slu72 Posted March 15, 2007 Share Posted March 15, 2007 A good golfing buddy of mine is from Philly and knows both Martelli and Dunphy. Martelli let it be known sometime ago, he wasn't leaving Philadelphia. In fact, I think after his great run a couple of years ago, he was approached and nipped it in the bud. According to my friend he's not real money or even fame motivated. Loves Philly and is content with spending the rest of his coaching days at St. Joes. I think UB would be like this with SLU, although I don't know this for sure. Now if he could just have the same success as St. Joe's I'd never knock the guy again. But until that day arrives, he's fair game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billikan Posted March 15, 2007 Share Posted March 15, 2007 You said that you do not see the program moving in the desired direction after "6 years". How is that you claim that you are not holding Brad responsible for 6 years? I know that virtually all of the Big 10 schools and many other schools aroung the country have special programs for athletes, whether they be PE or other majors. The grading in "communications" classes is extremely subjective as well. I have relatives that went to MU who said the players often just skipped classes. My daughter who went to Indiana said that Knight insisted that the players go to class but other coaches, particularly the football coach were not nearly as tough. Any school that has a PE program has a leg up on SLU because a lot of athletes gravitate to those courses, even if it not their major. Also, many courses do not transfer to SLU from JUCOs or other schools if we do not have a similar major, and PE courses do not transfer so that makes the possible pool of JUCO or transfer players smaller. We will never be the same as Stanford or Duke in that they can often take their pick of highly qualified academic high achievers who are also blue chip players. But SLU is dead serious about the players graduating. Did you see the list of the percentages for the teams that are playing in the NCAA tournament? The numbers were awful. Many were from zero to 10 percent and a great number were in the teens, including some big name academic schools. In some ways I would hope this is a recruiting plus for the parents of kids who we are recruitng because they will know that SLU is a place where their son will get a real degree. For players who intend to leave early or intend to play pro ball regardless of what happens that may not be a factor but for the huge % of other players, if I was a parent, that would be a big positive. The quality of the A10 has been debated ad nauseum on this board. When I watch the schools play I believe there are a number of good players in the league and it is no cakewalk to play on the road against any team. I believe that the top tier teams in the league including Xavier, Umass, GW, Rhode Island, St Josephs, the Bills and even Dayton could compete very well in the MVC--the darling of the media. The fact that in the NIT, Mo. State lost at home last night to a team that lost to a bad team in the first game of its conference tournament would suggest the MVC are not the worldbeaters that the media suggests they are. I went to the RPI list and checked on the number of teams who had a strength of schedule equal or better than ours that won 20 games and the number by my count is 45. A bunch of teams that won 20 had strength of schedule numbers over 200 and some over 250 to 300. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted March 15, 2007 Share Posted March 15, 2007 "You still haven't listed the prestigious academic schools with "cake" majors." off the top of my head, how about that famous sociology major at duke? it has served coach k well hasnt it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slufanskip Posted March 15, 2007 Share Posted March 15, 2007 Sorry, but Martelli's record at St. Joe's isn't that great. Official Billikens.com sponsor of H Waldman Official Sponser of the Stemmler and Ahearn could and would have helped club. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
courtside Posted March 15, 2007 Share Posted March 15, 2007 Brad has been recruiting for 6 years. You, not I broughtup repeatedly about recruits leaving, ...Brad was a part of recruiting and getting kids to come to SLU for 6 years. I gave several of many many more examples of schools with similar and some tougher academics than SLU who win in men's basketball at a much higher rate than SLU. That list is not two teams long. BTW, SLU has a communications major too. The A10 the past two years has not been better than C-USA at the time SLU was in it. It hopefully will change, however for purposes in evaluating Brad and the program, it must be pointed out that the league the past two years has been less challenging to produce wins than previously. The NCAA does not count D-2 wins why should I? ...which would make that list more than 50. Let's take your 45, the point remains the same. Also, a team can schedule a 190 RPI team or 320 RPI team and the difference doesn't interest me much. SLU defeated two NCAA teams all season, and one was an automatic qualifier. A lot of highly successful private schools graduate players and win in hoops at a higher rate than SLU. Judging a team based on how they play in their first round NIT game is ludicrous. You said SLU will never be a place with high academic acievers and blue chip players. Why not? Why do you think that will always be the case? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
courtside Posted March 15, 2007 Share Posted March 15, 2007 No easier than Communications major at SLU. Plus those kids also have to take core requirements at Duke. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted March 15, 2007 Share Posted March 15, 2007 yeah, jason williams graduated in less than 3 years while playing basketball every summer on the us world team. uhhh huhhhh. which of our recent basketball graduates have been communications majors? i dont remember the last basketball player at slu that was a communications major. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3star_recruit Posted March 15, 2007 Share Posted March 15, 2007 222-125 going into this year, 4 time A-10 coach of the year, National Coach of the Year, 17 postseason wins, a Sweet 16 and an Elite 8 isn't that great? You're a tough man to please. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
courtside Posted March 15, 2007 Share Posted March 15, 2007 >yeah, jason williams graduated in less than 3 years while >playing basketball every summer on the us world team. uhhh >huhhhh. > >which of our recent basketball graduates have been >communications majors? i dont remember the last basketball >player at slu that was a communications major. Take it up with Billikan who suggested Communications classes had things graded more subjectively. I merely offered that SLU had that as a major. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moytoy12 Posted March 15, 2007 Share Posted March 15, 2007 "I merely offered that SLU had that as a major." That statement is disingenuous. You implied that SLU also had an easy major, namely, Communications. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billikan Posted March 15, 2007 Share Posted March 15, 2007 You conveniently ignored the PE programs at dozens of schools and so you just say there are 2! What I said was that we will never be in a position to "take our pick" of such players not that we could not successfully recruit them. I never said that SLU would not be a place for them. You have a disturbing habit of mistating my position. I agree 100% with the idea that a teams last game is not an indication of how good a team has been for the year. But a lot of the naysayers on this board keep talking about the last Billiken game as if it were representative of the entire season. If you are not Bernie, can you tell me if you are in the media in St. Louis? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
courtside Posted March 16, 2007 Share Posted March 16, 2007 >"I merely offered that SLU had that as a major." > >That statement is disingenuous. You implied that SLU also >had an easy major, namely, Communications. No Billikan implied it was an easy major. I said to Roy that Duke's Sociology major was not easier than SLU's communications major. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moytoy12 Posted March 16, 2007 Share Posted March 16, 2007 "I agree 100% with the idea that a teams last game is not an indication of how good a team has been for the year. But a lot of the naysayers on this board keep talking about the last Billiken game as if it were representative of the entire season." In a sense it was considering it was a game of consequence in which we failed to show up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted March 16, 2007 Share Posted March 16, 2007 i personally doubt it is easier. i dont know of any athletes or anyone graduating in 3 years at slu with communications degrees as williams and boozer and brand and duhon all did with their duke sociology majors. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slufanskip Posted March 16, 2007 Share Posted March 16, 2007 He had a great run in the Jameer Nelson years. Take those 2 or 3 years away and he hasn't been that great. He also hasn't done much since he left. I think he is a good coach, but I keep hearing how he is this great coach. He hasn't made St. Joe's a consistent top 50 program which seems to be the only acceptable result at SLU. Even with the Jameer Nelson years his winning percentge is .634. Good not great. 17 postseaon wins, but 11 of them are NIT wins. My point was to illustrate how hard it is to become a consistent top 50 team as a midmajor. Even someone almost everyone considers a very good coach cant get it done. Official Billikens.com sponsor of H Waldman Official Sponser of the Stemmler and Ahearn could and would have helped club. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billikan Posted March 16, 2007 Share Posted March 16, 2007 Respectfully, have you ever played a minute of anything resembling big time basketball? Those first two games were killers. It is extremely hard to come back on that 3rd day and our stars are sophomores. The first game was a track meet and the second was a pound it our emotional overtime game. We not only competed but we won those games. I have played three games in three days and it is a killer. Your legs start to go even if you are in great shape. It was obvious that we were dead in the third game and we made numerous mental errors because we were tired. We had beat this team earlier when we were fresh but they played a great trapping game and we fell flat. it is just like in the NBA when you see a lesser team (and I am not saying that GW is a lesser team) beats one of the top teams because they are playing "back to back" games. Even, the pros who have nothing to do in life but work out every day sometimes just get tired and do not play well. That is what happened to us but you want to judge the whole season on that one game. That is not fair to the team. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moytoy12 Posted March 16, 2007 Share Posted March 16, 2007 "That is what happened to us but you want to judge the whole season on that one game. That is not fair to the team." point me to my comment which judged the season by one game. You said it (the GW tourney game) was not representative of the season, i said it was in a sense. I am not judging the whole season by one game which happened to be the 3rd in 3 days. Nope, never played a minute of big time basketball, but i don't need to in order to understand what it means to be tired. I have played competitive sports, including 3 games in 2 days in Dallas, outside, in August. I understand what it means to be tired. If you paid attention during the GW game you will see that we brought the ball up the court in the same way each time after a made bucket or inbounds after a timeout. We had no answer to GW's inbounds plays. We did not use our timeouts wisely in the first half. Our boys played their hearts out and i commend them for that. I can excuse mistakes because of fatigue. Our coach failed to show up for GW and that is representative of some of our games this season. I know you can't handle a negative Why were we dead? we had no depth and our boys played 2 hard games. When you pull your head out of your ##### you can go back and look at the compliments i bestowed on Sodie and the boys. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slu72 Posted March 16, 2007 Share Posted March 16, 2007 C'mon, Skip, that's a ridiculous statement. If Dean Smith hadn't has all those greats at UNC, he would have been 200-800 instead of the opposite. Take away TL and KL and where would UB be the last two years? How about right below Duquense last year and Richmond this year. You're gonna knock Martelli for recruiting those two? We would kill for Martelli type years. And I venture to say, unless UB pulls off a miracle spring, we'll be looking up St. Joe's skirt again next year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lefty Posted March 16, 2007 Share Posted March 16, 2007 Who said SLU should be a consistent top 50 program? Probably some putz like GOPBilliken or such. Certainly not anyone of prominence with the wherewithal to navigate this mission. Correct? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slu72 Posted March 16, 2007 Share Posted March 16, 2007 Biondi supposedly uttered those famous words during the salad days of Spoonball. Wasn't hard to imagine after seasons like 93-95. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slufanskip Posted March 16, 2007 Share Posted March 16, 2007 I said he was a good coach. It isn't a ridiculous statement at least not as ridiculous as the comparison to Dean Smith. My point wasn't to knock Martelli ... as it was to show that having a consistent top 50 program as a mid major is tough. Martelli had top 50 status for a few years, actually much better than top 50, but he hasn't been able to sustain it, and didn't have it before the Nelson years. So many people seem to think he is this great coach .... and if he is that should reinforce how hard it is to reach and sustain a top 50 level. Official Billikens.com sponsor of H Waldman Official Sponser of the Stemmler and Ahearn could and would have helped club. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
courtside Posted March 16, 2007 Share Posted March 16, 2007 >You conveniently ignored the PE programs at dozens of >schools and so you just say there are 2! > >What I said was that we will never be in a position to "take >our pick" of such players not that we could not successfully >recruit them. I never said that SLU would not be a place for >them. You have a disturbing habit of mistating my position. > > > I named many schools that have similar or tougher academics standards than SLU...and could add to that list right now...those schools recruit well and coach well and win...and plenty do not have current or near future facilities that SLU will have shortly. That means they have been doing it well(recruiting, coaching, succeeding) with those academics. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VTIME Posted March 16, 2007 Share Posted March 16, 2007 >i personally doubt it is easier. i dont know of any >athletes or anyone graduating in 3 years at slu with >communications degrees as williams and boozer and brand and >duhon all did with their duke sociology majors. What happened to all the talk last spring and summer of Luke graduating in 3 years and forgoing his senior season. I thought it was crazy when it was said, but where is that guy now to eat his crow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheeseman Posted March 16, 2007 Share Posted March 16, 2007 Biondi said when Grawer was coach. I still remember Grawer wincing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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