Atlantic 10

[Charlotte_49]

Greetings from Niner Nation. I had a question for you guys, so I wanted to wander over...

We were on the topic of the A-10 and conference realignments, etc. We suddenly started talking about the Billikens. You guys aren't so hot on the A-10, but then again, not so hot on the MVC either, correct?

Personally, I feel the A-10 is the higher-profile conference (just barely) on the national stage. Still, I feel that the MVC would make more sense for you guys recruiting-wise, for targeting recruits from Missouri/Indiana/Illinois/etc area. What's the general consensus for Billikens fans?

I feel like Charlotte and Saint Louis have very similar grievances... Charlotte's never felt at home in the A-10. We haven't been the same since the C-USA days. But then again, what other option was out there when C-USA exploded?

Anyways, you guys have a nice 4-game win streak in tact right now. Looks like you have a pretty nice shot at extending it to at least 7. Keep it up.

From one A-10 outsider to another...

Best Regards

[davidnark]

We don't feel at home at the A-10 quite yet. The only schools we have any kind of connection with are Dayton and Xavier (because of geography and similarity) and Charlotte (because of conference history). Unfortunately, the new conference structure only allows us to play one game per regular season against each of Xavier and Charlotte.

The MVC isn't a great option because it basically lands the Billikens in permanent mid-major purgatory. Plus, we already play the two schools for which we have good geographic rivalries--Carbondale and Mo State--nearly every year. Our conference affiliation doesn't really affect our regional recruiting b/c we will always have a good shot at the kids within 100 miles of St. Louis, and Majerus tends to recruit all over the country and world.

So, for the foreseeable future, we will make the best of the A-10 and hope the conference makes changes to improve the exposure and structure.

[ARon]

A lot of people around here like the MVC since we are in the center of MVC-country and the conf-tourney is here each year. Of course if we did get in the MVC they'd probably move the tournament. The MVC has certainly had its moments with some great years by SIUC and Creighton and these happened while the A-10 was down.

But with Xavier, Temple, UMass etc back on the way up (IMHO) I think the A-10 will start to show it is still ahead as a mid-major conference.

The commissioner of the A-10 has said that they are not looking to expand right now. But there are plenty around here who think that is where SLU belongs.

The people I've read who seem to be "in-the-know" say that SLU is waiting for the Big East to eventually implode. The idea being that Xavier, SLU, St. Joe's, and some of the other A-10 schools could link up with the Big East's basketball only schools like DePaul, Marquette, and maybe bring in Notre Dame as well.

Kind of a Catholic/Jesuit super-conference.

[thetorch]

It was an unfortunate move for both our teams. That said if we both had better programs we wouldn't be in this predicament.

The consensus on the board is that the A-10 has many advantages over the MVC. We sometimes recruit at the same level as MVC teams, sometimes above, sometimes below, I think being in a different conference helps in that regard.

I think the A-10 is the best alternative for SLU when we were given a poor set of choices. Regionally we are stuck in the middle, not in a "minor league" conference like the MVC but not with Mizzou and Illinois in the Big 12 and Big 10. Always for me joining the MVC would be like admitting defeat. We have been above their station for a couple decades now. If we can stay at a level above them why not continue that.

That said if the MVC tournament was played down the street from the university I don't think many people in the media would be clamoring for SLU to move there.

[Charlotte_49]

Very insightful...thanks guys.

I thought I'd share this. A writer for the NY Daily News wrote an article a few days ago about the A-10 and mentioned Charlotte and Saint Louis. The Charlotte board thinks the writer, Dick Weiss, is an idiot...he didn't use the proper spelling for Saint Louis, and seems quite the nonsensical idiot at times in our opinion. Anyways, he had this to say...

St. Louis fans would rather have their team in the cost-effective, more regionally significant Missouri Valley. Charlotte may need a conference that is a better geographic fit if it goes through with a plan to sink significant finances into a Division 1-AA football startup.

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/college/...l_hoops_lo.html

[courtside]

Very insightful...thanks guys.

I thought I'd share this. A writer for the NY Daily News wrote an article a few days ago about the A-10 and mentioned Charlotte and Saint Louis. The Charlotte board thinks the writer, Dick Weiss, is an idiot...he didn't use the proper spelling for Saint Louis, and seems quite the nonsensical idiot at times in our opinion. Anyways, he had this to say...

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/college/...l_hoops_lo.html

SLU did not have the on court success, on court history, and long term relationships to be invited to join the Big East, the desired conference for SLU. Many people overlook the last part of those three things. SLU didn't want to join the A-10 nor the MVC. As a school, SLU wants more of a National presence, and East Coast presence than what the MVC provides. Some agree with this, some don't. Many people not affiliated with SLU and very novice, casual Joe's, don't understand why SLU wouldn't be in the MVC. The MVC is based in St. Louis and St. Louis as a town has a long strong history of supporting special events, especially in athletics, pro or college. The MVC tourney is such a "special event" and as a conference markets itself well in SLU's region. Without taking a closer look, the average Joe at home thinks, why not the MVC, when SLU considered many factors when it joined the A-10. Also, the President of the St. Louis Sports Commission's wife is affiliated with the MVC conference. They have the local St. Louis Media in their back pocket because they are good at their jobs. Some SLU fans have Big East envy, though they'd love to join the conference, or join a new conference some day which included some of their teams.

[GOSLU68]

SLU did not have the on court success, on court history, and long term relationships to be invited to join the Big East, the desired conference for SLU. Many people overlook the last part of those three things. SLU didn't want to join the A-10 nor the MVC. As a school, SLU wants more of a National presence, and East Coast presence than what the MVC provides. Some agree with this, some don't. Many people not affiliated with SLU and very novice, casual Joe's, don't understand why SLU wouldn't be in the MVC. The MVC is based in St. Louis and St. Louis as a town has a long strong history of supporting special events, especially in athletics, pro or college. The MVC tourney is such a "special event" and as a conference markets itself well in SLU's region. Without taking a closer look, the average Joe at home thinks, why not the MVC, when SLU considered many factors when it joined the A-10. Also, the President of the St. Louis Sports Commission's wife is affiliated with the MVC conference. They have the local St. Louis Media in their back pocket because they are good at their jobs. Some SLU fans have Big East envy, though they'd love to join the conference, or join a new conference some day which included some of their teams.

When we were in the MVC the consensus opinion and this is ancient history that Louisville and possibly Memphis were not treating student athletes

in the same fashion as our sdhool.

The old MVC was more a fit for us that the current league. Many of the schools have only come into existence in the last 60 years.

RM is trying to develop a schedule which will give us more Catholic and traditional liberal arts and science schools that have basketball as serious

goal. Some of these schools may play football. We may be playing both De Paul and Creighton this week. We are supposedly signed for a tournament in Chicago next year that may include De Paul and Notre Dame.

The perfect league for us, frankly, would be a church league that is our heritage and city schools rather than public schools in the middle of sates

or far from major metro areas. Charlotte, Xavier, Dauton have fit some of those criteria-there are others that cuuld. We have had several leagues

disolve around us but the A-10 is the best fit for us now.

[RB2.0]

YES!!! Another MVC vs A-10 debate!!

We made it almost a week this time

[Box and Won]

The best conference we've had was the Great Midwest. If we could have had XU in that conference, it would have been unbelievable. Each subsequent conference - CUSA, A-10 - has gotten progressively suckier.

[thetorch]

I think the first iteration of the metro with us, Cincy, Memphis, Louisville, Tulane, Florida St, Georgia Tech, and Marquette was the strongest conference we have been in. The Valley in the late 40s and 50s was a strong conference. The Great Midwest was nice but it only had 7 teams. The first couple years we expanded into CUSA was better. You lost Dayton but added Several programs just as good or better in Houston, DePaul, Charlotte, Tulane, UAB and South Florida.

[MusicCityBilliken]

I think the first iteration of the metro with us, Cincy, Memphis, Louisville, Tulane, Florida St, Georgia Tech, and Marquette was the strongest conference we have been in. The Valley in the late 40s and 50s was a strong conference. The Great Midwest was nice but it only had 7 teams. The first couple years we expanded into CUSA was better. You lost Dayton but added Several programs just as good or better in Houston, DePaul, Charlotte, Tulane, UAB and South Florida.

I did not think Marquette was in the old Metro. Didn't it have Virginia Tech and South Carolina?

Anyway it was a good conference, to bad we had one of the worse coaches during that period.

My vote for the best conference was the Great Midwest, (all member schools had pedigree basketball traditions and they all geographically fit-all urban (mix private and public) Midwest schools). All it needed was Louisville (to make it a 8 team conference) and it would have been annually a top 4 conference every year.

[GoBills]

I think the first iteration of the metro with us, Cincy, Memphis, Louisville, Tulane, Florida St, Georgia Tech, and Marquette was the strongest conference we have been in. The Valley in the late 40s and 50s was a strong conference. The Great Midwest was nice but it only had 7 teams. The first couple years we expanded into CUSA was better. You lost Dayton but added Several programs just as good or better in Houston, DePaul, Charlotte, Tulane, UAB and South Florida.

The Great Midwest basically expanded and took on more of a football presence when it changed the name to Conference USA. Louisville was the most profile program to come over into the new C-USA, but there were a few weak basketball programs that came on board too like South Florida, Southern Miss and a little later East Carolina.

[kevinfootes]

RM is trying to develop a schedule which will give us more Catholic and traditional liberal arts and science schools that have basketball as serious

goal.

It will be interesting to see if that really happens. I'm willing to cut RM some slack on the schedule this year, but if SLU becomes a 200 rpi team, they'll have an even harder time getting good teams to come to Chaifetz.

[thetorch]

You are right. Marquette never was in there. Va Tech joined in like 79. South Carolina joined after SLU left for the MCC.

[AlumniFan]

SLU did not have the on court success, on court history, and long term relationships to be invited to join the Big East, the desired conference for SLU. Many people overlook the last part of those three things. SLU didn't want to join the A-10 nor the MVC. As a school, SLU wants more of a National presence, and East Coast presence than what the MVC provides. Some agree with this, some don't. Many people not affiliated with SLU and very novice, casual Joe's, don't understand why SLU wouldn't be in the MVC. The MVC is based in St. Louis and St. Louis as a town has a long strong history of supporting special events, especially in athletics, pro or college. The MVC tourney is such a "special event" and as a conference markets itself well in SLU's region. Without taking a closer look, the average Joe at home thinks, why not the MVC, when SLU considered many factors when it joined the A-10. Also, the President of the St. Louis Sports Commission's wife is affiliated with the MVC conference. They have the local St. Louis Media in their back pocket because they are good at their jobs. Some SLU fans have Big East envy, though they'd love to join the conference, or join a new conference some day which included some of their teams.

This is one of the best and most succinct summations of this stupid debate that I have ever heard - true SLU fans want more exposure whereas Joe Sixpack who goes to one or two games a year (when he gets free tickets from someone) thinks the MVC would be just peachy.

I like the current A10 because at least most of the schools are more reflective of Saint Louis U. in terms of academic focus and tradition. The MVC just is not the same at all. Besides, the decision to join the A10 had a lot to do with recruiting - students, not athletes.

[davidnark]

Some SLU fans have Big East envy, though they'd love to join the conference, or join a new conference some day which included some of their teams.

Some SLU fans? How about all of us? At a minimum, we would love to take our old Big East pals Marquette and DePaul; borrow the Notre Dame hottie; hang tight with our new friends Dayton, Xavier, and St. Joe; and maybe even invite Creighton, the cute girl who lives on the far side of town, to see what kind of party we could create. We are frankly fed up with having to settle for the Southern Miss and St. Bonnie's of the college basketball world.

[davidnark]

Many people not affiliated with SLU and very novice, casual Joe's, don't understand why SLU wouldn't be in the MVC.

This is very true. Unfortunately, it isn't just the casual Joe sports fan, but equally as often the members of the ignorant local media.

[thetorch]

This is very true. Unfortunately, it isn't just the casual Joe sports fan, but equally as often the members of the ignorant local media.

Many of the old time boosters want us in the MVC as well. I have spent many an hour arguing the merits of the A-10 vs. MVC with my father and his old money SLU booster friends. They share the same affliction that the local disinterested fan and the ignorant local media have. SLU has a place, it is not and never will be among the nation's elite so why bother? Join the MVC. I believe many of the informed SLU fans have a greater vision for the program. We may never get there but I don't want to ever stop trying.

[brianstl]

Many of the old time boosters want us in the MVC as well. I have spent many an hour arguing the merits of the A-10 vs. MVC with my father and his old money SLU booster friends. They share the same affliction that the local disinterested fan and the ignorant local media have. SLU has a place, it is not and never will be among the nation's elite so why bother? Join the MVC. I believe many of the informed SLU fans have a greater vision for the program. We may never get there but I don't want to ever stop trying.

Torch I know people like the ones you are talking about. The thing is they don't understand that the MVC is not the same MVC that SLU played in years ago. It is what happens when you are always looking back instead of looking forward. Most don't get that the MVC would be are final destination. The ones that do think it will be a great trip back to the days of Harry Rogers and Joe Wiley. I got news for them those years were not all that great. Zero post season appearances are not exactly greatness.

[cheeseman]

Torch I know people like the ones you are talking about. The thing is they don't understand that the MVC is not the same MVC that SLU played in years ago. It is what happens when you are always looking back instead of looking forward. Most don't get that the MVC would be are final destination. The ones that do think it will be a great trip back to the days of Harry Rogers and Joe Wiley. I got news for them those years were not all that great. Zero post season appearances are not exactly greatness.

Well that was when the NCAA only took 32 or was it 48? teams to the dance. You had to settle for the NIT in many cases and we did not even get that. The people who talk about the MVC and our glory years was when the MVC had the likes of OK State in it. Those days were long long gone. We are fine were we are for now. The A10 will change at some point and the Big East will do the same and as long as we are in the A10 we will automatically be part of what happens. In the MVC - we are left out in the cold.

[kevinfootes]

Some SLU fans? How about all of us? At a minimum, we would love to take our old Big East pals Marquette and DePaul; borrow the Notre Dame hottie; hang tight with our new friends Dayton, Xavier, and St. Joe; and maybe even invite Creighton, the cute girl who lives on the far side of town, to see what kind of party we could create. We are frankly fed up with having to settle for the Southern Miss and St. Bonnie's of the college basketball world.

As I've posted on here many times, nobody owes SLU anything. SLU needs to win games. Then we can kick down the door as opposed to begging on the curb while blaming others for our misfortune. .500 teams with a 200 rpi don't get many breaks.

Marquette won't play many true road games outside of Madison in their nonconference schedule. Does anyone know for sure if we're even trying to get home and homes with these teams?

[GoBills]

To suggest SLU is a rpi program of a round 200 based on the first month of this season is short-sighted and just silly. A lot of factors go into conference affiliations. SLU is currently in the best non-BCS conference and the school recently has really shown a true commitment to basketball - building a first-class on campus facility and hiring a highly regarded coach. They have positioned themselves about as well as possible for any type of realignment that might happen in the future.

[kevinfootes]

To suggest SLU is a rpi program of a round 200 based on the first month of this season is short-sighted and just silly. A lot of factors go into conference affiliations. SLU is currently in the best non-BCS conference and the school recently has really shown a true commitment to basketball - building a first-class on campus facility and hiring a highly regarded coach. They have positioned themselves about as well as possible for any type of realignment that might happen in the future.

What do you predict for SLU's final rpi this year? I doubt it will be over 200, but I'll be pleasantly suprised if it's better than last year's 138. I'll cut RM some slack for the schedule this year, but he's going to have to step it up in the future.

The big "realignment" might be a reality some day, but SLU needs to start to be a 20+ win team every year to get an invite.

Do you think SLU would be a consideration for a new, big conference without getting results on the court? Just win, baby. Assuming there is something more important than winning games is just short-sighted and silly.

[RB2.0]

To suggest SLU is a rpi program of a round 200 based on the first month of this season is short-sighted and just silly. A lot of factors go into conference affiliations. SLU is currently in the best non-BCS conference and the school recently has really shown a true commitment to basketball - building a first-class on campus facility and hiring a highly regarded coach. They have positioned themselves about as well as possible for any type of realignment that might happen in the future.

I doubt our stay in the A-10 will be long term. Conferences are constantly evolving (with the exceptions of the Big 10) and I expect another shake up in the not so distant future. The A-10 is not a good fit, imo, but people are right....it is probably the best non-BCS conference for basketball.

Not that it will even happen but the dream conference (realistically speaking) would have the following teams:

- marquette

- depaul

- xavier

- creighton

- dayton

- siu-c

- butler

obviously having louisville, notre dame, and memphis would be great, however its not a reality because of football, reputation, etc.

[kevinfootes]

I doubt our stay in the A-10 will be long term. Conferences are constantly evolving (with the exceptions of the Big 10) and I expect another shake up in the not so distant future. The A-10 is not a good fit, imo, but people are right....it is probably the best non-BCS conference for basketball.

Not that it will even happen but the dream conference (realistically speaking) would have the following teams:

- marquette

- depaul

- xavier

- creighton

- dayton

- siu-c

- butler

obviously having louisville, notre dame, and memphis would be great, however its not a reality because of football, reputation, etc.

The big 10 added Penn State not too long ago. The most stable big-time conference is really the Pac 10.