STLHI

[slufanskip]

Why don't we all honor the old VEE's request to use his new handle of STLHI. He isn't the same kid he was back then. As many times as he's asked, it seems to be a slap to keep calling him Vee or V.

He watches as much or more HS basketball than almost all of us, lets give him a chance.

[Majerus Magic]

Why don't we all honor the old VEE's request to use his new handle of STLHI. He isn't the same kid he was back then. As many times as he's asked, it seems to be a slap to keep calling him Vee or V.

He watches as much or more HS basketball than almost all of us, lets give him a chance.

Not sure it needs a thread but....agreed.

[Cowboy]

copied from other thread

i would buy into the vtime lovefest if he would stop saying players got lots of D1 offers out of juco or he has 10 D1 offers and instead said he has offers from the acc or the big 10 or mvc or ovc or atlantic sun or swac

they are all D1 but there is a HUGE gap in between

[Clock_Tower]

copied from other thread

i would buy into the vtime lovefest if he would stop saying players got lots of D1 offers out of juco or he has 10 D1 offers and instead said he has offers from the acc or the big 10 or mvc or ovc or atlantic sun or swac

they are all D1 but there is a HUGE gap in between

Good point; however, next he says that, call him on it. Ask him who the offers were.

I, for one, believe that Stl has greatly changed - and for the better IMO. Personally, I find his posts informative and welcome them. We all know he favors local guys, so instead of dismissing him altogether, why not simply factor that into the weight you decide his posts.

As far as "crying wolf", I agree with Skip, how much longer must he be reminded of that. I'm all for giving him a much needed break. Face it, we Billiken fans are still too few and far between.

[kevinfootes]

Why don't we all honor the old VEE's request to use his new handle of STLHI. He isn't the same kid he was back then. As many times as he's asked, it seems to be a slap to keep calling him Vee or V.

He watches as much or more HS basketball than almost all of us, lets give him a chance.

It's been long enough that the haters should let it go.

[Taj79]

I always call him Vee ---- so I hearby resolve NOT to do that anymore. I do think it is important, however, that one recognizes the past to realize why we are at where we are today. It's not hate, its not racism, and its not a condescending attitude. Its based on past and previous FACT.

I don't think STLHI can put aside his bias towards the local scene ---- and because of that, his evaluations have to be viewed or taken with a slight grain of salt. Are they informative and do I appreciate them? Yes, for what they are worth with the caveat expressed by the Cowboy and Tower. History has just NOT shown St. Louis to be a hotbed of college basektball prospects. STLHI has said to me, on a PM, that he is a proponent for pushing and advancing local kids by assisting them in getting pub which leads to scholarships. A very noble and upstanding undertaking. Unfortuantely, there is no ten-second sound bite review that gives instant validation or declares victory for his efforts. Time will tell.

Some guys get legit and cred doing this. Clark Francis. Patrick Jirsa. Mel Kiper Jr. Others become street agents and hangers-on --- the ESL guy that was involved with the TL-to-UNLV situation five years ago. The guy "handling" OJ Mayo at USC and before. Myron Piggie. THE KU booster in all that. Again, I, for one, appreciate the input but when it does come, I balance it off other guys like PDiddy, 3Star, Nate and others.

The debate will rage on.

[slufanskip]

I always call him Vee ---- so I hearby resolve NOT to do that anymore. I do think it is important, however, that one recognizes the past to realize why we are at where we are today. It's not hate, its not racism, and its not a condescending attitude. Its based on past and previous FACT.

I don't think STLHI can put aside his bias towards the local scene ---- and because of that, his evaluations have to be viewed or taken with a slight grain of salt. Are they informative and do I appreciate them? Yes, for what they are worth with the caveat expressed by the Cowboy and Tower. History has just NOT shown St. Louis to be a hotbed of college basektball prospects. STLHI has said to me, on a PM, that he is a proponent for pushing and advancing local kids by assisting them in getting pub which leads to scholarships. A very noble and upstanding undertaking. Unfortuantely, there is no ten-second sound bite review that gives instant validation or declares victory for his efforts. Time will tell.

Some guys get legit and cred doing this. Clark Francis. Patrick Jirsa. Mel Kiper Jr. Others become street agents and hangers-on --- the ESL guy that was involved with the TL-to-UNLV situation five years ago. The guy "handling" OJ Mayo at USC and before. Myron Piggie. THE KU booster in all that. Again, I, for one, appreciate the input but when it does come, I balance it off other guys like PDiddy, 3Star, Nate and others.

The debate will rage on.

I agree with your post to some extent. I had and have the same thoughts and concerns about STLHI's recommendation. I asked him directly if he thought it was more important SLU be a consistent top 25 team or if it was more important SLU use local players. He thinks SLU can be top 25 by using mostly local players, I'm not sure nor do I have the knowledge to know if I agree or not (though I tend to lean to not) I think what he wants is SLU to a least go after the top tier of Stl players. I know I do agree with that.

In the past ... he did tout any and everybody as a big time player, I have seen a change and am interested in his evaluations. What I would say is he should stick to discussing the players SLU should be recruiting with the intent to offer. If he does that, we will see if he's a good evaluator or not. Time will tell.

With all that said, I didn't mean to make this a thread about his skills as a player evaluator or his contributions to the board. Imo Vee was a kid, STLHI has become all grown up. He asked us to leave Vee behind and I don't see a reason why we shouldn't respect that. To continue to call him Vee or V is a slap in the face and from some posters clearly meant to be that. I'm glad ###### I said or did as a 19-20 year old hasn't continued to followed me so many years later.

[STL Hoops Insider]

I agree with your post to some extent. I had and have the same thoughts and concerns about STLHI's recommendation. I asked him directly if he thought it was more important SLU be a consistent top 25 team or if it was more important SLU use local players. He thinks SLU can be top 25 by using mostly local players, I'm not sure nor do I have the knowledge to know if I agree or not (though I tend to lean to not) I think what he wants is SLU to a least go after the top tier of Stl players. I know I do agree with that.

In the past ... he did tout any and everybody as a big time player, I have seen a change and am interested in his evaluations. What I would say is he should stick to discussing the players SLU should be recruiting with the intent to offer. If he does that, we will see if he's a good evaluator or not. Time will tell.

With all that said, I didn't mean to make this a thread about his skills as a player evaluator or his contributions to the board. Imo Vee was a kid, STLHI has become all grown up. He asked us to leave Vee behind and I don't see a reason why we shouldn't respect that. To continue to call him Vee or V is a slap in the face and from some posters clearly meant to be that. I'm glad ###### I said or did as a 19-20 year old hasn't continued to followed me so many years later.

I'm not saying a team full of local players will make you a top 25 team, I'm saying that the local players are easier to get that out of state and national guys and that the talent in the area is strong enough to build a consistent winner that can turn into a tournament team. Heck SLU finished 3rd in the A10 the 1st year in the conference with a lineup full of local players. What I'm essentially saying is that although Saint Louis is not considered a hotbed, its a large enough and talented enough area to produce players worth having for SLU every year, and if SLU can get those top guys every year, they will win a lot of games. And every now and then, there is an elite class. 2008 had a ton of D1 guys, Booker, Roundtree, McCoy, Hobbs, Swopshire, Waller, James, Brandenburg, Suggs, Soderberg, Hanlen, Campbell, Tony Meier, McGee and ofcourse John and Cotto. And that's not including guys that Would've gone D1 if they qualified like Jesse Perry, Abel Tillman, and some guys who will likely be D1 after JUCO like Ken Brown, Kenny Harris, and David Ruckman. Sean Rakers was also a D1 talent, but signed early with McKendree. 09 is not nearly as stacked, but there was a big-time national product and a guy that would be a national product if not for a hazy academic situation and classes of 2010 and 2011 are very good as well, and will feed a lot of D1 programs.

[Quality Is Job 1]

What I'm essentially saying is that although Saint Louis is not considered a hotbed, its a large enough and talented enough area to produce players worth having for SLU every year, and if SLU can get those top guys every year, they will win a lot of games.

People like Bob Ramsey and Earl Austin Jr. have been saying similar things for years. I'm in agreement. The problem, though, is when the top-tier players (Jahidi White, Chris Carrawell, Loren Woods, David Lee, Maurice Baker, Scott Suggs, etc.) refuse to consider SLU very heavily. If guys like that would come to SLU, then the program could ascend to being a perennial NCAA Tournament team. If the practice facility was a significant factor, then we should see some changes next time St. Louis produces a top-notch prospect. It doesn't bode well that Suggs bolted, but I understand the relationship-with-Romar thing. There can be no excuses next time. Tyler Griffey is another foreboding example.

[slufanskip]

I'm not saying a team full of local players will make you a top 25 team, I'm saying that the local players are easier to get that out of state and national guys and that the talent in the area is strong enough to build a consistent winner that can turn into a tournament team. Heck SLU finished 3rd in the A10 the 1st year in the conference with a lineup full of local players. What I'm essentially saying is that although Saint Louis is not considered a hotbed, its a large enough and talented enough area to produce players worth having for SLU every year, and if SLU can get those top guys every year, they will win a lot of games. And every now and then, there is an elite class. 2008 had a ton of D1 guys, Booker, Roundtree, McCoy, Hobbs, Swopshire, Waller, James, Brandenburg, Suggs, Soderberg, Hanlen, Campbell, Tony Meier, McGee and ofcourse John and Cotto. And that's not including guys that Would've gone D1 if they qualified like Jesse Perry, Abel Tillman, and some guys who will likely be D1 after JUCO like Ken Brown, Kenny Harris, and David Ruckman. Sean Rakers was also a D1 talent, but signed early with McKendree. 09 is not nearly as stacked, but there was a big-time national product and a guy that would be a national product if not for a hazy academic situation and classes of 2010 and 2011 are very good as well, and will feed a lot of D1 programs.

I agree with that.

[Clock_Tower]

People like Bob Ramsey and Earl Austin Jr. have been saying similar things for years. I'm in agreement. The problem, though, is when the top-tier players (Jahidi White, Chris Carrawell, Loren Woods, David Lee, Maurice Baker, Scott Suggs, etc.) refuse to consider SLU very heavily. If guys like that would come to SLU, then the program could ascend to being a perennial NCAA Tournament team. If the practice facility was a significant factor, then we should see some changes next time St. Louis produces a top-notch prospect. It doesn't bode well that Suggs bolted, but I understand the relationship-with-Romar thing. There can be no excuses next time. Tyler Griffey is another foreboding example.

Practice facilities is only one example. SLU needs to be "big-time". That includes not only a better schedule but also winning that better schedule. SLU needs to be on the airwaves (TV and radion) and in print (Post Dispatch, recruiting papers and national publications). SLU also needs to make the Tourney more than once every 10 years.

Chaveitz has fixed the practice, weight training, coaches offices facility issue and hopefully eliminate student apathy. Upgraded budgets, TV contracts and radio contracts (which include not only games but coaching shows, Tip Off Club mtgs, post game shows) and improved Athletic Department staffing are needed. Winning will fix many of the issues but not all.

[Guest BillikenReport]

Chaveitz has fixed the practice, weight training, coaches offices facility issue and hopefully eliminate student apathy. Upgraded budgets, TV contracts and radio contracts (which include not only games but coaching shows, Tip Off Club mtgs, post game shows) and improved Athletic Department staffing are needed. Winning will fix many of the issues but not all.

The biggest issue going forward is the conference.

Some of the last few recruiting targets SLU has missed out on have picked Kentucky, Illinois, Indiana (twice during Majerus era), North Carolina State, Washington and Virginia.

The Billikens were able to get Brett Thompson and Kyle Cassity despite offers from Big Ten schools, but have lost many more of those battles than they've won. They are also in on a couple kids with offers from BCS schools right now, so we'll see what happens.

If SLU can get to the level Xavier has established, the Billikens will win more of those battles. Xavier is on another level with recruiting among A-10 schools.

[3star_recruit]

If SLU can get to the level Xavier has established, the Billikens will win more of those battles. Xavier is on another level with recruiting among A-10 schools.

If Xavier was able to upgrade its recruiting to high major status while in the A-10 and Majerus became Majerus by being the big dog in a mid-major conference, why is the conference the biggest issue going forward?

[Guest BillikenReport]

If Xavier was able to upgrade its recruiting to high major status while in the A-10 and Majerus became Majerus by being the big dog in a mid-major conference, why is the conference the biggest issue going forward?

How many years of 20-win seasons and NCAA tournament appearances did it take for Xavier to get to its current level?

[Cowboy]

How many years of 20-win seasons and NCAA tournament appearances did it take for Xavier to get to its current level?

and having tourney success, not just getting there

[3star_recruit]

How many years of 20-win seasons and NCAA tournament appearances did it take for Xavier to get to its current level?

How many years of 20-wins seasons and NCAA tournament appearances did it take for Majerus at Utah?

[GOSLU68]

Why don't we all honor the old VEE's request to use his new handle of STLHI. He isn't the same kid he was back then. As many times as he's asked, it seems to be a slap to keep calling him Vee or V.

He watches as much or more HS basketball than almost all of us, lets give him a chance.

I never had a problem with him as I never considered him as anything but a booster of himself and the local kids; nothing wrong with that. I would like him to read this and consider helping kids get any scholarship D1, D2, or a connection to get into school some kids just don't know they can make it. Two.

we should all remember SLU is media not a destination point for STLHI so he may go to our games but

he is not necessarily upset if a kid chooses to go to Florida or California or Duke instead of SLU. He would

like to be a mover and shaker but we can't afford the cost of rookie booster gone wild, either. So if he is

considered an independent agent who posts on this board and a lot of other boards we should be grateful

when he brings us news and leave it at that. We don't need to rate him or berate him.

[STL Hoops Insider]

I never had a problem with him as I never considered him as anything but a booster of himself and the local kids; nothing wrong with that. I would like him to read this and consider helping kids get any scholarship D1, D2, or a connection to get into school some kids just don't know they can make it. Two.

we should all remember SLU is media not a destination point for STLHI so he may go to our games but

he is not necessarily upset if a kid chooses to go to Florida or California or Duke instead of SLU. He would

like to be a mover and shaker but we can't afford the cost of rookie booster gone wild, either. So if he is

considered an independent agent who posts on this board and a lot of other boards we should be grateful

when he brings us news and leave it at that. We don't need to rate him or berate him.

I do hate when one of the local guys go to one of those bigger schools and I know he's not gonna play, but could've helped be a program changer at SLU. I do hate that. IF a kid is a stud and has a ton of big boys calling I can't blame him for going elsewhere, I'm not happy about it, but I cant blame him because there could be a life changing amount of money waiting on him. This season in college basketball you will have guys from this area competing in the Pac 10 (2), Big East, SEC (2) Big 12, and ACC, in addition to smaller conferences, so this area can definitely produce some talent.

[Quality Is Job 1]

I do hate when one of the local guys go to one of those bigger schools and I know he's not gonna play, but could've helped be a program changer at SLU. I do hate that. IF a kid is a stud and has a ton of big boys calling I can't blame him for going elsewhere, I'm not happy about it, but I cant blame him because there could be a life changing amount of money waiting on him. This season in college basketball you will have guys from this area competing in the Pac 10 (2), Big East, SEC (2) Big 12, and ACC, in addition to smaller conferences, so this area can definitely produce some talent.

I can, because there are no more secrets. The NBA will find talent wherever it "hides." Being a superstar for SLU won't hinder a player from being a lottery pick, if he has the talent. Ask Larry Hughes. Or that All-America caliber player can go to the top team in the country and be just an ordinary looking player, perhaps not even starting for a year or two. I just don't buy the reasoning that playing at SLU would hurt a players potential professional career.

[moytoy12]

I can, because there are no more secrets. The NBA will find talent wherever it "hides." Being a superstar for SLU won't hinder a player from being a lottery pick, if he has the talent. Ask Larry Hughes. Or that All-America caliber player can go to the top team in the country and be just an ordinary looking player, perhaps not even starting for a year or two. I just don't buy the reasoning that playing at SLU would hurt a players potential professional career.

It might not hurt it, but it probably doesn't help it as much as being at other schools.

[brianstl]

I do hate when one of the local guys go to one of those bigger schools and I know he's not gonna play, but could've helped be a program changer at SLU. I do hate that. IF a kid is a stud and has a ton of big boys calling I can't blame him for going elsewhere, I'm not happy about it, but I cant blame him because there could be a life changing amount of money waiting on him. This season in college basketball you will have guys from this area competing in the Pac 10 (2), Big East, SEC (2) Big 12, and ACC, in addition to smaller conferences, so this area can definitely produce some talent.

Isn't one of the kids in the Pac-10 a walk-on?

[Taj79]

Okay, wait a minute, slow down ....

STLHI said kids "from this area" competing in "the Pac 10 (2), Big East, SEC (2), Big Twelve and ACC." Let's name names here ...

Pac 10? Do you mean Suggs and Abdul-Hamid on UCLA? The jury is out on Suggs (and while I'm certain he'll do more than compete, let's wait and see. Bigger names have crashed and burned and not met expectations) and Abdul-Hamid played an average of 5 minutes last year while getting in 13 games. Of course, that is an increase over his freshman year when he got in for 2 minutes in 9 games. So he's "an up-and-comer." I don't believe that is competing. These were based on the 07-08 rosters so if I'm missing someone, I apologize.

Big East? Are you talking Blackledge on Marquette or Hansbrough who is eligible this year at Notre Dame? Blackledge averaged 7 minutes in 27 games and Hanborough sat out his year of transfer. I don't call that competing and I don't consider Carbondale or Poplar Bluff to be "from the St. Louis area."

SEC (2)? Guessing one here is Tyus with the other Harrelson to be. My jury is still out on Harrelson so let's wait and see on that one. Tyus? His stats are good enough to put him as the seventh best contributor on an upper echelon team so I'll agree on that one.

Big 12? Would that be Matt Lawrence at Mizzou? I think what really stands in testament to the lack of available talent, not only in St. Louis, but to the entire state of Missouri, is that of Mizzou's 13-man roster for 07-08, ONLY Matt Lawrence was actually from in-state. There is no greater statement, in my mind, that speaks to the dearth of talent in the state, let alone one of its two major metropolitan areas, then that fact. Yikes!

And ACC? Hansbrough doesn't count .... I don't personnally believe that a town, 152 miles away from St. Louis is "from our area." I would say that "from the area" involves a geographic location within, say, a beltway loop or something like that, recognizing that its probably a little further. But not 150 miles. At 150 miles, living here in Baltimore and applying that logic, New York city is nearly in the "Baltimore area' by those definitions. DC most certainly is. So too are Philly and Richmond. Tyler was a one-time, freak of nature. I think it is safe to say that the trail beaten down to Poplar Bluff for his services will be a trail never used again. Or not for a long time. Brandenburg is in the same class as Suggs. I am not prepared to announce his career a success based on a signing. Ditto Harrelson.

I still remember when Sean Kowal signed out of DeSmet with Colorado. And some went nuts over us losing a potential 7-footer to the Big Twelve. What ever happened with him? I know I asked that before and recall he has transfered but again, so what. Would signing Kowal have meant anything? We don't know. When Jeff Carey went to Kansas with Robertson (I think) we bemoaned that. Did Carey contribute at Kansas? I don't think so but again, who knows what he does if he comes here.

I believe we can win with St. Louis kids. We have shown that in Bonner/Douglas/Gray/Hudson/Roder. Again for Claggett and Highmark. Ditto for Hughes, Baniak and Tatum. Maybe still with Liddell and Lisch. The not-so-great list is arguably a lot longer. Who local came and failed? Or maybe didn't have the greatest of success is a better question? Darryl Anderson, Matt Baniak (post Hughes), Eric Bickel, Chris Braun, Tyrone Caswell, Anthony Jones, Ramon Trice, Kevin grawer, Johnny Parker Sr., Melvin Robinson, Dale renken, Dick Missavage, Dwayne Polk, Nick Kern, Paul Jensen, John Duff, Ted Mimlitz, Bob Mueller -- the list can go on. I think was amplifies that is then the fact that various coaches, especially Spoon and BS, would then pretty much sign anybody and talk about them being "the poor man's Larry Hughes" or some other unrealisitic expectation and those guys, while being from out of town, would amplify the old "if your gonna fail do it with local guys at least" segment.

Bottom line: you can win with local talent, I just don't think it can be done consistently because the seeding grounds are not good enough for whatever reason. Douglas was 1986. Clagget 1992. Hughes 1998. This past class 2008. Four classes over 23 or so years. That's one class every four to five years. And that's providing you get it each time. I think if you get one or two from St. Louis almost every year, you are still going to have to supplant with other equal or better talent. All the time. If that works and you win, then you don't get to the point BS did where the next unusual class in the St. Louis area is your make-or-break night at the casino.

[Guest BillikenReport]

Abdul-Hamid is now on scholarship at UCLA.

[Cowboy]

Taj, I was listening to Ramsay some months ago and he came up with a definition of a local player as being someone that gets their tv from a STL station.

I think that makes sense, or as much sense as any other definition of what is considered local.

I think a caller from Pickneyville got on and said they don't get STL stations - was kind of a hodgepodge, Cape, Carbondale, Paducah.

[STL Hoops Insider]

Okay, wait a minute, slow down ....

STLHI said kids "from this area" competing in "the Pac 10 (2), Big East, SEC (2), Big Twelve and ACC." Let's name names here ...

Pac 10? Do you mean Suggs and Abdul-Hamid on UCLA? The jury is out on Suggs (and while I'm certain he'll do more than compete, let's wait and see. Bigger names have crashed and burned and not met expectations) and Abdul-Hamid played an average of 5 minutes last year while getting in 13 games. Of course, that is an increase over his freshman year when he got in for 2 minutes in 9 games. So he's "an up-and-comer." I don't believe that is competing. These were based on the 07-08 rosters so if I'm missing someone, I apologize.

Big East? Are you talking Blackledge on Marquette or Hansbrough who is eligible this year at Notre Dame? Blackledge averaged 7 minutes in 27 games and Hanborough sat out his year of transfer. I don't call that competing and I don't consider Carbondale or Poplar Bluff to be "from the St. Louis area."

SEC (2)? Guessing one here is Tyus with the other Harrelson to be. My jury is still out on Harrelson so let's wait and see on that one. Tyus? His stats are good enough to put him as the seventh best contributor on an upper echelon team so I'll agree on that one.

Big 12? Would that be Matt Lawrence at Mizzou? I think what really stands in testament to the lack of available talent, not only in St. Louis, but to the entire state of Missouri, is that of Mizzou's 13-man roster for 07-08, ONLY Matt Lawrence was actually from in-state. There is no greater statement, in my mind, that speaks to the dearth of talent in the state, let alone one of its two major metropolitan areas, then that fact. Yikes!

And ACC? Hansbrough doesn't count .... I don't personnally believe that a town, 152 miles away from St. Louis is "from our area." I would say that "from the area" involves a geographic location within, say, a beltway loop or something like that, recognizing that its probably a little further. But not 150 miles. At 150 miles, living here in Baltimore and applying that logic, New York city is nearly in the "Baltimore area' by those definitions. DC most certainly is. So too are Philly and Richmond. Tyler was a one-time, freak of nature. I think it is safe to say that the trail beaten down to Poplar Bluff for his services will be a trail never used again. Or not for a long time. Brandenburg is in the same class as Suggs. I am not prepared to announce his career a success based on a signing. Ditto Harrelson.

I still remember when Sean Kowal signed out of DeSmet with Colorado. And some went nuts over us losing a potential 7-footer to the Big Twelve. What ever happened with him? I know I asked that before and recall he has transfered but again, so what. Would signing Kowal have meant anything? We don't know. When Jeff Carey went to Kansas with Robertson (I think) we bemoaned that. Did Carey contribute at Kansas? I don't think so but again, who knows what he does if he comes here.

I believe we can win with St. Louis kids. We have shown that in Bonner/Douglas/Gray/Hudson/Roder. Again for Claggett and Highmark. Ditto for Hughes, Baniak and Tatum. Maybe still with Liddell and Lisch. The not-so-great list is arguably a lot longer. Who local came and failed? Or maybe didn't have the greatest of success is a better question? Darryl Anderson, Matt Baniak (post Hughes), Eric Bickel, Chris Braun, Tyrone Caswell, Anthony Jones, Ramon Trice, Kevin grawer, Johnny Parker Sr., Melvin Robinson, Dale renken, Dick Missavage, Dwayne Polk, Nick Kern, Paul Jensen, John Duff, Ted Mimlitz, Bob Mueller -- the list can go on. I think was amplifies that is then the fact that various coaches, especially Spoon and BS, would then pretty much sign anybody and talk about them being "the poor man's Larry Hughes" or some other unrealisitic expectation and those guys, while being from out of town, would amplify the old "if your gonna fail do it with local guys at least" segment.

Bottom line: you can win with local talent, I just don't think it can be done consistently because the seeding grounds are not good enough for whatever reason. Douglas was 1986. Clagget 1992. Hughes 1998. This past class 2008. Four classes over 23 or so years. That's one class every four to five years. And that's providing you get it each time. I think if you get one or two from St. Louis almost every year, you are still going to have to supplant with other equal or better talent. All the time. If that works and you win, then you don't get to the point BS did where the next unusual class in the St. Louis area is your make-or-break night at the casino.

In the Big East, I was talking about Jared Swopshire. And you cant just say the jury is out on all these guys. They are obviously high-level recruits that SLU would've loved to have. And then you're trying to use MU's roster from last year as a guage of the talent in the state when most of the top talent said no thank you like Hansbrough, Releford, Tyus, etc. You forget that Grimes still had a year of eligibility remaining, but couldnt play for obvious reason. He was big-time national recruit who never got it going. MU has two in-state recruits coming in this year, and one of the nation's top pg's Micheal Dixon coming in next year after he chose MU or point guard U Arizona. This state has a ton of talent that feeds the power conference's every year. There have some top talents that just didnt qualify like 4 of Vashon's last 5 starting big, Gordon, Kern, Muse, and Powell, all big-time talents. Then you have kid like Richard Anderson who may not qualify. Back to the area. SLU missed out on guys Dane Brumagin who has been a dominant player at UMKC. Robert Archibald ended his career as a starter at Illinois, and there are other examples.

SLU signed 8 guys in this year's recruiting class. Take a second and imagine if those 8 guys would've been Josh Harrellson, John Brandenburg, Anthony Booker, Jared Swopshire, Scott Suggs, Torres Roundtree and any two of Ron Waller/Cotto/Soderberg/Hanlen.

SLU signed 8 guys