man this must kill you mvc lovers

[billiken_roy]

http://www.kenpom.com/confrank.php?y=2008

the A-10 is now up to 6th overall and the mvc down to 8th.

[brianstl]

http://www.kenpom.com/confrank.php?y=2008

the A-10 is now up to 6th overall and the mvc down to 8th.

I think it might even be a little harder for the Big Ten lovers. That conference is not very good this year. I am sure the Illini boards are a treat this morning after last nigts loss to Miami Ohio. Moosman's team is pretty good.

[StLouBlue]

Actually the MVC is about where I hoped it would be, around the 7th spot of the conferences. I figured the MVC would be down a some this year with all of the coaching changes and several teams losing key seniors from last season. I expected jrs & underclassmen to step up and some have but the MVC this year will not be as good as it was the last couple of years though.

I think it still shows the strength of the MVC that even a down year the league is still competing to be the best non-BCS league in the country. I still think the MVC will probably get 2 bids this year, but there is a long conference season to play out first.

[SShoe]

The only way the Valley gets two teams is if Drake, Creighton, or Mo State absolutely dominate the league. If the tourney started today, not one of these teams would be in without an automatic bid. Valley teams have to grab the attention of the committee with really good non-conference wins and none of these teams have em.

[billiken_roy]

I think it might even be a little harder for the Big Ten lovers. That conference is not very good this year. I am sure the Illini boards are a treat this morning after last nigts loss to Miami Ohio. Moosman's team is pretty good.

i expect the illini to lose tomorrow night. the streak will end.

[slufanskip]

Actually the MVC is about where I hoped it would be, around the 7th spot of the conferences. I figured the MVC would be down a some this year with all of the coaching changes and several teams losing key seniors from last season. I expected jrs & underclassmen to step up and some have but the MVC this year will not be as good as it was the last couple of years though.

I think it still shows the strength of the MVC that even a down year the league is still competing to be the best non-BCS league in the country. I still think the MVC will probably get 2 bids this year, but there is a long conference season to play out first.

I agree. I think the A10 is better for SLU than the MVC (especially if the A10 would dump 2 teams) but there is no denying that the MVC is a very good league. The 8th best league is nothing to scoff about. During the last few years I thought good scheduling made the MVC appear better than it was, but even with that said it was still the best non BCS league in the country.

[slu72]

i expect the illini to lose tomorrow night. the streak will end.

Speaking of SOS, looks like we or Duquense didn't do bad against a really good Pitt team in Pitt. Course this doesn't explain the meltdowns at KSU and BC, other than we were on physical and mental overloads in both games. If per some chance we can get decent play out of BH and BE the rest of the way, avoid a serious injury, and get RM's system to be more instinctive, who knows? Merry Xmas one and all a Happy New Year. Be safe out there.

[billiken_roy]

Actually the MVC is about where I hoped it would be, around the 7th spot of the conferences. I figured the MVC would be down a some this year with all of the coaching changes and several teams losing key seniors from last season. I expected jrs & underclassmen to step up and some have but the MVC this year will not be as good as it was the last couple of years though.

I think it still shows the strength of the MVC that even a down year the league is still competing to be the best non-BCS league in the country. I still think the MVC will probably get 2 bids this year, but there is a long conference season to play out first.

if the season ended right now, the mvc is a tourney champ one bid only conference. not a single team under 40 rpi. the committee will go out of their way to stick em since they beat the system the last couple of seasons.

the mvc needs a team or two to have a spectacular conference run and then a different tourney winner for multiple bid it seems right now.

i guess that can change, but it is now getting to the point where a lot of the rpi paths are set.

[kshoe]

The only way the Valley gets two teams is if Drake, Creighton, or Mo State absolutely dominate the league. If the tourney started today, not one of these teams would be in without an automatic bid. Valley teams have to grab the attention of the committee with really good non-conference wins and none of these teams have em.

How many times duing the last couple years have we heard people on this very board talk about the A-10 only getting one bid and low and behold we always get 2. This "if the tourney started today stuff" seems pretty ridiculous in December.

If any of those teams you mentioned above win the regular season and then falter in the tourney you can bet pretty good money the league will get 2.

Similarly, the A-10 has 4, maybe 5 if you include Duq, viable at-large candidates but those teams will need to finish near the top of the league to still be viable at the end of the year. If two teams dominate the league and everyone else has 6 or 7 losses and one of the top 2 win the conference tourney we'll only get 2.

The point is, there are a million variations of what can still go down and predicting bids in December is iffy at best.

[StLouBlue]

The only way the Valley gets two teams is if Drake, Creighton, or Mo State absolutely dominate the league. If the tourney started today, not one of these teams would be in without an automatic bid. Valley teams have to grab the attention of the committee with really good non-conference wins and none of these teams have em.

The top 5 teams in the MVC all have a chance at 20+ wins. If they go 13-5 or 14-4 in conference they get to 20, throw in that some still have a non-conference game yet and there is also a bracket buster game out there also. I would expect 3 or 4 teams to have 20+ wins. The one other thing that has been in favor of the MVC is usually the regular season champion gets beat in the MVC tourney, this is kind of my fallback hope if 2 or more teams don't put together a resume for the NCAAs.

Also, just looking at Drake's schedule, they beat both Iowa & Iowa St, a good Duquense team(36 RPI) & lost to St Marys(2 RPI). I don't think Drake will dominate the MVC, but if they go 13-5, they should be in the mix of getting an NCAA bid. Creighton's only loss is to a good Xavier team & have wins over NE & DePaul. Bradley also has wins over Iowa & Iowa St along with Wright St, losses were to Ill-Chi(123 RPI), Vandy(1 RPI), Mich St(21 RPI)& Butler(11 RPI). Iowa(248 RPI) & Iowa St(113 RPI) do good in conference will really help the MVC team's resumes. I don't know much about that Iowa team but I have a hard time thinking they will finish above 200 in the RPI.

Like I said before though, there is a lot of basketball to be played in both the MVC & A10 before all of this is answered.

[cheeseman]

How many times duing the last couple years have we heard people on this very board talk about the A-10 only getting one bid and low and behold we always get 2. This "if the tourney started today stuff" seems pretty ridiculous in December.

If any of those teams you mentioned above win the regular season and then falter in the tourney you can bet pretty good money the league will get 2.

Similarly, the A-10 has 4, maybe 5 if you include Duq, viable at-large candidates but those teams will need to finish near the top of the league to still be viable at the end of the year. If two teams dominate the league and everyone else has 6 or 7 losses and one of the top 2 win the conference tourney we'll only get 2.

The point is, there are a million variations of what can still go down and predicting bids in December is iffy at best.

As always, the at large bid scene is complicated by what happens if conf winners are not the tourney champ. Every year 4-5 surprises happen that cause a team that would have gotten an at large bid to be left out. I agree it is hard to predict this early.

[StLouBlue]

if the season ended right now, the mvc is a tourney champ one bid only conference. not a single team under 40 rpi. the committee will go out of their way to stick em since they beat the system the last couple of seasons.

the mvc needs a team or two to have a spectacular conference run and then a different tourney winner for multiple bid it seems right now.

i guess that can change, but it is now getting to the point where a lot of the rpi paths are set.

On your last line, the RPIs are getting to the point of being mostly set for the conferences since there are few out of conference games left. For the individual teams though there will be a lot of movement. Talking about each team's RPI at this point in the season while kind of interesting doesn't really mean much as far as how NCAA bids will be handed out.

[SShoe]

How many times duing the last couple years have we heard people on this very board talk about the A-10 only getting one bid and low and behold we always get 2. This "if the tourney started today stuff" seems pretty ridiculous in December.

If any of those teams you mentioned above win the regular season and then falter in the tourney you can bet pretty good money the league will get 2.

Similarly, the A-10 has 4, maybe 5 if you include Duq, viable at-large candidates but those teams will need to finish near the top of the league to still be viable at the end of the year. If two teams dominate the league and everyone else has 6 or 7 losses and one of the top 2 win the conference tourney we'll only get 2.

The point is, there are a million variations of what can still go down and predicting bids in December is iffy at best.

While I agree it's early, what happens in non-conference is very important for non-BCS schools. BCS schools have the luxury of playing against each other during the conference schedule and getting the "quality wins". MVC or A-10 teams don't have that luxury, so they need a number of non-conference victories over teams in BCS conferences. The A-10 has done that this year. The Valley has not. Somebody mentioned Iowa and Iowa State, but both of those teams are pretty awful this year.

Also, the A-10, despite having two teams in the tourney last year, was essentially a one-bid league. Xavier was the only at-large squad, so when I say one-bid, I mean at-large bids.

[billiken_roy]

On your last line, the RPIs are getting to the point of being mostly set for the conferences since there are few out of conference games left. For the individual teams though there will be a lot of movement. Talking about each team's RPI at this point in the season while kind of interesting doesn't really mean much as far as how NCAA bids will be handed out.

while of course we have no "offical words" to go on, i think history has demonstrated that the higher the conference finish there is a direct correlation to number of bids given for the non bcs conferences. the higher the conference finishes overall the better chance there is to get more bids.

i have not talked about any teams specifically in this string. only taking great joy that the A-10 has weathered the non-conference schedule very well thus far this season and expressing my opinion that if it plays out at year end as it stands now, the a-10 will get more at large bids than the other non bcs conferences.

of course there is a lot of basketball to be played and of course to predict individual teams would be nothing but wild eyed speculation at this time. but imo come the end of the year as you go into conference play it is the first time you can really look at the rpi and start to see the trends that will influence the year end tourney scene.

thus it becomes interesting to begin paying closer attention.

[saluki762]

http://www.kenpom.com/confrank.php?y=2008

the A-10 is now up to 6th overall and the mvc down to 8th.

6th-10th is basically the same. Even though the A-10 is ranked higher they have still only managed a 3-3 record against Valley teams. Seems pretty even to me.

[billiken_roy]

6th-10th is basically the same. Seems pretty even to me.

hahahahahahaha were you saying that last year?

[StLouBlue]

while of course we have no "offical words" to go on, i think history has demonstrated that the higher the conference finish there is a direct correlation to number of bids given for the non bcs conferences. the higher the conference finishes overall the better chance there is to get more bids.

i have not talked about any teams specifically in this string. only taking great joy that the A-10 has weathered the non-conference schedule very well thus far this season and expressing my opinion that if it plays out at year end as it stands now, the a-10 will get more at large bids than the other non bcs conferences.

of course there is a lot of basketball to be played and of course to predict individual teams would be nothing but wild eyed speculation at this time. but imo come the end of the year as you go into conference play it is the first time you can really look at the rpi and start to see the trends that will influence the year end tourney scene.

thus it becomes interesting to begin paying closer attention.

I think you are wrong on the higher the conference is rated the higher number of bids. I think it does come down to how each individual team does. Last year the MVC as a conference was #6-2 bids, '06 MVC was #6-4 bids, '05 MVC #8-3 bids, '04 MVC #11-2 bids.

A10 '07 #10-2 bids, '06 #11-2 bids, '05 #15-1 bid, '04 #8-4 bids.

Now I think there could be a kind of ceiling in place for the non-BCS conferences. I think in '06 the MVC faced this with the NCAA not wanting to have 1/2 of the conference in the NCAA tourney. With the A10 being a larger conference, I don't think we will have to worry about getting a 7th team anytime soon though. I do think the A10 has a real shot at getting 4 teams this year, but see 3 as most likely.

As far as the A10 getting more bids than any other non-BCS conference, again that would't be too surprising given the A10 has more teams in it than any other non-BCS conference that enter the discussion of multiple NCAA bids.

A10 14 teams

MVC 10 teams

Mt West 9 teams

Horizon 10 teams

WCC 8 teams

MAC 12 teams

CUSA 12 teams

Colonial 12 teams

[saluki762]

hahahahahahaha were you saying that last year?

Sure but I am not a MVC homer. Would I like the conference to do well because I am a SIU fan? Yes but at the end of the year, I could care less if SIU gets the only Valley bid or if the conference gets 4 bids. I only care what my team has done. I don't care if the Valley is 30th in RPI as long as the dawgs are good. I would take Gonzaga's situation every year, good non-conference schedule to make up for weak conference. Wouldn't bother me at all.

If you look at previous posts here, I have said the same thing. I think I had the exact same quote in the Kent State game thread and no one had any issue with it, in fact some people here agreed with me. Now that the two conferences have switched places I am of course an idiot.

Anyway, congratulations SLU has the 7th best RPI in the 6th rated conference in the country and Merry Christmas.

[brianstl]

Sure but I am not a MVC homer. Would I like the conference to do well because I am a SIU fan? Yes but at the end of the year, I could care less if SIU gets the only Valley bid or if the conference gets 4 bids. I only care what my team has done. I don't care if the Valley is 30th in RPI as long as the dawgs are good. I would take Gonzaga's situation every year, good non-conference schedule to make up for weak conference. Wouldn't bother me at all.

If you look at previous posts here, I have said the same thing. I think I had the exact same quote in the Kent State game thread and no one had any issue with it, in fact some people here agreed with me. Now that the two conferences have switched places I am of course an idiot.

Anyway, congratulations SLU has the 7th best RPI in the 6th rated conference in the country and Merry Christmas.

You forgot to add that we also own a victory over SIUC.

[saluki762]

You forgot to add that we also own a victory over SIUC.

and still have a lower RPI. Shows you how good of a stat it is.

[brianstl]

and still have a lower RPI. Shows you how good of a stat it is.

I will take the win right now. Our RPI number will go up as we go along this season.

[saluki762]

I will take the win right now. Our RPI number will go up as we go along this season.

I would take the win as well. Our RPI will go up as well because even in a down year, the bottom of the MVC is not as bad as the bottom of the A-10. The top of the A-10 is much stronger but you have to win those games before they help the RPI.

[MOStateFan]

Take a look at it now: http://www.kenpom.com/confrank.php?y=2008

The world is right again.

I come on here from time to time to get info on St. Louis area recruits, but it seems like every other week there is a post taking shots at the Valley. What's up with that? I don't think I've ever seen a post tearing down the A-10 or any other conference in years of posting on the Missouri State board.

Go Bears and Billikens!

[Quality Is Job 1]

I come on here from time to time to get info on St. Louis area recruits, but it seems like every other week there is a post taking shots at the Valley. What's up with that? I don't think I've ever seen a post tearing down the A-10 or any other conference in years of posting on the Missouri State board.

No, but if Missouri State had been in Conference USA and would have had the choice between moving to the Valley or the Horizon, you'd see plenty of posts tearing down the Horizon.

[davidnark]

Take a look at it now: http://www.kenpom.com/confrank.php?y=2008

The world is right again.

I come on here from time to time to get info on St. Louis area recruits, but it seems like every other week there is a post taking shots at the Valley. What's up with that? I don't think I've ever seen a post tearing down the A-10 or any other conference in years of posting on the Missouri State board.

Go Bears and Billikens!

Here's another point of view: Conference Ratings