Majerus Criticism -- My Thoughts

[kevinfootes]

hardball, i was preaching patience when we had a first time d-1 head coach with 5 years experience and an asst coaching staff that had zero years of head coaching experience, and financial support that was probably a tenth of what it is now.

now we have a hall of fame coach that has two head coaches with as much head coaching experience as soderberg had plus a budget to run his program that is far far far better funded. for that, i expect at minimum a repeat of last year. i hope we win 20 games.

and you are right hardball, i hate starting over. didnt think we were with the likes of rick majerus, but apparently we were. i guess i can say i told you so then. thanks for reminding me.

What's going on right now is a perfect example of why coaching changes are difficult. I thought RM might have a few tricks up his sleeve to get something extra from this team. We'll see where the team is when conference play comes around. It could still happen.

These things take time, but I do believe there will be a turning point this year...SLU will come out and play much better one game and won't regress. Not that they'll run the table at that point, but they'll be more consistent from that point on.

[billi-can]

Iwas at a resturant after the longbeach game and in comes two of our players I wont state their names.And they were talking about RM they said and I quote coach needs to change this system.Ever our players are complaining.RM talks about our players in the media, how does he expect kids to go out there and play after he says they lack talent.

[slu72]

The Indians ain't running the tribe here. Especially when the Chief has been in and won a lot more impressive battles than they have. There angst over RM is similar to that of employess when a new manager shows up and wants to change the system, procedures, and culture of an organization. Most people are opposed to change as it means more work; learning new ways, repetition to get it right, etc. I'd be disappointed in RM if he gave in to the whims of players who've not experienced an iota of the success RM has. My criticism of RM so far is the public bashing of players. He knew the hand he was dealt before he took the job. Remember he said he viewed a lot of tapes from last year. So, the lack of talent should not be an excuse for the team's poor play to date. They are what they are. But increasing the pressures on them via the media to my way of thinking is not going to get them to perform better or learn quicker. Probably will have just the opposite effect on them, ie more anxiety, more doubts, less confidence. It's a coach's job to constructively criticize a player, but it's best done behind closed doors. At the least, the only comment RM should make about his players is en masse, ie "We just don't have the depth of talent at this time to compete at a high level." It's true, and objective knowledgeable fans know it's true. The players know it as well. There's no good reason to single individuals out in the public arena.

[slufanskip]

Iwas at a resturant after the longbeach game and in comes two of our players I wont state their names.And they were talking about RM they said and I quote coach needs to change this system.Ever our players are complaining.RM talks about our players in the media, how does he expect kids to go out there and play after he says they lack talent.

Yea ok.

[kshoe]

hardball, i was preaching patience when we had a first time d-1 head coach with 5 years experience and an asst coaching staff that had zero years of head coaching experience, and financial support that was probably a tenth of what it is now.

now we have a hall of fame coach that has two head coaches with as much head coaching experience as soderberg had plus a budget to run his program that is far far far better funded. for that, i expect at minimum a repeat of last year. i hope we win 20 games.

and you are right hardball, i hate starting over. didnt think we were with the likes of rick majerus, but apparently we were. i guess i can say i told you so then. thanks for reminding me.

Roy, I'm truly confused as to why you believe SLU's increased financial support should lead to more victories in this year. Unless that money is being used to pay off the refs I don't see how more money for the program would necessarily make the same players play better. Now down the line in a few years when a larger recruitng budget has been used and recruits see the benefits of a larger budget (better facilities, a real t.v. package, etc.) I would agree, but I just don't see how a Luke Meyer should be expected to all of a sudden be 10X better just because you believe our budget is 10X bigger.

[slufanskip]

Roy, I'm truly confused as to why you believe SLU's increased financial support should lead to more victories in this year. Unless that money is being used to pay off the refs I don't see how more money for the program would necessarily make the same players play better. Now down the line in a few years when a larger recruitng budget has been used and recruits see the benefits of a larger budget (better facilities, a real t.v. package, etc.) I would agree, but I just don't see how a Luke Meyer should be expected to all of a sudden be 10X better just because you believe our budget is 10X bigger.

I'm with you Kshoe. I'm not surprised at where we are right now. A few games were different than I had hoped. I thought we would be Long Beach by a larger margin, I thought we'd lose to Pitt worse than we did, and I thought we'd kep it within 39 to Kent St. Overall we just need a little patience. Give it time to work out.

[billiken_roy]

Roy, I'm truly confused as to why you believe SLU's increased financial support should lead to more victories in this year. Unless that money is being used to pay off the refs I don't see how more money for the program would necessarily make the same players play better. Now down the line in a few years when a larger recruitng budget has been used and recruits see the benefits of a larger budget (better facilities, a real t.v. package, etc.) I would agree, but I just don't see how a Luke Meyer should be expected to all of a sudden be 10X better just because you believe our budget is 10X bigger.

travel is easier, we have a better strength and conditioning program. majerus told us about how they have installed a nutrition program to enable the players to eat better, etc. to not see how additional money for the program doesnt equate to immediate results is incredible.

[ACE]

travel is easier, we have a better strength and conditioning program. majerus told us about how they have installed a nutrition program to enable the players to eat better, etc. to not see how additional money for the program doesnt equate to immediate results is incredible.

BUT WE'RE STILL PLAYING WITH SODERBERG'S ROSTER.

[billiken_roy]

BUT WE'RE STILL PLAYING WITH SODERBERG'S ROSTER.

which won 20 games last year but wont this year.

lucky for us though, it is pretty obvious that most will all be gone by next year.

[ACE]

They didn't even make the NIT and lost one of their top 3 players.

When Sodergerg rightfully got canned, this roster was minus Ian and still without Eberhardt and Eckerle. What was Soderberg's plan to replace Ian? Who was he planning on using at the 4? Or was he just planning on saving more scholarships?

[billiken_roy]

guess you would have to ask soderberg that.

all i know is that we have the complete roster minus the one player that is playing for an athens ymca team now and justin johnson and this team looks worse than ever.

[ACE]

All you need to know about Soderberg is that the guy playing for the Athens YMCA is far better than any big he left on this year's roster and even Justin Johnson is better than the guy who was in line to replace him - Adam Knollmeyer. After 5 years on the job, Sodie left the team without a center, a 4 and a questionable point guard, plus he missed postseason play 3 consecutive seasons... other than that, he was great.

[AMDG]

guess you would have to ask soderberg that.

all i know is that we have the complete roster minus the one player that is playing for an athens ymca team now and justin johnson and this team looks worse than ever.

Vouyoukas is the starting center for Rethmymno BC in the A1 Ethniki league. That is the highest level of basketball in Greece. That is a little better than a YMCA team if you ask me. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ian_Vouyoukas

[mcglotherirvin]

you keep saying we look worse than ever but i have not seen an intelligent response to my post on the other thread re: soderberg's 9-win season when we lost to austin peay, e michigan and oral roberts in three of our first 5 games. contrary to your assertion in that thread, that was NOT soderberg's first season at SLU as head coach. it was his third. do we really look worse now than that team

guess you would have to ask soderberg that.

all i know is that we have the complete roster minus the one player that is playing for an athens ymca team now and justin johnson and this team looks worse than ever.

[Postcard]

I think Axl said it best.

Shed a tear 'cause I'm missing you

I'm still alright to smile

Girl, I think about you every day now

Was a time when I wasn't sure

But you set my mind at ease

There is no doubt you're in my heart now

Said woman take it slow

It'll work itself out fine

All we need is just a little patience

Said sugar make it slow

And we'll come together fine

All we need is just a little patience

(inhale) Patience...

Ooh, oh, yeah

Sit here on the stairs

'Cause I'd rather be alone

If I can't have you right now, I'll wait dear

Sometimes, I get so tense

But I can't speed up the time

But you know, love, there's one more thing to consider

Said woman take it slow

Things will be just fine

You and I'll just use a little patience

Said sugar take the time

'Cause the lights are shining bright

You and I've got what it takes to make it

We won't fake it, Oh never break it

'Cause I can't take it

...little patience, mm yeah, ooh yeah,

Need a little patience, yeah

Just a little patience, yeah

Some more pati... (ence, yeah)

I've been walking these streets at night

Just trying to get it right (Need some patience, yeah)

It's hard to see with so many around

You know I don't like being stuck in a crowd (Could use some patience, yeah)

And the streets don't change but maybe the name

I ain't got time for the game

'Cause I need you (Patience, yeah)

Yeah, yeah well I need you

Oh, I need you (Take some patience)

Whoa, I need you (Just a little patience is all we need)

Ooh, this ti- me....

[3star_recruit]

I agree that this team is unlikely to look spectacular on offense this year due to the lack of interior post threat, 3-point specialist, and high-flying athletes

David, having seen most of the players we're bringing in next year, there isn't a better interior post threat than Eberhardt among them or a three point specialist. And RM's success has never depended on high flying athletes. Besides, other than Reed, we don't have any of them coming in either.

[kwyjibo]

Stop the complaining!!!!!

Wow. Sometimes the hyprocrisy can be staggering.

[billiken_roy]

you keep saying we look worse than ever but i have not seen an intelligent response to my post on the other thread re: soderberg's 9-win season when we lost to austin peay, e michigan and oral roberts in three of our first 5 games. contrary to your assertion in that thread, that was NOT soderberg's first season at SLU as head coach. it was his third. do we really look worse now than that team

i believe frericks was hurt in like the first or second game and reggie was never right that season. if lisch and liddell were both hurt i would be agree those two seasons can be compared.

that said, my whole issue is that we have this unbelievable credentialled coaching staff (and i am not saying that sarcastically. i believe in majerus and i truly believe that long term it will be fantastic) and nothing seems right. i dont even want to compare coaching staffs. for those of you that think my rants are about soderberg vs majerus you are way off base. i would trade soderberg and his staff in a new york second for this staff. majerus is the greatest thing that has happened to slu basketball ever. but why throw away a season?

i just think that too much apparently is being sacrificed short term for whatever his long term thinking must be. this team should be better than it has shown and the fans deserve to get the best they can get out of a team.

folks have said it is about installing a new system. yet we basically see the same basketball we have seen since larry hughes was here. davidnark said it is because last year we played a 4 out and 1 in system on offense and now we have a low and high post offense. i believe we used a high and low post offense two years ago and all the players now playing played here two years ago as well. there is more to this story than new systems and cold shooting. i dont know what it is, but it bothers the hell out of me.

[ACE]

you keep saying we look worse than ever but i have not seen an intelligent response to my post on the other thread re: soderberg's 9-win season when we lost to austin peay, e michigan and oral roberts in three of our first 5 games. contrary to your assertion in that thread, that was NOT soderberg's first season at SLU as head coach. it was his third. do we really look worse now than that team

Roy, will use the excuse of the Tom Frericks injury. Roy will belittle Ian's ability, yet for some bizarre reason, he seemed to think Frericks was a big-time center. I sort of remember Frericks as a sericeable, yet somewhat limited center. His injury shouldn't have caused the team to implode like that. It just further highlights the lack of depth that was a trademark of Soderberg teams.

[ACE]

Vouyoukas is the starting center for Rethmymno BC in the A1 Ethniki league. That is the highest level of basketball in Greece. That is a little better than a YMCA team if you ask me. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ian_Vouyoukas

So another "roymor" is not quite true?

[kwyjibo]

Majerus is trying to turn around what is essentially a decade of down basketball, and everyone is ready to write him off because his team got creamed against a good mid-major team on the road. I am just trying to add some perspective to the insanity.

I definitely think we should be somewhat patient (you are right it is a new system) but the hypocrisy here is hilarious. You vehemently and viciously attacked Soderberg BEFORE he coached ONE game. Now you are calling for all of us to do what you yourself couldn't do. Right message, totally wrong person. We have NOT had a decade of "down" basketball--this is a grievous insult to every fan and every player over the last 10 years. We are not a top 50 program but he had some post-season, a winning record in nearly every season, and some exciting wins.

Also, I was giggling all summer reading here about how Majerus was going to turn this team immediately around and we would be in the NCAA tournament this year. SEVERAL people posted that we had a good nucleus and that Majerus would get them over the top (I thought Majerus was going to cure cancer before summer ended reading this board). Fact is at least half the people predicted this team to the post-season. NOW its all about how its Soderberg's team and "I never said they were any good". Sad and hilarious.

The fact is this is a decent team and it should do well. This team can put it together and win a bunch of games. Majerus is trying to rebuild this team from scratch. It is very possible this will all work out fine this year and I believe we all hope it will. But considering in years past, people invented counterfactuals in order to our coach (if Soderberg did this, than obviously we would win), I find it very curious that some of the very same people who invented counterfactual claims in order to criticize are now sensitive to fact based arguments (it is fact we lost by 40).

Oh, here is a fact for all those who criticized Soderberg's offenses and defensive schemes. This team is currently LESS efficient on offense, LESS efficient on defense, AND plays at a slower tempo. I know any attempt to produce a factual argument results in claims in somehow I am defending Soderberg (in a way I am but only because he was treated ridiculously unfairly time and time again by a good chunk of this board).

[billiken_roy]

So another "roymor" is not quite true?

so ace, the champion of that greece league will play the celtics next july for the championship of the world?

[cheeseman]

Iwas at a resturant after the longbeach game and in comes two of our players I wont state their names.And they were talking about RM they said and I quote coach needs to change this system.Ever our players are complaining.RM talks about our players in the media, how does he expect kids to go out there and play after he says they lack talent.

Sorry, I find your post to be with out merit and probably just a lie to stir the pot.

[slu72]

I definitely think we should be somewhat patient (you are right it is a new system) but the hypocrisy here is hilarious. You vehemently and viciously attacked Soderberg BEFORE he coached ONE game. Now you are calling for all of us to do what you yourself couldn't do. Right message, totally wrong person. We have NOT had a decade of "down" basketball--this is a grievous insult to every fan and every player over the last 10 years. We are not a top 50 program but he had some post-season, a winning record in nearly every season, and some exciting wins.

Also, I was giggling all summer reading here about how Majerus was going to turn this team immediately around and we would be in the NCAA tournament this year. SEVERAL people posted that we had a good nucleus and that Majerus would get them over the top (I thought Majerus was going to cure cancer before summer ended reading this board). Fact is at least half the people predicted this team to the post-season. NOW its all about how its Soderberg's team and "I never said they were any good". Sad and hilarious.

The fact is this is a decent team and it should do well. This team can put it together and win a bunch of games. Majerus is trying to rebuild this team from scratch. It is very possible this will all work out fine this year and I believe we all hope it will. But considering in years past, people invented counterfactuals in order to our coach (if Soderberg did this, than obviously we would win), I find it very curious that some of the very same people who invented counterfactual claims in order to criticize are now sensitive to fact based arguments (it is fact we lost by 40).

Oh, here is a fact for all those who criticized Soderberg's offenses and defensive schemes. This team is currently LESS efficient on offense, LESS efficient on defense, AND plays at a slower tempo. I know any attempt to produce a factual argument results in claims in somehow I am defending Soderberg (in a way I am but only because he was treated ridiculously unfairly time and time again by a good chunk of this board).

Kwijibo, you always make sense. However, UB's downfall was poor recruiting. He paid the price for it season after season. Last year he had his best shot w/ all his recruits. An all conf center, two all conf freshman guards, but his inability to recruit around that killed him becasue there was no bench. I predicted preseason, NIT, for this team. Thought they'd win 23 games (including tourneys). But I think Broy's onto something here, there is something underlying that is killing this team's performance. My guess, hunch a better word, is RM's relationships with players, which is harsh to say the least and self admitted by him, is not going over real well. We have some very discouraged kids playing right now. Confused, scared, pressured, you pick the word. No one is going to play well with those attitudes. Now RM seems to be saying "tough, that's the way I am, so get over it". I'm not sure these guys are getting over it.

[cheeseman]

The Indians ain't running the tribe here. Especially when the Chief has been in and won a lot more impressive battles than they have. There angst over RM is similar to that of employess when a new manager shows up and wants to change the system, procedures, and culture of an organization. Most people are opposed to change as it means more work; learning new ways, repetition to get it right, etc. I'd be disappointed in RM if he gave in to the whims of players who've not experienced an iota of the success RM has. My criticism of RM so far is the public bashing of players. He knew the hand he was dealt before he took the job. Remember he said he viewed a lot of tapes from last year. So, the lack of talent should not be an excuse for the team's poor play to date. They are what they are. But increasing the pressures on them via the media to my way of thinking is not going to get them to perform better or learn quicker. Probably will have just the opposite effect on them, ie more anxiety, more doubts, less confidence. It's a coach's job to constructively criticize a player, but it's best done behind closed doors. At the least, the only comment RM should make about his players is en masse, ie "We just don't have the depth of talent at this time to compete at a high level." It's true, and objective knowledgeable fans know it's true. The players know it as well. There's no good reason to single individuals out in the public arena.

Ok enough of this bashing issue - RM simply answers a question that is asked - it is not like he comes on and says so and so is lousy. He always talks in specifics and explains what it is he wants. I am sorry but the group who is here now is not the group who is going to take us anywhere in the future - if they were we would be there and Brad would still be here. This is not an attack on the kids just a statement of fact. These kids play in the public eye and so they need to understand that their play will be talked about in the public. Nobody complained when Brad would talk about how JJ just won't put out in practice - is that not public bashing given the definition some have used to describe what RM is doing? He was honest when he took the job regarding his overall evaluation of the talent here and is simply following the plan he said he would put into place.