Has the game passed Majerus by?

[mn203]

After watching SLU struggle so badly the past two years you have to consider the coach. We all know that Majerus had some very good teams at Utah, but that was a while back. The game has changed and most coaches are adjusting to that change. What about Majerus? Last year SLU set a NCAA Division I record for the lowest amount of points scored in one game(20). This year SLU continues to struggle with scoring. Majerus insists that his style of play will get SLU back to the National Tournament. I honestly don't see that happening anytime soon. Maybe the game has passed Rick Majerus by and he just doesn't get it!!!

[drkelsey55]

I have you on ignore but I can guess about your post. In a word "NO" it hasn't. we are just not used to having a coach that has a long term plan that I am sure he can see clearly in his own mind.

[satrap]

I am least fond of Coach Majerus and wish he would have never been hired, but it would be impossible for a game like basketball to pass almost anyone by. It's just not that complicated and Coach is a bright enough guy by all accounts.

[QUAILMAN]

yikes have a little faith people. Do you not remember his stats from ball state, Marquette and of course Utah? The man knows college basketball and I am very excited for what is to come 2 years from now. By then, our young team will be mature and we will have even more solid recruits. I am full of optimism and predict a sweet 16 appearance within 4 years.

[MusicCityBilliken]

Certainly recruiting hasn't past him by. SLU basketball has never seen the quality of recruits that we have in this freshmen class and will have for next year.

Give RM 2 more years and if we don't see improvement then we can start having these types of discussions

[TheChosenOne]

am full of optimism and predict a sweet 16 appearance within 4 years.

I will take that bet.

[ARbilliken]

His reputation should speak for itself, but I guess i'll chime in. NO, the game has not passed him by--it's all about style. His style is different than BS and the upperclassman have to get used to that---it's not like a light switch, you can't just flip the switch and say "okay, here's the new plan-execute and win" ...It doesn't work that way unfortunately and we just have to be patient and let rickma get his guys in and develop the underclassman a little more things will improve. I agree with tarheel--give him a couple more years to work his magic and the program will be better off for it. Example---look at Michigan football. Not bad in 2007, but terrible this past year with Rodriguez---new system, young players=takes time (which is fine with me, I hate Michigan being an Ohio native--GO BUCKEYES) Give coach time and stop freaking out--too early!!! If the players would play with a little more effort; say against Xavier--would've been a more respectable game (i gave my synopsis on another thread--i think it was the NBA scout thread). These boys will win some games this year---we will beat those idiots from Dayton at home--i can feel it!

[moytoy12]

His reputation should speak for itself, but I guess i'll chime in. NO, the game has not passed him by--it's all about style. His style is different than BS and the upperclassman have to get used to that---it's not like a light switch, you can't just flip the switch and say "okay, here's the new plan-execute and win" ...It doesn't work that way unfortunately and we just have to be patient and let rickma get his guys in and develop the underclassman a little more things will improve. I agree with tarheel--give him a couple more years to work his magic and the program will be better off for it. Example---look at Michigan football. Not bad in 2007, but terrible this past year with Rodriguez---new system, young players=takes time (which is fine with me, I hate Michigan being an Ohio native--GO BUCKEYES) Give coach time and stop freaking out--too early!!! If the players would play with a little more effort; say against Xavier--would've been a more respectable game (i gave my synopsis on another thread--i think it was the NBA scout thread). These boys will win some games this year---we will beat those idiots from Dayton at home--i can feel it!

Honestly, I don't think the X game was a problem of effort. I'm not sure where that thought comes from (not directly at you ARBilliken, because others have said the same thing). I think the problem is the integration of young players into RM's system (as you state), lack of quality shooting, lack of physical and mental maturity and the fact that we played against a better team.

I don't think effort is a problem with this bunch (nor do I think it was much of a problem under Sodie).

[ARbilliken]

Honestly, I don't think the X game was a problem of effort. I'm not sure where that thought comes from (not directly at you ARBilliken, because others have said the same thing). I think the problem is the integration of young players into RM's system (as you state), lack of quality shooting, lack of physical and mental maturity and the fact that we played against a better team.

I don't think effort is a problem with this bunch (nor do I think it was much of a problem under Sodie).

I respect your opinion and agree with some of the points you bring up--but when you are d pushed around like our big men were last night under the defensive rim--imo, it's an effort thing. I completely agree with you on the Sodie bunch--that was more my era and involvement with the team, but just last night for me was effort...sorry.

[moytoy12]

I respect your opinion and agree with some of the points you bring up--but when you are d pushed around like our big men were last night under the defensive rim--imo, it's an effort thing. I completely agree with you on the Sodie bunch--that was more my era and involvement with the team, but just last night for me was effort...sorry.

Fair enough. Reasonable minds can disagree.

[jjray]

Certainly recruiting hasn't past him by. SLU basketball has never seen the quality of recruits that we have in this freshmen class and will have for next year.

Give RM 2 more years and if we don't see improvement then we can start having these types of discussions

I like the recruits coming in but am very concerned with the paucity of shooters. Kevin is the only legit outside threat on the team. When he struggles or is blanketed by defense, the team struggles to score. Other teams know to mug Tommie when moves inside. Next year Tommie and Kevin leave. Cotto already left, a huge loss. Reid arrives and will immediately have to step into Kevin's roll of providing an outside threat. Love Mitchell but his outside shot is ugly. Kyle Cassity is shooting .226 from the field and .217 from 3 this season. He's got a long way to go before he is a real shooting guard.

.... I think we are going to be bad again next season. The future looks fine for the front court based on what we have and what is on the way. But the team has a substantial need for more shooters. Every team is going to pack it inside on us and dare us to fire away. Also, it's very hard to come from behind late in a game when you lack outside fire power.

[GOSLU68]

Fair enough. Reasonable minds can disagree.

The troll who started this tread never has anything to say just a basic question that would take confidence out of the team and fan base.

RM has brought us the best recruits this year and for next that we have seen since the Claggett, Waldman, Highmark years. Spoon know how to recruit short basketball players and RM seems to be trying to upgrade all of our positions with better shooting, agility, height, speed and weight.

mn203 sounds like my sophomore high school home room number. mn if you don't understand basketball why don't you go to the library and boorrow a book each month by coach Majerus, Wooden, Knight, or some of th old coaches who would explain the basics.

If you play by the rules and recruit 5 players a year if you have a few guys who can already play that you inherited each year you should be able to upgrade 20 minutes at each position without running everyone off. On the Big men you might only upgrade 15 minutes per year per man as they usually can not run with the guards for 35 minutes a game.

When Cotto left the team actually jelled a little better because we did not have to save 13 or so minutes for RC. The others all looked better immediatley

and we had a great game. That was a short lived benefit but too many new players all at once is harder on a coach than bringing in a shooter when you

have four gifted players on the court. We will be better this year even if we are only one game above 500. Last year's team could not play with this year's. The rest of us can all see that Conklin will be an upgrade over LM, That WR and BT will be 2x the threat of IV and BE is better than last year, KM

is better than Polk, and KL and TL still represent the same or better potential for each game as last year.

[billiken_roy]

I respect your opinion and agree with some of the points you bring up--but when you are d pushed around like our big men were last night under the defensive rim--imo, it's an effort thing. I completely agree with you on the Sodie bunch--that was more my era and involvement with the team, but just last night for me was effort...sorry.

i didnt see the game last night, but i would bet that in regards to our bigs it was NOT an effort thing. it was a matter of pure body building and pure strength thing.

the xu bigs have been conditioning and weight lifting at a collegiate level for 3-4 years. our bigs have been doing it for 3-4 months. look at willie's legs. think about how quickly both willie and thompson get tired. compare conklin's chest and shoulders to brown's chest and shoulders.

we all love the excitement our freshmen have brought in certain instances. but that is what they were instances. instances vs the likes of north carolina a&t or samford. not xaiver, a top 10 team with seasoned bigs.

rickma warned us about the trainwreck that would show up simply because they were freshmen.

the good news is if our freshmen are smart, they know that the difference wasnt as much god given as it was hard work over time and they just had a "come to jesus" experience that will excite them more than ever about lifting an iron bar or working without a basketball in their hands come march. in the long run we are all better off.

[MusicCityBilliken]

the xu bigs have been conditioning and weight lifting at a collegiate level for 3-4 years. our bigs have been doing it for 3-4 months. look at willie's legs. think about how quickly both willie and thompson get tired. compare conklin's chest and shoulders to brown's chest and shoulders.

One of the players I wanted to see on XU was freshman Kenny Frease. The highly recruited blue chip center for XU. He was big but I didn't think he out played either Willie or Brett. (now the other XU upperclassman did). From the box score he played 15 minutes 2 for 9 for 4pts and fouled out. Unless you are Tyler Hansbrough, bigs need time to develop and I think RM will not tolerate any player not putting in the conditioning during the off-season.

[FromDaEastSide]

One of the players I wanted to see on XU was freshman Kenny Frease. The highly recruited blue chip center for XU. He was big but I didn't think he out played either Willie or Brett. (now the other XU upperclassman did). From the box score he played 15 minutes 2 for 9 for 4pts and fouled out. Unless you are Tyler Hansbrough, bigs need time to develop and I think RM will not tolerate any player not putting in the conditioning during the off-season.

I thought BT outplayed Frease when they matched up last night. It should be fun 4 years to watch them compete against each other.

[booyaa87]

After watching SLU struggle so badly the past two years you have to consider the coach. We all know that Majerus had some very good teams at Utah, but that was a while back. The game has changed and most coaches are adjusting to that change. What about Majerus? Last year SLU set a NCAA Division I record for the lowest amount of points scored in one game(20). This year SLU continues to struggle with scoring. Majerus insists that his style of play will get SLU back to the National Tournament. I honestly don't see that happening anytime soon. Maybe the game has passed Rick Majerus by and he just doesn't get it!!!

research from the University of Denver ranks Saint Louis the country's fourth-youngest team as calculated by average age.

[xfactor9600]

I thought BT outplayed Frease when they matched up last night. It should be fun 4 years to watch them compete against each other.

I thought so as well. Kenny looks awkward down low right now for X. He's still adjusting from the HS to college game. I'm guessing BT is getting more minutes than Frease right now. However, I do think Frease will progress as the season goes and Thompson/Frease and Mitchell/Holloway matchups are going to be big over the next few years.

[moytoy12]

I thought so as well. Kenny looks awkward down low right now for X. He's still adjusting from the HS to college game. I'm guessing BT is getting more minutes than Frease right now. However, I do think Frease will progress as the season goes and Thompson/Frease and Mitchell/Holloway matchups are going to be big over the next few years.

Actually, BT hasn't been getting many minutes over the last 8 games or so.

[brianstl]

This team could have used Cotto last night.

[moytoy12]

This team could have used Cotto last night.

Agreed.

[brianstl]

Agreed.

Reid and Salecich can't get here soon enough. They could really use a gunner from the JUCO ranks. This offense needs shooters to work.

[kevinfootes]

i didnt see the game last night, but i would bet that in regards to our bigs it was NOT an effort thing. it was a matter of pure body building and pure strength thing.

the xu bigs have been conditioning and weight lifting at a collegiate level for 3-4 years. our bigs have been doing it for 3-4 months. look at willie's legs. think about how quickly both willie and thompson get tired. compare conklin's chest and shoulders to brown's chest and shoulders.

we all love the excitement our freshmen have brought in certain instances. but that is what they were instances. instances vs the likes of north carolina a&t or samford. not xaiver, a top 10 team with seasoned bigs.

rickma warned us about the trainwreck that would show up simply because they were freshmen.

the good news is if our freshmen are smart, they know that the difference wasnt as much god given as it was hard work over time and they just had a "come to jesus" experience that will excite them more than ever about lifting an iron bar or working without a basketball in their hands come march. in the long run we are all better off.

agree with roy on this one. It was men vs. boys in the paint vs. XU.

[AlumniFan]

I like the recruits coming in but am very concerned with the paucity of shooters. Kevin is the only legit outside threat on the team. When he struggles or is blanketed by defense, the team struggles to score. Other teams know to mug Tommie when moves inside. Next year Tommie and Kevin leave. Cotto already left, a huge loss. Reid arrives and will immediately have to step into Kevin's roll of providing an outside threat. Love Mitchell but his outside shot is ugly. Kyle Cassity is shooting .226 from the field and .217 from 3 this season. He's got a long way to go before he is a real shooting guard.

.... I think we are going to be bad again next season. The future looks fine for the front court based on what we have and what is on the way. But the team has a substantial need for more shooters. Every team is going to pack it inside on us and dare us to fire away. Also, it's very hard to come from behind late in a game when you lack outside fire power.

Shooting last night explained the outcome. If you did a regression analysis of the game, I am convinced that pure bad luck in shooting for us (1 of 7 FT in the first half??? c'mon!) and the exceptional shooting for X would be a major explanatory variable. It is not like we were having trouble getting open shots and many times we defended reasonably well against their shooters. Our shots missed; theirs did not. Now, X is a superior team - no question about it - and even with good shooting, we still lose the game, but NOT by 25 points. I have noticed that SLU, for the last three years, seems to have a very high standard deviation in their shooting percentage. I wonder if it is truly higher than other teams. One game we are lights out; the next, we cannot find the backboard let alone the hoop. Bottom line, I think jjray is right about the lack of consistent shooters. Really too bad that Cotto left.

[Taj79]

I was not impressed with Frease at all. As a matter of fact, the fact that the announcers were hyping this kid and his mother's genes from Youngstown State made me much more pleased with Thompson's play than his. Frease was nothing more than a hulking slug who, when he received the ball in the low post, dipped his shoulder into Thompson and essentially committed an offensive foul, pushing off with that shoulder and going up with the shot. Now --- he is likely just like our freshmen, and will get better even if he only becomes a sophomore. I too am excited to think about four years of Thompson and Reed going against this guy as well as the Holloway/Mitchell matchup. I was very impressed with Brett's play and almost asked where he's been over the last few games but easily came to the understanding about matchups. Thompson didn't seem to have the court agility that Willie did so that made sense. However, for years I have said the college game is a guard's game and the A10 is not a wealth of talented big men. Thompson might have matchup problems for all four years, only time will tell. But Brett at the five and Willie at the four and on the court at the same time, talk about exciting.

All these blossooming naysayers have to be pure Majerus haters. It's almost comical. I am concerned about what appears to be regression in both Lisch and Liddell. But there is a lot of burden on their shoulders as the two lone seniors riding herd onthis freshmen excursion. Sure, Eberhardt got seven rebounds or something in 18 minutes, but four fouls as well. BE occupies time and space, and with such a youthful lineup, that is needed. Same goes for Eckerle (who I thought led the team in scoring in the GeeDub games last year) but both add little to the overall scheme needed for success.

The X game was my first viewing of the team and I have to admit I am still pretty excited over what the future might hold. I can see Reed turning into a Doug Smith-like player player. He's already light years ahead of guys like Justin Johnson, Vashun Newbourne, or Justin Tatum --- guys who we've endured over recent years. Thompson has much more promise to me and should be better than Husak, Sekue Barantine and even Chris Heinrich over time. The best center in my Billiken history is Ian and Brett may have already surpassed Ian's freshman year contributions so the sky is the limit there. I know his borhte has raised concerns on here about his playing time and rotation, but he looked fine Thursday night. A project, but lots of potential on the horizon. Mitchell looks more like he could be more a PeeWee Lenard and Charlie Newberry type -- which no matter how you slice that, is light years better than a Dwayne Polk type. Conklin appears to be well on his way to replacing what Meyer brought to the table, and maybe he can even stretch that and make to a Jeff Harris level. Cassisty, unfortunately, looks more like Drew Deiner when I want more of Scott Highmark. Outside shooting on this team has always been suspect and is a skill -- skills on this team have been questioned over the last few years. Kevin was it ---- with some second half add-on from Danny Brown last year. Kevin is suffering right now so the outside shot is not anywhere on this team to be found. Cassity as a catch-n-shoot player is not it and has a long way to go. Cotto's leaving may have hurt but we don't really know --- he wasn't exactly lighting it up either. Most have said John is a slasher, not a shooter. Which again puts it on two incoming freeshmen next year in Salesich and Reid. Maybe Smith has a mid-range game?

But again the team is a sum of its parts. As an opposing coach, what would you do to stop the Bills right now? I'd zone us, maybe even go box-and-one on Kevin. Dare someone else to beat me and beat me from the outside. Fall behind by six or eight and I think the panic would set in. Coupled with the fact then that you have no real uppperclass leadership and I think a snowball effect would rise out of control.

This is a mediocre team in my scale right now. One that should win most games at home and get plastered on the road. 50/50. But the riser in all this dust is the fact that it is young, and that we already know four more recruits (five counting John) are signed for next year. Spring signing period is right around the corner and guess what --- WE DON'T CARE. We are okay. That alone would be improvement from the past few years, yes?

Bottom line: Xavier is a top ten team with a developed front line one year removed from the Elite Eight. Simply -- we are not.

[billiken_roy]

anybody trying to draw conclusions from Thursday night is insane. we will not play another team this year as good as xaiver. if sean miller doesnt get to the sweet 16 he should be fired.

taj, no way i am comparing cassity to deiner or highmark. he is not that type of a player. both of them were more score first thinking off guards that had very little true ball skills.

i want to say he is a poor man's h, but h was so much better especially shooting and passing, however we never saw h as a freshman. but my point is that cassity is a pass first do the right thing guard that plays solid position help defense all the time. cassity is the guy you dont notice because he just does stuff right old schoolwise. even his entry passes are boring, but the truth is he was in the right position to make that pass when 90% of other players would still be circling around the floor trying to get the ball because they didnt know how to utilize the other players on the floor to get in that position.

you dont notice him as much on defense because he plays the man off the ball correctly and keeps the opponent with the ball from even thinking about passing to his man more than others. when he gets fouls it is amazing how often it is because he was the only one in position to help on defense when his teamate got beat.

little things that no one else does right.

those bItching about cassity's PT need to think about why rickma gives him so much time. the answer is he gets it. i love the guy. i wish he was making twice as many of his shots, but i think that will come eventually. his shot looks good leaving his hands. his make percentage will rise as he gets stronger as well.