TT's write up of soccer disaster

[Clock_Tower]

"It's quite interesting to see all of these people who have such strong opinions about games they don't even attend."

Courtside

Courtside. I try to stay away from personal attacks/comments, but your attitude wreaks of superiority and elitism. Apparently, you like to fancy only yourself and Sluballs as the only real SLU soccer fans. Personally, I find such attitude disgusting.

Like Brian, whom you are trying to discredit by his lack of personally going to a game, I too have not made a game this year. Believe it or not, I walked across campus and went to several games (coached by Joey Clarke) when I was at SLU. Since then, I have cut back and now am only able to make usually one (1) game each year even though I live here locally. Last year I watched a game from home on my computer -- not sure if that counts or not for your standards. Nonetheless, I read every article I can find about the soccer Bills as well as reading the threads here on .com. And yes, I follow SLU basketball even more and go to nearly every game with my basketball season tickets. Sorry I don't measure up to your standards and thereby have an inferior opinion about the team.

Frankly, I have read so many of your excuse-making posts for DD, as well as those by sluballs, that I now question how much soccer intelligence either of you really have. If neither of you can see how the program dropped in stature under the well-liked Joey Clarke (I used to watch him play and work out with the team in Forest Park -- he was a friend and near "equal" of the kids and really treated his position as a labor of love more so than just a job), and if neither of you can appreciate how the program was revived and rebuilt under Warming (with locals not only coming from high school but transferring in) and now neither of you can see how the program has dropped so that we not only lose but get embarrassed by the likes of New Mexico (0-3), Akron (0-4), Portland (1-3) - in addition to the Tulsa 2xOT loss. Your normal and lengthy posts obsessing about whether or not DD should be using player A better at midfielder or at back and whether or not certain breaks could have gone the other way to enable our Bills to win or play to a draw is like re-arranging the deck chairs on our sinking Titanic soccer program. DD needs to not only go but go now.

BTW, I haven't been to a game yet this year but IMO we have both a problem of both a poor coaching and poor recruiting with poor coaching being much worse than recruiting. While I don't see a Brian McBride or Mike Sorber quality kid on this team, lack of effort (SaintLouBlue) I do see enough talent not to lose by 3 goals to New Mexico, 4 goals to Akron and not get outshot by 24 against Tulsa.

[slufanskip]

Where did I defend DD in my post??? And actually, prior to this season, in recent seasons, offense has been the problem, while the defense has been very good.

I post objectively. People have had all off-season to talk about who is and isn't the coach. I always discuss it in the off-season. He's the coach, so I talk about the games. I'll talk about the games that I attend and see. In this particular game, it could have gone either way or have been a draw. Any of those three results would have been a fair result. I've yet to see someone post that was there that says otherwise. And, lastly, I said in my post that no one is happy with the result. A win was expected in that game.

It's quite interesting to see all of these people who have such strong opinions about games they don't even attend.

are you talking about me?

[SLUBALLS]

"It's quite interesting to see all of these people who have such strong opinions about games they don't even attend."

Courtside

Courtside. I try to stay away from personal attacks/comments, but your attitude wreaks of superiority and elitism. Apparently, you like to fancy only yourself and Sluballs as the only real SLU soccer fans. Personally, I find such attitude disgusting.

Like Brian, whom you are trying to discredit by his lack of personally going to a game, I too have not made a game this year. Believe it or not, I walked across campus and went to several games (coached by Joey Clarke) when I was at SLU. Since then, I have cut back and now am only able to make usually one (1) game each year even though I live here locally. Last year I watched a game from home on my computer -- not sure if that counts or not for your standards. Nonetheless, I read every article I can find about the soccer Bills as well as reading the threads here on .com. And yes, I follow SLU basketball even more and go to nearly every game with my basketball season tickets. Sorry I don't measure up to your standards and thereby have an inferior opinion about the team.

Frankly, I have read so many of your excuse-making posts for DD, as well as those by sluballs,

All I'll say since I was pulled into this one is that I've had season tickets for the last 10 years and attended 90% of those games. If you are going to have any sort of opinion, at least go to more games. Then I might actually respect your opinion. Skip and I disagree on many things regarding SLU soccer but at least I know his opinion is based on the many games he has watched live. In addition, I have said fairly little regarding the merits of keeping Donigan or not so don't insinuate that I have been some wide-eyed promoter of everything that is Donigan.

[courtside]

are you talking about me?

Nope.

[courtside]

All I'll say since I was pulled into this one is that I've had season tickets for the last 10 years and attended 90% of those games. If you are going to have any sort of opinion, at least go to more games. Then I might actually respect your opinion. Skip and I disagree on many things regarding SLU soccer but at least I know his opinion is based on the many games he has watched live. In addition, I have said fairly little regarding the merits of keeping Donigan or not so don't insinuate that I have been some wide-eyed promoter of everything that is Donigan.

If you read long enough, sanity exists. ClockTower has so many incorrect assumptions in his or her posts, on several topics, that it'd take a long time to go over them, hence no replies. And, several of those have been covered repeatedly previously. It's the theory that if you repeat something several times and nobody replies assumptions become fact and opinions become validated. And for ClockTower, there are plenty of capable soccer posters here besides SLUBALLS, Skip, etc...we just had a new one from the last game. If you see the games, and post with objectivity and decent civility, those posters will have more respect for one another in the soccer threads, even when opinions are similar or different.

[Clock_Tower]

If you read long enough, sanity exists. ClockTower has so many incorrect assumptions in his or her posts, on several topics, that it'd take a long time to go over them, hence no replies. And, several of those have been covered repeatedly previously. It's the theory that if you repeat something several times and nobody replies assumptions become fact and opinions become validated. And for ClockTower, there are plenty of capable soccer posters here besides SLUBALLS, Skip, etc...we just had a new one from the last game. If you see the games, and post with objectivity and decent civility, those posters will have more respect for one another in the soccer threads, even when opinions are similar or different.

Courtside. Fair points and sorry for bringing Sluballs into this, I'm just annoyed, Courtside, at your repeated comments such as: "It's quite interesting to see all of these people who have such strong opinions about games they don't even attend." Why do you feel the need to keep questioning fans who express an opinion but who, admittedly, didn't personally a particular game or series of games. No poster is claiming to have personal knowledge when they don't. Such attitude does not exist for basketball threads where out-of-town posters read this Board, along with post-game stats, summaries and articles, and yet still feel welcome to express an opinion even though they did not personally attend a particular game. It does exist, though, on the soccer threads. Smug comments like the one above, along with your other/prior comments such as: "That's the internet though for the most part, the majority come to complain and are not to be found in the positive times" are not appreciated.

Objectivity and decent civility??? Good stuff. Seems to me that readers of this Board are smart enough to factor in a poster's knowledge and level of support, and thereby rely more heavily on comments made by some v. others, without having the poster attack and question another fan's loyalty and question if they personally attended a game or not - especially when they don't claim to have attended and even admit they did not attend. Courtside, don't confuse or equate civility with agreeing with you.

Also, count me in the camp which thinks you have a double standard about expressing an opinion about a basketball coach during the season v. a soccer coach during the season.

[courtside]

Courtside. Fair points and sorry for bringing Sluballs into this, I'm just annoyed, Courtside, at your repeated comments such as: "It's quite interesting to see all of these people who have such strong opinions about games they don't even attend." Why do you feel the need to keep questioning fans who express an opinion but who, admittedly, didn't personally a particular game or series of games. No poster is claiming to have personal knowledge when they don't. Such attitude does not exist for basketball threads where out-of-town posters read this Board, along with post-game stats, summaries and articles, and yet still feel welcome to express an opinion even though they did not personally attend a particular game. It does exist, though, on the soccer threads. Smug comments like the one above, along with your other/prior comments such as: "That's the internet though for the most part, the majority come to complain and are not to be found in the positive times" are not appreciated.

Objectivity and decent civility??? Good stuff. Seems to me that readers of this Board are smart enough to factor in a poster's knowledge and level of support, and thereby rely more heavily on comments made by some v. others, without having the poster attack and question another fan's loyalty and question if they personally attended a game or not - especially when they don't claim to have attended and even admit they did not attend. Courtside, don't confuse or equate civility with agreeing with you.

Also, count me in the camp which thinks you have a double standard about expressing an opinion about a basketball coach during the season v. a soccer coach during the season.

SLUBALLS already said, that your soccer posts will not be valued because you admittedly do not attend nor watch the games. Everyone is entitled to an opinion, but people such as SLUBALLS and others are not going to respect it when it isn't informed, nor objective, because you haven't in any way shape or form, seen any of the games. You make incorrect assumptions and try to pass them off as fact in your previous posts, about all kinds of topics, places, things, and people. Even SLUBALLS himself had to tell you that just because he didn't comment didn't mean he validated anything you said regarding him. While going to games in person whenver possible will produce the most information, multiple SLU games this season have also been available on the internet as well thus far this season. Opportunity exists to see them play. When I do not see a game, I don't post regarding a game I don't or didn't see because I wouldn't have any possible knowledge of that game.

Comparing soccer and hoops here is apples to oranges. I take part in some of the basketball discussions, but I also don't take part in many hoops threads because there is less of a need as there is for participation in the soccer threads. It's a hoops board. I'm a fan of both, and other. There are many more hoops fans here than soccer. If I was on the hoops board I'd suggest they watch some games (if they hadn't) before forming an opinion. It seems pretty simple.

Ask Skip, Sluballs, etc...about previous soccer threads over the years. Plenty of times soccer "haters" come and flame and troll for no reason other than fear of the unknown. Soccer is an unknown to them, so they fear it. Others not interested in soccer do not have that fear and they simply ignore the soccer threads, or ask questions that usually get answered well. Again, that seems simple enough. We had a poster in the past who posted here when he first joined without seeing any of the soccer....and later when he said he was able to see some of the action and comment accordingly he was accepted as the same as anyone else posting in the threads. We have informed, civil, agreeable and disagreeable soccer threads for the most part and we like to keep it that way.

[brianstl]

SLUBALLS already said, that your soccer posts will not be valued because you admittedly do not attend nor watch the games. Everyone is entitled to an opinion, but people such as SLUBALLS and others are not going to respect it when it isn't informed, nor objective, because you haven't in any way shape or form, seen any of the games. You make incorrect assumptions and try to pass them off as fact in your previous posts, about all kinds of topics, places, things, and people. Even SLUBALLS himself had to tell you that just because he didn't comment didn't mean he validated anything you said regarding him. While going to games in person whenver possible will produce the most information, multiple SLU games this season have also been available on the internet as well thus far this season. Opportunity exists to see them play. When I do not see a game, I don't post regarding a game I don't or didn't see because I wouldn't have any possible knowledge of that game.

Comparing soccer and hoops here is apples to oranges. I take part in some of the basketball discussions, but I also don't take part in many hoops threads because there is less of a need as there is for participation in the soccer threads. It's a hoops board. I'm a fan of both, and other. There are many more hoops fans here than soccer. If I was on the hoops board I'd suggest they watch some games (if they hadn't) before forming an opinion. It seems pretty simple.

Ask Skip, Sluballs, etc...about previous soccer threads over the years. Plenty of times soccer "haters" come and flame and troll for no reason other than fear of the unknown. Soccer is an unknown to them, so they fear it. Others not interested in soccer do not have that fear and they simply ignore the soccer threads, or ask questions that usually get answered well. Again, that seems simple enough. We had a poster in the past who posted here when he first joined without seeing any of the soccer....and later when he said he was able to see some of the action and comment accordingly he was accepted as the same as anyone else posting in the threads. We have informed, civil, agreeable and disagreeable soccer threads for the most part and we like to keep it that way.

Nobody in this thread is trolling, flaming or fears soccer. I used to enjoy going to the soccer games and no longer do. I no longer have expectations for the program. If you don't think that says that something is wrong with the shape of the program you are either blind or willfully ignorant. The program is down now and I don't have to be at games over the last year plus to see that. I saw that before I stopped attending games. I continue to see it with the results the program puts up.

[Cowboy]

-here is my take as an alumn and overall fan of slu, don't print it because it is probably not worth the paper you would be using

-i think i have been to one slu soccer game in my life (already got some clicking by, that is fine)

-it seems slu soccer's reputation as the ucla of soccer is gone, many reasons for it, some controllable many not, no need to rehash

-i want the program at a level above where it is today (would love it to be the program of the 1960's, but not possible)

-what is that level? not losing on homecoming, should win the a10 almost every year, deep tourney runs often and we should be able to win that title

-if DD is the person to restore the luster, get it done

-if not, find the coach that is

[moytoy12]

SLUBALLS already said, that your soccer posts will not be valued because you admittedly do not attend nor watch the games. Everyone is entitled to an opinion, but people such as SLUBALLS and others are not going to respect it when it isn't informed, nor objective, because you haven't in any way shape or form, seen any of the games. You make incorrect assumptions and try to pass them off as fact in your previous posts, about all kinds of topics, places, things, and people. Even SLUBALLS himself had to tell you that just because he didn't comment didn't mean he validated anything you said regarding him. While going to games in person whenver possible will produce the most information, multiple SLU games this season have also been available on the internet as well thus far this season. Opportunity exists to see them play. When I do not see a game, I don't post regarding a game I don't or didn't see because I wouldn't have any possible knowledge of that game.

Comparing soccer and hoops here is apples to oranges. I take part in some of the basketball discussions, but I also don't take part in many hoops threads because there is less of a need as there is for participation in the soccer threads. It's a hoops board. I'm a fan of both, and other. There are many more hoops fans here than soccer. If I was on the hoops board I'd suggest they watch some games (if they hadn't) before forming an opinion. It seems pretty simple.

Ask Skip, Sluballs, etc...about previous soccer threads over the years. Plenty of times soccer "haters" come and flame and troll for no reason other than fear of the unknown. Soccer is an unknown to them, so they fear it. Others not interested in soccer do not have that fear and they simply ignore the soccer threads, or ask questions that usually get answered well. Again, that seems simple enough. We had a poster in the past who posted here when he first joined without seeing any of the soccer....and later when he said he was able to see some of the action and comment accordingly he was accepted as the same as anyone else posting in the threads. We have informed, civil, agreeable and disagreeable soccer threads for the most part and we like to keep it that way.

Will you be answering SLUBALLS phone calls too? Please let him know that I really appreciate his posts on this board.

As for you, thanks for the laughs. Stay "objective" courtside.

[courtside]

Nobody in this thread is trolling, flaming or fears soccer. I used to enjoy going to the soccer games and no longer do. I no longer have expectations for the program. If you don't think that says that something is wrong with the shape of the program you are either blind or willfully ignorant. The program is down now and I don't have to be at games over the last year plus to see that. I saw that before I stopped attending games. I continue to see it with the results the program puts up.

Brian, people who repeatedly state opinions of things that they do not see, good, bad or indifferent will not hold the same respect to those that did see those things. SLUBALLS already covered this, as did I. Let me give you an example. If I haven't seen something, I either don't comment or I ask about the event, or game, in question. There are multiple posts in this thread that are factually incorrect, in large part to those posters posting about things they never saw. (Video, internet, in person, etc...) One could generally opine about results, but one would have no idea how those results came about, good, bad, or indifferent.

[courtside]

Will you be answering SLUBALLS phone calls too? Please let him know that I really appreciate his posts on this board.

As for you, thanks for the laughs. Stay "objective" courtside.

How many posts in this thread are you going to have that have nothing to do with soccer?

[brianstl]

Brian, people who repeatedly state opinions of things that they do not see, good, bad or indifferent will not hold the same respect to those that did see those things. SLUBALLS already covered this, as did I. Let me give you an example. If I haven't seen something, I either don't comment or I ask about the event, or game, in question. There are multiple posts in this thread that are factually incorrect, in large part to those posters posting about things they never saw. (Video, internet, in person, etc...) One could generally opine about results, but one would have no idea how those results came about, good, bad, or indifferent.

To tell you the truth it doesn't matter how the results have come about anymore. They have been unacceptable for too long. Make excuses if you want, but remember at this point that is all they are. Just because you go to most of the games doesn't give you some special insight that that makes the results different than they are. They are called results for a reason.

[courtside]

To tell you the truth it doesn't matter how the results have come about anymore. They have been unacceptable for too long. Make excuses if you want, but remember at this point that is all they are. Just because you go to most of the games doesn't give you some special insight that that makes the results different than they are. They are called results for a reason.

Nobody has made any excuses Brian. I'm not sure how else I can repeat the same thing to you again, and again. If you go to games, or watch them on the internet or on video, or practice, anything, your opinion will hold greater value to those who actually do one or some of those things. I don't voice opinions on things I haven't experienced. I'll refrain, or I'll ask others for their opinions. A team's record and NCAA result are only part of a lot of things that go on in a program, or even in that record or results. You like to voice your opinions on things you know nothing about first hand, I don't. It's that simple.

[Bleacherbutt]

Courtside, I enjoy watching soccer and attend many of the SLU games. I like reading the reviews of the games on this board and thought your summary of the Tulsa game was good. I needed instant reply to try and figure out how Tulsa scored the 1st and 4th goals but your description answered those questions for me. Continue to call it as you see it.

[brianstl]

Nobody has made any excuses Brian. I'm not sure how else I can repeat the same thing to you again, and again. If you go to games, or watch them on the internet or on video, or practice, anything, your opinion will hold greater value to those who actually do one or some of those things. I don't voice opinions on things I haven't experienced. I'll refrain, or I'll ask others for their opinions. A team's record and NCAA result are only part of a lot of things that go on in a program, or even in that record or results. You like to voice your opinions on things you know nothing about first hand, I don't. It's that simple.

They still keep score in soccer right? The results are what matter and they have been dissappointing for more than a couple years. This isn't interpretive dance. You don't have to be there to see what the results are.

[courtside]

They still keep score in soccer right? The results are what matter and they have been dissappointing for more than a couple years. This isn't interpretive dance. You don't have to be there to see what the results are.

Brian, if you have nothing to add to the soccer discussion, I'm going to move on to the soccer discussion. Again, you comment on things you do not see, in person, or on video, or in practice, or pick up, or internet, etc...and I don't. Try one of those some time.

[jimbofive]

They still keep score in soccer right? The results are what matter and they have been dissappointing for more than a couple years. This isn't interpretive dance. You don't have to be there to see what the results are.

That's a pretty major BOOYAH.

I haven't been to a game in probably 5 years, but I think at some point it is as simple as "The team's not winning, and not only that, they're getting SMOKED. Probably the coach's fault. FIRED."

I'd like it if the soccer program was a powerhouse again, but I don't really care either. My main allegiance lies w/ the basketball team. So I'll remove my notable proboscis from this pissfest now.

[courtside]

Courtside, I enjoy watching soccer and attend many of the SLU games. I like reading the reviews of the games on this board and thought your summary of the Tulsa game was good. I needed instant reply to try and figure out how Tulsa scored the 1st and 4th goals but your description answered those questions for me. Continue to call it as you see it.

Thank you. Rob and Pais had a communication problem on the last goal. But that's on Rob, he's the Senior. The first goal was a lucky goal, bouncing off of two defenders nearpost, with the ball redirecting far post, no chance for Pais. The problem was the giveaway for the seemingly harmless shot. That one was on Brown. Rob and Tim are very good players, but neither are leaders. They do better on teams with leaders around them when they can just go out and tear it up. Aranda is a tough quiet leader, but that's it. And, on a team with so many new faces, and young faces, a little more of that is needed. Jake Brown will eventually be a more complete player but at this time, his footwork has been a major problem. His physical play and aerial game are very good, as shown when he set up one of the early goals. However his giveaways in back have cost SLU several goals this season. And, Ream and Viviano are not producing constantly for all 90 minutes as opposed to previous seasons. And, as evidence of the Tulsa game, it only takes one miscue sometimes to cost you a tie or possible win. Bartolon holds on to the ball too long in alone for the easy slotted goal, and then a turnaround shortly later of a miscue under pressure and the result is flipped. The Freshman or promising, and the Seniors are solid, but the lack of talent and depth in the two in between classes has and will cost SLU at times this season. It was more magnified with Roach out of the lineup for Saturday's game.

[Clock_Tower]

Courtside. I appreciate your comments about the additional insights one receives when they personally go to a game. I don't dispute such benefits -- as I believe it to be obvious. No need to keep posting the same time and time again.

At the same time, not a single post of mine or the others (BrianStL) was about any detail which would require personal attendance. I never once made a comment about the play of particular kid about any particular play/situation on the field. Instead, you somehow confuse the need for personal attendance with the ability to be a fan of the SLU soccer program and/or to comment about the program. A non-positive comment about the direction/state of affairs of the soccer program from someone who doesn't personally attends all the games equates to a "troll" in your mind. How sad. Speaking of trolls, based upon my 1500 plus prior posts, what suggests in any of my posts that I might have a personal allegiance to another soccer program or that I hate soccer in general or that I want soccer at SLU to fail.

As SaintLouBlue -- and please keep posting & sorry I didn't say that earlier -- mentioned, (who went to the game -- not me):

...I was unimpressed with SLU. Maybe my memory is just off and this is how SLU looked back when I was in school (granted one of those teams was a final 4 team I believe), but other than a couple of plays I thought Tulsa dominated and deserved to win. If SLU would have played like they did in the last 15min and overtime the whole game, I think the result would have been different.

Assuming these comments to be true -- and objective while based upon personal appearance --, lack of sustained effort/high level of team play suggests a coaching problem. Skip's comments this past years, again based upon personal appearance at numerous albeit not every game, that DD employs a system not suitable to his players also suggests a coaching problem. Three (3) wins and Four (4) losses against the likes of New Mexico, Tulsa, Akron and Portland -- with only one (1) of these games being close -- two (2) of the losses were by two (2) goals and one (1) of the losses was by four (4) goals to none for us -- also suggests a problem.

Instead, you personally go to the games and then leave/post comments such as "if only player A had made a better pass... if only player B had better communication.... and if only player C had not been caught out of position ... and if only player D had not been hurt/out for the game, then the result could have been different... Point of clarification: depending how the same is written/spoken, these comments can either be explanations or excuses. Either way, the results are the results and my comments ARE NOT INTENDED to be taken by you as agreement or disagreement on your explanations/excuses. I admittedly did not personally observe the same, and more imporatantly, I really only care about the results.

Finally, just to be clear, rest assured that when SLU regains its upper-tier form in D-1 soccer, I will then probably go to two (2) or quite possibly three (3) games per year rather than my once a year attendance here recently. Also, when the Bills do well, I posts favorable comments and not only say negative things on this message Board.

[courtside]

ClockTower I will oblige you this one time, and one time only. Coaching changes etc...are discussed in the off-season. I don't talk about coaching changes during the soccer season. The coach is the coach, so most of the regular soccer posters focus on the games, players, strategies, etc...of particular games, and of that season. That's how it works. If you or others want to discuss coaching changes during the season, and without having any first hand information of any kind on any topic related to the sport at SLU, go right ahead, but most people will ignore those posts as has been happening to you.

Post 45 was your first post in this thread. The answer is no, the head soccer coach at IU has no interest in coaching at SLU. Post number 62 was your next post. Your first comments to me were, "Rather full of yourself today don't you think?" This was said because I accurately commented that many people come to soccer threads to negatively voice opinions on things they do not see or experience. This thread has been no different. Next you should negative sarcasm in response to the recap of a SLU game. SLU happened to be successful in that game, so yes, it was in fact a "successful result." That seemed to bother you. You kindly illustrated my point for me, by only coming here to post negatively, after a win no less. Next you spoke of Bob Warming. I concur regarding Bob Warming's affability and success as a soccer coach at SLU and elsewhere. However you neglected to mention that Bob was around for only four seasons, chose to leave on his own, and he made the NCAA College Cup Final Four in his first season with guys that Joey Clarke recruited. Somehow to you this doesn't call for any recognition for that fact. Also, Bob had the first full time paid assistant coach in SLU history, none other than Dan Donigan. Clarke never received these benefits. This would be a good example to Brian's point, and to your point that there is a lot more to the facts than looking up SLU's record, and NCAA result. Schedule, budget for recruiting, for salaries, for scholarships, and on and on and on varies and are all among many though not all factors that are involved in the process. You speak of the drop off under Donigan. The assumption one makes is post season result, not sure. Well, Donigan's results as an assistant and his first several years as coach at SLU still count. I am on record many times as to what I believe success should be for SLU.

Post 74. Many soccer posters have left due to threads turning into this one. Some people like to come and poke fun at soccer due to fear of the unknown. Some prefer to talk about coaching changes during the season as opposed to all off season for that. So, many posters have left and have contacted me in PM to tell me so. They tired of threads turning into these things. You again proceed to compare SLU hoops and soccer which is like comparing apples to oranges.

Post 101 you suggest that I think that only SLUBALLS and myself are the only "real" SLU soccer fans here. I believe I have referenced Skip several times in this thread. I also pointed out the new poster, now two new posters in this thread alone who posted without incident. There are others plenty of others too. But, as I mentioned several soccer posters left because they were tired of the trolls and tired of those posting to only complain without having experienced anything firsthand to make their comments remotely informed. The regular soccer posters have zero problems with one another. And, plenty of times those people don't agree with one another either. Sometimes they do, sometimes they don't. You then reiterate that I keep making excuses for the coach. Again this would be incorrect. Please show me examples. After that you proceed to mention despite having seen none of the games in any way shape or form, comments about SLU's talent level. I, as do others find it interesting that you could comment on specifics such as that or other topics, without again having any experience to draw from in your conclusions. If you go to a game or watch a game and mention anything about the game, regardless of your soccer knowledge, it will be respected more by the soccer posters, regardless of what the comments may be.

Post 106 you repeat the same things and again compare soccer to hoops, and do so incorrectly in terms of fact.

Post 120 you said that you never talked about any specifics of any play or kid etc...but yes you did. Previously, in post 101 you discuss specifics in regards to coaching, talent, recruiting, all kinds of things. Again, you fall into this pattern of reading people's comments from what they experienced and then trying to debate other things with those people when you didn't experience those things. It can't be done. How can you talk specifically about things you did not see? You even use the words, assuming in this post, which is the problem you face repeatedly. You assume this and you assume that, without fact. Fact counts when forming opinions. It allows others to take your opinions more seriously. You proceed to say that when in your opinion SLU does better, you will show up to a few games. Then you say that you post positively when SLU does well, not just negatively. Well, that isn't true. In fact, just the opposite is true. You posted negatively in response to a successful game and result. Your response was whoopdeedoo one game. The few soccer posters that are left are going to post objectively about the games and season. This will include criticism, praise, and indifference, among other things. You can always ignore the threads.

[Clock_Tower]

ClockTower I will oblige you this one time, and one time only. Coaching changes etc...are discussed in the off-season. I don't talk about coaching changes during the soccer season. The coach is the coach, so most of the regular soccer posters focus on the games, players, strategies, etc...of particular games, and of that season. That's how it works. If you or others want to discuss coaching changes during the season, and without having any first hand information of any kind on any topic related to the sport at SLU, go right ahead, but most people will ignore those posts as has been happening to you.

Post 45 was your first post in this thread. The answer is no, the head soccer coach at IU has no interest in coaching at SLU. Post number 62 was your next post. Your first comments to me were, "Rather full of yourself today don't you think?" This was said because I accurately commented that many people come to soccer threads to negatively voice opinions on things they do not see or experience. This thread has been no different. Next you should negative sarcasm in response to the recap of a SLU game. SLU happened to be successful in that game, so yes, it was in fact a "successful result." That seemed to bother you. You kindly illustrated my point for me, by only coming here to post negatively, after a win no less. Next you spoke of Bob Warming. I concur regarding Bob Warming's affability and success as a soccer coach at SLU and elsewhere. However you neglected to mention that Bob was around for only four seasons, chose to leave on his own, and he made the NCAA College Cup Final Four in his first season with guys that Joey Clarke recruited. Somehow to you this doesn't call for any recognition for that fact. Also, Bob had the first full time paid assistant coach in SLU history, none other than Dan Donigan. Clarke never received these benefits. This would be a good example to Brian's point, and to your point that there is a lot more to the facts than looking up SLU's record, and NCAA result. Schedule, budget for recruiting, for salaries, for scholarships, and on and on and on varies and are all among many though not all factors that are involved in the process. You speak of the drop off under Donigan. The assumption one makes is post season result, not sure. Well, Donigan's results as an assistant and his first several years as coach at SLU still count. I am on record many times as to what I believe success should be for SLU.

Post 74. Many soccer posters have left due to threads turning into this one. Some people like to come and poke fun at soccer due to fear of the unknown. Some prefer to talk about coaching changes during the season as opposed to all off season for that. So, many posters have left and have contacted me in PM to tell me so. They tired of threads turning into these things. You again proceed to compare SLU hoops and soccer which is like comparing apples to oranges.

Post 101 you suggest that I think that only SLUBALLS and myself are the only "real" SLU soccer fans here. I believe I have referenced Skip several times in this thread. I also pointed out the new poster, now two new posters in this thread alone who posted without incident. There are others plenty of others too. But, as I mentioned several soccer posters left because they were tired of the trolls and tired of those posting to only complain without having experienced anything firsthand to make their comments remotely informed. The regular soccer posters have zero problems with one another. And, plenty of times those people don't agree with one another either. Sometimes they do, sometimes they don't. You then reiterate that I keep making excuses for the coach. Again this would be incorrect. Please show me examples. After that you proceed to mention despite having seen none of the games in any way shape or form, comments about SLU's talent level. I, as do others find it interesting that you could comment on specifics such as that or other topics, without again having any experience to draw from in your conclusions. If you go to a game or watch a game and mention anything about the game, regardless of your soccer knowledge, it will be respected more by the soccer posters, regardless of what the comments may be.

Post 106 you repeat the same things and again compare soccer to hoops, and do so incorrectly in terms of fact.

Post 120 you said that you never talked about any specifics of any play or kid etc...but yes you did. Previously, in post 101 you discuss specifics in regards to coaching, talent, recruiting, all kinds of things. Again, you fall into this pattern of reading people's comments from what they experienced and then trying to debate other things with those people when you didn't experience those things. It can't be done. How can you talk specifically about things you did not see? You even use the words, assuming in this post, which is the problem you face repeatedly. You assume this and you assume that, without fact. Fact counts when forming opinions. It allows others to take your opinions more seriously. You proceed to say that when in your opinion SLU does better, you will show up to a few games. Then you say that you post positively when SLU does well, not just negatively. Well, that isn't true. In fact, just the opposite is true. You posted negatively in response to a successful game and result. Your response was whoopdeedoo one game. The few soccer posters that are left are going to post objectively about the games and season. This will include criticism, praise, and indifference, among other things. You can always ignore the threads.

Courtside -- a/k/a self-appointed spokesman for SLU soccer

Next time don't feel the need to oblige. You add absolutely nothing but I do hope, for your sake, that this long post of yours somehow provided the venting necessary to lower your blood pressure.

Enjoy the season and I will eagerly await your post-season comments -- sarcasm intended -- which you develop based upon your personal observations. I will post nothing further in this thread but simply know that there will be a guy sitting at his computer in Chesterfield rolling his eyes and laughing at each of your personally observed excuses for DD and the Bills.

[moytoy12]

How many posts in this thread are you going to have that have nothing to do with soccer?

6.5.

I get 1/2 credit for saying that I appreciate SLUBALLS' analysis, which was serious, I really do appreciate his (or her's) input.

[brianstl]

Clock, Courtside was kind enough to oblige you this one time. You should be pretty happy. I know he said he doesn't like to talk about the coach during the season, but don't worry he doesn't like to talk about DD's job security in the off season either.

[slufanskip]

6.5.

I get 1/2 credit for saying that I appreciate SLUBALLS' analysis, which was serious, I really do appreciate his (or her's) input.

SLUBALLS' analysis are always good, so that one is a gimme and only worth .3 credit, not .5. So I'd say the correct response should have been 6.7

This is getting kind of silly.

SLU soccer is going in the wrong direction and has been for 5 years now. One tourney win in 5 years and a less than stellar start to this years season should be enough for people to form opinions on the direction of the program. One doesn't need to know if it's the coach's fault because he recruits too many left footed players or because player A is not good at the hop, skip and jump practices. It doesn't matter. What does matter are the results and the direction of the program. Fair or unfair, that's what coaches are paid to do .... acheive desired results. You don't have to go to games to see that ushering in the worst 5 years in the last 50 of SLU soccer is not the right direction .... and that is exactly what DD has done, usher in the worst 5 years in the last 50 of SLU soccer.

I can see not posting on why we've acheived so little if you haven't seen the team play, but you don't need to go to the games to be unhappy with the direction of the program.

In regards to the last game ... 2 out of 3 posters who were at the game and commented did not feel that the game was evenly matched and could have gone either way. Add to that the glaring difference in the stats of the game and I find it difficult to believe this game was evenly matched.

When does it end? When do we put our foot down and say enough. What if we miss the tourney this year? what if we make it and lose in the first round? Do we continue down the path we're on because we have a "good recruiting class" coming in. At some point we have to ask ourselves is DD the person to turn the ship around? The fact that he has led the ship to the point it needs turned around ought to be enough of an answer. I've seen the teams he puts on the field, I've seen the style of play, I've seen the inability or unwillingness to adjust. I've seen enough.