ACE Posted February 6, 2008 Share Posted February 6, 2008 Who schedules the bracket buster games? I noticed that the A10 has never been included which leads me to believe that our league is regarded as above "mid-major" status. Or is this just something that the A10 has chosen not to participate in? Either way, for this year, the A10 certainly is above "mid major". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billiken Rich Posted February 6, 2008 Share Posted February 6, 2008 Who schedules the bracket buster games? I noticed that the A10 has never been included which leads me to believe that our league is regarded as above "mid-major" status. Or is this just something that the A10 has chosen not to participate in? Either way, for this year, the A10 certainly is above "mid major". The A10 is, I believe trying mightily to avoid the "midmajor" tag....... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moytoy12 Posted February 6, 2008 Share Posted February 6, 2008 In a lot of the stories I have read about the A-10 this year, it seems the writers are taking pains to point out that the A-10 is really in a classification by itself being above the mid-majors, but below the BCS conferences. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scoop Posted February 6, 2008 Share Posted February 6, 2008 In a lot of the stories I have read about the A-10 this year, it seems the writers are taking pains to point out that the A-10 is really in a classification by itself being above the mid-majors, but below the BCS conferences. Jay Bilas made the statement on gameday a few weeks ago that "referring to any team in the A10 as a mid-major is rediculous." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NextYearBill Posted February 6, 2008 Share Posted February 6, 2008 Its not unusual for schools like UMass, St Joes, Temple, George Washington recently Xavier to make nice runs in the tournament. Bracket buster schools are just flashes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevinfootes Posted February 7, 2008 Share Posted February 7, 2008 Who schedules the bracket buster games? I noticed that the A10 has never been included which leads me to believe that our league is regarded as above "mid-major" status. Or is this just something that the A10 has chosen not to participate in? Either way, for this year, the A10 certainly is above "mid major". I think these games happen for a few reasons. #1 It's a tv event for mid-majors. #2 It gives mid-majors a chance to play another good rpi game. If you remember SLU's days prior to the GMC, they had a hell of a time getting home and home series with big programs (God bless Bobby Cremmins, Gene Keady, and a few others who agreed to play home and home with SLU in those days). I also think the A10 teams who want to play good opponents haven't had a much trouble over the years. The conference had a nice run of success and several of these teams have histories with some of the bigger eastern teams. The A10 probably feel like they don't want to have the mid major label (as a few others have mentioned already). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saluki762 Posted February 7, 2008 Share Posted February 7, 2008 Its not unusual for schools like UMass, St Joes, Temple, George Washington recently Xavier to make nice runs in the tournament. Bracket buster schools are just flashesAlthough I am not a fan of the event, SIU and Butler have done pretty well for BRacketbuster teams. I would rather see a MVC/A-10 challenge. I think it would be benificial for all teams involved. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bearvision Posted February 7, 2008 Share Posted February 7, 2008 Although I am not a fan of the event, SIU and Butler have done pretty well for BRacketbuster teams. I would rather see a MVC/A-10 challenge. I think it would be benificial for all teams involved. Agreed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marchmadness Posted February 8, 2008 Share Posted February 8, 2008 Although I am not a fan of the event, SIU and Butler have done pretty well for BRacketbuster teams. I would rather see a MVC/A-10 challenge. I think it would be benificial for all teams involved.That would be great if the valley and A-10 could have up years the same year. I would have liked to see last years Valley teams against this years A-10 teams. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saluki Posted February 8, 2008 Share Posted February 8, 2008 If the A-10 were anything but mid-major, this thread would not have been started. Someone is looking at the rearview mirror. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevinfootes Posted February 8, 2008 Share Posted February 8, 2008 If the A-10 were anything but mid-major, this thread would not have been started. Someone is looking at the rearview mirror. Well, at least it's better than the valley this year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bay Area Billiken Posted February 8, 2008 Share Posted February 8, 2008 That would be great if the valley and A-10 could have up years the same year. I would have liked to see last years Valley teams against this years A-10 teams. The A-10 has never been a mid-major and never will be. The A-10 is expected to get 4 teams in the NCAA, and very well could get 5 teams. The Valley has been a mid-major since the 1970's when Louisville, Cincinnati, Memphis (then Memphis State), and yes, SLU, left to form the Metro. There is a reason for that happening. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saluki762 Posted February 8, 2008 Share Posted February 8, 2008 The A-10 has never been a mid-major and never will be. The A-10 is expected to get 4 teams in the NCAA, and very well could get 5 teams. The Valley has been a mid-major since the 1970's when Louisville, Cincinnati, Memphis (then Memphis State), and yes, SLU, left to form the Metro. There is a reason for that happening. Stupid argument that will never get solved. Ask anyone from the ACC, Big East, Big 10, Big 12, or PAC 10 and they will tell you that the A-10 and Valley are both Mid Major conferences. ASk anyone from the A-10 or Valley and they will tell you they aren't. It is all about individual perceptions. Still thinking that a Valley/A-10 challenge would be great. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brianstl Posted February 8, 2008 Share Posted February 8, 2008 Stupid argument that will never get solved. Ask anyone from the ACC, Big East, Big 10, Big 12, or PAC 10 and they will tell you that the A-10 and Valley are both Mid Major conferences. ASk anyone from the A-10 or Valley and they will tell you they aren't. It is all about individual perceptions. Still thinking that a Valley/A-10 challenge would be great. Jay Bilas is hip deep in the ACC and he said the A-10 in not a Mid-Major. I would like to see that challenge as a basketball fan, but it will never happen. The A-10 would fear that would put it on a Mid-Major level. The A-10 does all it can to avoid that. It is the reason why they don't play in the Bracket Buster games. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted February 8, 2008 Share Posted February 8, 2008 it's a label that we are all guilt of abusing by trying to label teams as "majors", "mid-majors" or "low Majors". but there are no defined parameters that i am aware of. and if there are defined parameters, does that mean for example a "northwestern" that typically couldnt finish in the top half of the mvc or the a-10 is still a worthy "major"? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ACE Posted February 8, 2008 Author Share Posted February 8, 2008 If the A-10 were anything but mid-major, this thread would not have been started. Someone is looking at the rearview mirror. Boy, you're not making a leap about why I started this thread by drawing that conclusion. If we are going to do that, we can certainly draw some conclusions about why Saluki fans are still visiting the SLU board two months after playing us. There are several members of our local media who are on the MVC payroll who have trashed the A10 in recent years and have tried to paint the picture that the MVC is a FAR superior league. Outside of a couple of local media folks in St. Louis, the perception (and reality for that matter) throughout the country is that the A10 is better. Not being in the Bracket Buster is just further evidence. Aside from the previous couple of years where you have to give the MVC their due, the A10 has a much better history of NCAA Tourney success, plus putting more players in the NBA. That's indisputable. Order has been restored this year and the A10 is back to being better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saluki762 Posted February 8, 2008 Share Posted February 8, 2008 it's a label that we are all guilt of abusing by trying to label teams as "majors", "mid-majors" or "low Majors". but there are no defined parameters that i am aware of. and if there are defined parameters, does that mean for example a "northwestern" that typically couldnt finish in the top half of the mvc or the a-10 is still a worthy "major"?I think that is where the problem lies. There are several "major" conference teams, Northwestern, Nebraska, Iowa State that couldn't contend year in and year out in the Valley or A-10 and are not near the programs that Xavier, Dayton, Butler, SIU, Gonzaga have built. On the the opposite side of that are teams like St. Bonaventure, Fordham and Evansville who recently could not contend in the Ohio Valley let alone the A-10, MVC or any of the big 6 conferences. How can we even label these teams mid-majors. In the end Conference affiliation doesn't matter as much as the simple quality of the team. Memphis is in the 10th rated conference but I doub't anyone would call them a mid-major. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bay Area Billiken Posted February 8, 2008 Share Posted February 8, 2008 I think that is where the problem lies. There are several "major" conference teams, Northwestern, Nebraska, Iowa State that couldn't contend year in and year out in the Valley or A-10 and are not near the programs that Xavier, Dayton, Butler, SIU, Gonzaga have built. On the the opposite side of that are teams like St. Bonaventure, Fordham and Evansville who recently could not contend in the Ohio Valley let alone the A-10, MVC or any of the big 6 conferences. How can we even label these teams mid-majors. In the end Conference affiliation doesn't matter as much as the simple quality of the team. Memphis is in the 10th rated conference but I doub't anyone would call them a mid-major. Memphis is not and has not been a mid-major, at least not since the late 1960's. Memphis is stuck right now in the remnant of the once strong basketball league, C-USA, primarily due to football and with all its old rivals elsewhere. At one point C-USA was not considered mid-major, but that was before most of its basketball schools except Memphis moved to the Big East (Louisville, Cincinnati, Marquette, and DePaul) and to the A-10 (Charlotte and SLU). The WCC, including Gonzaga, does not usually object to being called a mid-major. St. Mary's is routinely considered to be a mid-major out here. But the WCC is almost certain to get 2 of its 8 teams into this year's NCAA Tournament. Fordham has had a disappointing season so far with a Senior dominated team that has underachieved. But I would not lump Fordham with St. Bonaventure and Evansville. Fordham may still rally before this season ends. The A-10 rightly disdains mid-major references. Xavier refused that mid-major award given to Drew Lavender. As the 7th highest rated conference per the RPI and the highest rated non-BCS conference, the A-10 is not a mid-major. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bay Area Billiken Posted February 8, 2008 Share Posted February 8, 2008 Memphis is not and has not been a mid-major, at least not since the late 1960's. Memphis is stuck right now in the remnant of the once strong basketball league, C-USA, primarily due to football and with all its old rivals elsewhere. At one point C-USA was not considered mid-major, but that was before most of its basketball schools except Memphis moved to the Big East (Louisville, Cincinnati, Marquette, and DePaul) and to the A-10 (Charlotte and SLU). The WCC, including Gonzaga, does not usually object to being called a mid-major. St. Mary's is routinely considered to be a mid-major out here. But the WCC is almost certain to get 2 of its 8 teams into this year's NCAA Tournament. Fordham has had a disappointing season so far with a Senior dominated team that has underachieved. But I would not lump Fordham with St. Bonaventure and Evansville. Fordham may still rally before this season ends. The A-10 rightly disdains mid-major references. Xavier refused that mid-major award given to Drew Lavender. As the 7th highest rated conference per the RPI and the highest rated non-BCS conference, the A-10 is not a mid-major. Also, where is the Valley loving STL press this year? There is no question that the A-10 is stronger than the MVC this season. Drake is in first place in the Valley. If Drake wins the Valley Tournament, which is still doubtful, the Valley may be Juan Done in the NCAA this season. Imagine that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bearvision Posted February 8, 2008 Share Posted February 8, 2008 No arguments that the A-10 is having a better season this year. It is cyclical, and the reason I wasn't beating my chest the past several years while the Valley has been the better conference. The Valley will be up again next year, and hopefully several years after that. The A-10 will probably be a good conference as well next year. Hating another conference because you want to be known as the best "non-BCS" conference is petty and silly IMO. I want the Valley to be up each year for the same reason the BCS schools want us to be down: Money. The conference shares the money from each school that gets in, and the more than get in, the more money for my school's AD. The more Valley/A-10 etc. schools that get in, the less money for the BCS conferences. Now, if my school could just find a way to be one of those teams getting into the tournament, that'd be grrrreeeeaaaat... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bay Area Billiken Posted February 8, 2008 Share Posted February 8, 2008 No arguments that the A-10 is having a better season this year. It is cyclical, and the reason I wasn't beating my chest the past several years while the Valley has been the better conference. The Valley will be up again next year, and hopefully several years after that. The A-10 will probably be a good conference as well next year. Hating another conference because you want to be known as the best "non-BCS" conference is petty and silly IMO. I want the Valley to be up each year for the same reason the BCS schools want us to be down: Money. The conference shares the money from each school that gets in, and the more than get in, the more money for my school's AD. The more Valley/A-10 etc. schools that get in, the less money for the BCS conferences. Now, if my school could just find a way to be one of those teams getting into the tournament, that'd be grrrreeeeaaaat... This poster does not hate the Valley. Actually, I like and respect the Valley. What I don't like is all the ridicule that SLU has taken from its own hometown press over the decision to join the A-10 and not rejoin the Valley. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted February 8, 2008 Share Posted February 8, 2008 No arguments that the A-10 is having a better season this year. It is cyclical, and the reason I wasn't beating my chest the past several years while the Valley has been the better conference. it has definitely not been "cyclical". the mvc had the higher rpi rating in 2007, 2006, and 2005. prior to that, the a-10 was the better conference and consistently garnered more ncaa spots. kudos to doug elgin for figuring out the rpi system adn making that happen for that three year run. i am still hoping the a-10 runs to elgin with a huge bag of money to make him our next commish. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pistol Posted February 8, 2008 Share Posted February 8, 2008 it has definitely not been "cyclical". the mvc had the higher rpi rating in 2007, 2006, and 2005. prior to that, the a-10 was the better conference and consistently garnered more ncaa spots. kudos to doug elgin for figuring out the rpi system adn making that happen for that three year run. i am still hoping the a-10 runs to elgin with a huge bag of money to make him our next commish. Yeah, and with the scheduling the A10 has committed itself to plus the incoming recruiting classes, it's going to be a while before the Valley is at the same level as the A10. No disrespect to a good conference, I just don't think in the long term it's as good. 2005-2007 were more of an exception to the rule than a natural turn in the cycle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saluki762 Posted February 9, 2008 Share Posted February 9, 2008 it has definitely not been "cyclical". the mvc had the higher rpi rating in 2007, 2006, and 2005. prior to that, the a-10 was the better conference and consistently garnered more ncaa spots. kudos to doug elgin for figuring out the rpi system adn making that happen for that three year run. i am still hoping the a-10 runs to elgin with a huge bag of money to make him our next commish. 4 out of the last 10 years the MVC has been higher than the A-10, so /it is pretty close to even. The highest the A-10 has been is 7th, the lowest they have been is 15th. The highest the MVC has been is 6th, the lowest they have been is 14th. I would say that over this time period they are about as close to even as you get. With the way recruiting is going, both conference's should be posed to continue being the best non-BCS conference's year in and year out and continue the argument between Valley and A-10 fans. I look forward to it since the "power" 6 conferences refuse to let anyone else be a part of their club. I dont think anything more than the past 10 years matters because tomorrows recruits don't care that UMass made the final four in 1996. Just like they don't care that Wichita State was awesome in the early 80's, they were 6-9 years old. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NH Posted February 9, 2008 Share Posted February 9, 2008 4 out of the last 10 years the MVC has been higher than the A-10, so /it is pretty close to even. The highest the A-10 has been is 7th, the lowest they have been is 15th. The highest the MVC has been is 6th, the lowest they have been is 14th. I would say that over this time period they are about as close to even as you get. With the way recruiting is going, both conference's should be posed to continue being the best non-BCS conference's year in and year out and continue the argument between Valley and A-10 fans. I look forward to it since the "power" 6 conferences refuse to let anyone else be a part of their club. I dont think anything more than the past 10 years matters because tomorrows recruits don't care that UMass made the final four in 1996. Just like they don't care that Wichita State was awesome in the early 80's, they were 6-9 years old. If your players were 6-9 in the early 80s THat is scary. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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