forward who averaged a double-double for half a season. Izik had a few moments, but those moments were on a very very bad team. I love Tommie, but I think people forget how good Jeffers was in his senior year. In addition to being a helluva slasher, he may have been our best defensive player during this decade. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevinfootes Posted December 28, 2009 Share Posted December 28, 2009 come on now. Josh Fisher as a starting pg for a decade team? You just made my point ten times over. When did he say Fischer should be the starting PG? That's not what he typed, skip. Here's the quote: "Josh Fisher wound up being a very solid PG. He holds the career assists record. However, he does not belong in the all-decade starting lineup over Perry, Lisch, or Liddell." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevinfootes Posted December 28, 2009 Share Posted December 28, 2009 just the fact that we are talking about Izik, Baniak, and Sloan as players on an all decade team says a lot. Skip, I think you're the only one who wrote that IO should be starting on the all-decade team. I don't see him on that, save for maybe being at the nend of the bench. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ACE Posted December 28, 2009 Share Posted December 28, 2009 We had several good twos and threes - Marque, Love, Jeffers, Tommie, Kevin, Reggie... but not much else. Ian was really the only good true big. What is also apparent is that there are not a lot of good true point guards. Fisher was solid. I didn't consider Marque a true point guard. Sodie never could recruit a decent point guard. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slufanskip Posted December 28, 2009 Share Posted December 28, 2009 When did he say Fischer should be the starting PG? That's not what he typed, skip. Here's the quote: "Josh Fisher wound up being a very solid PG. He holds the career assists record. However, he does not belong in the all-decade starting lineup over Perry, Lisch, or Liddell." His remark was in response to my statement that we didn't have any pg's good enough to make the team. As far as Izik is concerned, I just felt like he had the best year (04-05 / 11.8/5.4 ) of any of the other options. With that said, it was a very close call in my mind with Sloan. Again though the fact that any of these players are even in the discussion about an all decade team says how bad the position was for the decade. Hell Willie's freshman year and first part of this season (since it actually is still 09) could easily make him the choice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slufanskip Posted December 28, 2009 Share Posted December 28, 2009 Skip, I think you're the only one who wrote that IO should be starting on the all-decade team. I don't see him on that, save for maybe being at the nend of the bench. I looked through the entire thread and didn't see your thoughts on who the 4 would be. So, give us your thoughts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RUBillsFan Posted December 28, 2009 Author Share Posted December 28, 2009 His remark was in response to my statement that we didn't have any pg's good enough to make the team. While I said Fisher does not belong in the starting lineup for the all-decade team, I certainly believe that he belongs on the bench if we are putting 13 players on the team. IMO Fisher was the 2nd best player on the team in Perry's senior year when we went to the NIT and the 2nd best player on the team the next year (to Reggie Bryant) when we made it to the NIT. The fact that he holds the all time assists record puts him (sadly) among the best PGs in the history if the Billikens. His senior year was very good all around, decent 3pt shooting (34%), good FT shooting (82%), 54 steals, 134 assists, 4.3 rpg (good for a guard), 11.7 ppg. http://www.slubillikens.com/sports/m-baskb...her_josh00.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RUBillsFan Posted December 28, 2009 Author Share Posted December 28, 2009 With the lack of quality bigs for the decade I'm beginning to wonder if we should just say screw it and go with 4 guards. Starting 1 - Marque Perry 2 - Kevin Lisch 3 - Mo Jeffers 4 - Tommie Liddell 5 - Ian Vouyoukas Fill in the bench with the rest of the best. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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