Possible transfers

[Billiken_Lady]

Strong rumors are that Daniel Deane and Nemanja Calasan are transferring from Utah? Both players would do well at SLU in Coach Majerus system.

[Billikenbooster]

Would they have to sit a year since they were 'cut' by their D1 team of origin?

mhg

[davidlee]

Deane would have to sit out 1 year but I think Calasan should be eligible right away since he is a JC player.

See No. 2

http://jucojunction.rivals.com/viewrank.asp?ra_key=1690

[Abe Froman]

so a guy who couldn't cut it academically at Utah is going to come to SLU? Not a big fan of that move....

[GW]

Deane graduated from a catholic high school with honors and a 3.75 GPA, so it seems he has the potential to be a fine student. We don't know the story of why he was having academic problems at Utah, but if he is the "Clooney look alike" we have been speculating on it may explain why Majerus would be spending 3 days with him to sort out those issues.

This sounds like the scenario from the Majerus negotiations where Majerus wanted the flexibility to be able to bring in a kid who had academic issues, if Majerus felt he could turn things around if given a second chance.

[VTIME]

Deane was a top 100 player out of high school. Big rugged kid who can stroke it from outside. He's WORTH the risk and I would think Majerus knows what he's doing. I dont think anyone can really question any move he makes.

[billiken_roy]

i would think he would have trouble transferring in with the ncaa transfer rules about academics where the transferee has to have enough credits in an existing major to be on pace to graduate with his/her class. if this guy flunked out of utah, how in the world is he on pace to be a sophomore? i would love a player with his dimensions and potential become a billiken, but just not seeing how this is possible unless the academic thing isnt exactly true.

[brianstl]

From what I understand his problems all stemmed from not showing up for class. He has no problem handling the work, he just needs to show up for class.

[davidnark]

I don't think he flunked out of school. I think he failed to meet the coach's standards in regard to an academic commitment (i.e. he didn't go to class).

[MusicCityBilliken]

I am just wondering how much this is the new coach Boylan just not hitting off with Deane. He may want to just clean house and start fresh.

The one thing that concerns me is his game last season. Deane seems to have a boatload of talent but was noted to under perform, even for a freshman. Then again, it looked like the whole Utah team under performed last season. Since this was Utah's second year of pathetic perfomances of what was once brillant successes, who knows what what was going on between the team and the coach. Well, if Deane is almost like a son to Rick, and he can get through to him, what the heck, (how often does SLU have a top 50 player drop in its lap) lets give it a go if he does not have any academic short comings. Rick strikes me as the kind of coach that will be in the dorm at 7am, yelling at a player to get your 'you know what' into class. Being here for 3 days, he may also be registering for summer school to possibly make up what he missed which being a freshman should not be difficult. Also, as a transfer, he will have to sit a year but will have 3 years of eligibility.

It would be nice if we could get some perspective from some Ute follower.

[cheeseman]

In order to be a sophomore you have to have 24 hours. If he managed to pass his first semester and even got a couple of passing classes in second semester, he could easily make up the 6-8 hours he is missing this summer. Not a big fan of him having to sit a year but if he is that good then waiting won't be the end of the world. It also takes a little pressure off of the 6 schollies for the 2008 class. Can someone explain why the other guy does not have to sit a year - is it because he never enrolled?

[billiken_roy]

but if he doesnt have the passed credits, isnt the rule he cant transfer to an existing d-1 school? wouldnt he have to go to a juco first or something? what am i missing?

[brianstl]

I believe he still had passing grades even with his attendance problems and he will be able to transfer.

[Adman]

If Deane did not flunk out of school and had passing grades, but the coach decided to deny him his scholarship (for not living up to the Coach's expectations), why would Deane have to sit out a year?

I'm not an expert at NCAA eligibility matters. But this situation seems odd.

Deane did not choose to leave the school. He did not ask for a release. Coach made a decision to sever ties and scholly.

Are there hard/fast NCAA rules on this specific situation? Or can Deane ask for hearing to have the "year sit-out" rule waived?

Anyone know with certainty how these situations are handled?

[Billiken Law]

>

>If Deane did not flunk out of school and had passing grades,

>but the coach decided to deny him his scholarship (for not

>living up to the Coach's expectations), why would Deane have

>to sit out a year?

>

>I'm not an expert at NCAA eligibility matters. But this

>situation seems odd.

>

>Deane did not choose to leave the school. He did not ask

>for a release. Coach made a decision to sever ties and

>scholly.

>

>Are there hard/fast NCAA rules on this specific situation?

>Or can Deane ask for hearing to have the "year sit-out" rule

>waived?

>

>Anyone know with certainty how these situations are handled?

scholarships are not 4 years guaranteed but rather 1 year renewable. While the NCAA sets mandatory minimums a student-athlete must meet in order to remain eligible schools are free to set higher minimums, which it sounds like Utah did. For example, Marquette had a kid who was eligible under NCAA guidelines for academics but not Marquette guidelines, so he was ruled ineligible by the school. The NCAA minimum GPA is 1.8, some schools go with 2.0, some even higher, they just cannot go lower.

Also, if a school chooses not to renew a scholarship the player is allowed an appeal with the school with the onus on the school to justify why the scholarship is not being renewed - it is a high burden for the school to meet. The NCAA allows for reduction and cancellation of financial aid during the period of the reward for reasons such as ineligibility, fraudulent misprerentation or misconduct, even if the penalty is greater than that a regular student would receive.

As for sitting out, there is no way around that rule.

[jjray]

>>As for sitting out, there is no way around that rule.<<

If the kid was eligible per NCAA but did not meet the higher minimum set by Utah (assuming that's the case), the school should do the right thing and release the kid. It's punishment enough IMHO that they revoked the kid's scholarship.

[Billiken Law]

by not renewing the scholarship they have basically released given the kid a blanket. However, even with a release they still have serve a year in residence under NCAA regulations or go to a JUCO, play, then be immediately eligible upon transferring to a D-1 institution (which is what Tom Frericks did when he left UAB). However, that does burn a year of eligiblity.

[VTIME]

If you know a specific school will take you, couldnt you just redshirt at the JUCO?

[jjray]

Yeah, it looks like there is no way around the 1 year rule once a player has attended a 4 year school:

http://www.ncaa.org/library/general/transf...nsfer_guide.pdf

(see page 13)

[brianstl]

It is futher evidence that the kids rarely come first with the NCAA or most coaches. Could you imagine the uproar if a coach had to sit out a year after jumping schools or getting fired (which is basically what happened to Deane).

[bauman]

Roy, come on, let's say it all together now------------------------------BARTON COMMUNITY COLLEGE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

If Ricky could get 24 hours of credit in a summer session think how many Deane could get.

[Adman]

BillikenLaw,

Thanks for the explanations. Since your username is Law and I presume you're a lawyer, I'll ask another question:

If the player met the school's academic requirement (and presumably met the performance standard of his letter of intent,) isn't a "sit out" rule unconstitutional under restraint of free trade?

There is a sense of unfair play happening here.

For example:

- my son is recruited by coach of university X, signs letter of intent, plays for University X (attends games, practices, etc)

- my son maintains academic standards established by University X and is progressing towards degree

- new coach comes in who didn't recruit my son

- scholarship not renewed because new coach doesn't like that I didn't go to class

- now my son has to sit out a year if he wants to continue as a student athlete by transfering to University Y

Now before anyone gets riled up, thinking that I'm defending not going to class, I'm not. I'd kick my son's ***. If he went to class, wouldn't be in this situation.

But as I read it, the student has maintained his end of the LOI contract. By requiring him to sit out a year, the NCAA is restraining his ability to best continue to progress (potentially to a professional career.) because new coach wants to hold him to higher, non-contractual standard.

If the new coach is simply trying to make a statement and put his own stamp on things, that is his prerogative. But a student/athlete who fulfilled his contractural obligation should not have to "pay for it" by sitting out, even if the scholarships are not automatically "4-year" and must be renewed yearly.

I understand the NCAA member organizations agree to abide by these regulations. Also understand that these rules are put in place to avoid students transfering willy nilly. But the student/athlete didn't initiate this move, University X did.

Taken to a bit of the extreme...What if new coach didn't like the color of his hair? What if he didn't like the way he played? Decided to give him his release and not renew his scholly? Is it fair that he'd have to sit out a year to continue being a student/athlete? Of course not. I argue that this situation is no different -- if the student/athlete held up his end of the LOI contract. The university should either honor his scholly or NCAA should waive sit out.

I've got to believe that the University Y has an ability to request waiver of the sit out rule in certain situations...particularly after University X has de facto given him his NCAA release.

Your thoughts?

Sorry for this long-winded post from a non-lawyer!

[Billiken Law]

>If you know a specific school will take you, couldnt you

>just redshirt at the JUCO?

the reason to go to a JUCO would be to not sit out a year. Some guys don't want to do that.

[cheeseman]

This has happened before - a coach comes in and says you don't fit into my plans so you need to transfer some place else. Oh and by the way, you will need to sit a year or go Jucco - sorry but it is all about me and not you.