So, what has happened?

[NashvilleBilliken]

Ok, I'm not sure if we can do this, but let's try to have a discussion about something other than BS (I swear, if I have to read for the 20th time in a week how Nark was opposed to Brad's signing and let people know from the beginning, I'm gonna shoot myself).

What has happened to this team? We were 12-3 coming into conference and have beaten teams head and shoulders better Duq, sbu, temple, and fordham. What has happened? If you're gonna say it's all Brad's fault, please explain why. He was able to coach us to our best non-conference start in a long time. So, I think a valid explanation isn't asking for too much.

[SLUDrew]

to me, those are the two biggest issues, but there are many

[willie]

I'm afraid some of the non-conference wins were lucky. We could have lost 3 or 4 of those games. Bottom line is that were just not that good. Margin of error is very small. Can we play better defense and win some games. Sure,but lets face it we don't have enough talent{depth}to win our tourney. Can we beat anybody in the A-10? Yes. Can we lose to aytbody in the A-10? Yes. I'm beating a dead horse but our lack of a 4 is killing us.

[Clock_Tower]

Agree 100%

[slu72]

No bench...nada....zippo....to back up 4 legit D1 players. So, it's recruiting.

[GOSLU68]

Even Kramer Soderberg shoots from 5-8 feet behind the 3 point line and

he is a high school junior> Right? I yelled for our players at the last home game to get up on a proven 3 point shooter and the guy behind me says-they are playing zone-you don't break the zone-you just live with 60% sharp shooting from the oppostion? You just assume they will miss becaquse they used to miss at St. Margaret of Scotland in5th grade? okay that is our zone.

Polk's speed is nullified by how short he is if he plays back five feet the angle is worse.

How many steals do we have-did we recruit anyone with the vision and forehought to anticipate a pass?

If Coffey was the grat walk on defender for 11 minutes the game before

why didn't he get in this game at leat sometime-reverse true for DM our announcers said that was the first kick out pass for a fast break all season and it was by DM-I'll bet he learned before he enrolled at SLU

Whatever is wrong with JJ legs he can no longer jump or rebound-BH can block shots and at least the other team would have to adjust if you star twin towers at the beginning of the game. BH best featur is shot blockin and goal defense. He can not start to hit perimeter 3 pointers. His rebounding is a little weak if smaller guys hack him when he brings it down. Have him pass immediately. Practisae tat, this year.If BH has a conditioning issue he will only be more tired if he practices too hard to get playing time. Slowly build him up but get him out of the dog house. He is a Giraffe not an antelope or cheetah.

[courtside]

Nashville,

Houston, Ole Miss, Pacific, Loyola have not turned out to be very good teams,...or even near as good as hoped. It didn't surprie me that they aren't. SLU won a bunch of close games against mediocre teams. The way SLU plays there isn't a lot of margin for error in games. Now they are losing some of those games, especially on the road. ....a lot easier to win those at home.

SLU also relies so heavily on its defense to win, that if it has an even mediocre defensive day, it has trouble overcoming that. You will not lock down every night. Gotta find more ways to win games. Also, SLU does it with half court defense...they do not force enough turnovers and pressure full court or half court etc...which puts even more pressure on that defense. SLU itself struggles with opponents pressure defense, and lacks ball handlers etc...so there you lose that battle often.

TL has improved his shooting dramatically...but Lisch injured or not, has noty....so where else are you getting 3's....3's made...and 3's attempted. TL has excellent percentage, but not a lot of attempts. Not enough shooters.

IV is not in great shape, slow, etc...crafty, good, etc...but need an athletic forward to help free up space, to help with rebounds...put backs stamina etc...

SLU had very extremely terrific percentages across the board vs Xavier...and still it was decently close.

IMO, SLU needs to get more athletic acros the board, to help with pressure on offense and defense. shooters, but shooters who can create their own shot of of dribble and create space. Need back up guards who can spell starters and add minutes here and there. It is EXTREMELY valuable to play 7-10 minues or even less to help out KL, IV, TL. Guys who are capable reserve players.

I think SLU is good enough to prepare to win against a good solid team on a given night. But to win consistently against very good teams, they aren't good enough...with starting 5 and not just bench.

I can say an athletic forward, maybe two, back up shooting guard, two point guards, back up wing.

People keep trying to say oh SLU is fine at point and I scratch my head. The teams who win in NCAA have good guards who he see floor, create for self and others and shoot.

Better athletes, point guards, a forward, and several back up players at different positions.

Now losing all of these conference games...well...it is tough to win on road in any conference...but losing at St.Bonnies and Duquesne at home...tough to explain those...kind of games wehere you bench starters for poor play and reserves come in and win one for ya...but SLU doesn't have any. And those should be earlier in season losses....not now.

SLU can get on a run , just needs some confidence, but when 1 or 2 star players are not playing well, nobody else good enough to step up. The problem now is SLU can finish still in top few of league...I believe it can...but not likely to win it...and that leaves only conference tourney which they can win...however short bench with games several days in a row??? League is bad enough this year for SLU to compete...not likely..but can happen.

Two down years for the league...The talented Sopsh will be juniors already next year with no IV...jucos are crap shoot at best...and sure AK and DM will play a lot more...but if they aren't as good as KL, TL, and it tok those two more than half a season to adjust to college game...does anybody think DM and AK will be more than role players next year? I do not see how anyone could see this teamm and think they will be much better next year?

Small margin for error..so some good moments, some bad, some in middle all over again.

[billiken_roy]

i think there are 3 things that have (or have not) happened that i know i didnt expect.

3. ian vouyoukas has not improved. imo he has regressed. he is no where near as tough. remember last year when the blue crew would count his dunks? i dont even know when he has dunked last. and his rebounding is just soft.

2. kevin lisch has been hurt. we havent seen the kevin lisch we all counted on since he was body slammed in carbondale. slice it how you want, but without our honeybadger, our toughness and dont quit is gone.

1. justin johnson or obi ikeakor did not step up and become the power forward. it would have been nice to have had the power forward position manned by someone able to match up to the opposition size wise. no argument that luke meyer has been splendid, but think how nice it would have been to have had luke on the wing, and having polk come off the bench. the depth answer lies with the fact that obi ikeakor didnt have the guts to get his body in shape in over 18 months and justin johnson suffered that unplanned shoulder separation which has effectively set him back to ineffective.

[slu72 fan]

I agree with many of the comments about our recent lack of success.

Now that everyone is in conference play it is very obvious that it is really difficult to win on the road. Take a look at the ESPN scrolling scores and see how many games are won by the home team. My guess would be well over 75%. Add to that, the loss or diminished production from Kevin's injuries and it's not too hard to see why we're having problems.

[NashvilleBilliken]

I pretty much agree with much of what was said on this thread.

1) We have gotten lucky. But, ya know, every team gets lucky. It's part of the business. Even the elite teams get lucky a couple of times a season. I don't think we've gotten luckier than other teams, but it has probably padded our record.

2) No depth. Ok, I'm gonna say it...our recruiting lately has sucked. As we get deeper into the season, it will begin to show more and more. I think Brad may be a victim of his own standards. He has gone after the players he really wants. They have chosen to go to more established programs. Then he's screwed. I think offering the same number of kids as you have scholarships was dumb. We aren't THAT kind of program. It appears he has gotten rid of that rule with the 20 or so scholarship offers our there. Brad's shown the ability to get high major players and I think that may have given him a false sense of security.

3) Lack of passion. It just doesn't seem to be there anymore for our guys. There was a play where we came out of the time out real energized. They fed the ball to JJ in the post and he had a real aggressive move. He missed the bucket, and all the energy left. But I thought THAT was the intesity and hustle we need ALL the time. I don't know why they can't maintain it. It has never been a problem with this coach before. I don't know why it is now.

[Sheltiedave]

Nashville, you mix all that together, and then throw in the fact we do not have a leader on the court. You want the senior leadership to rise and grab hold of the game, and we look to - JJ, Ian or Wendell? It isn't happening.

Kevin is the only blood and guts guy we have. A real assassin. Tommie is picking it up somewhat, but he is a scoring assassin, not a defensive stopper. Everyone else is outmatched.

[ACE]

Nashville, congratulations for admitting your point #2. Maybe some day Roy will.

[billiken_roy]

ace is it recruiting or player development that made obi ikeakor not lose 30 lbs and get in the weight room? is it recruiting that kept ian from getting serious for two years? is it recruiting that kept justin johnson from ever getting serious in four years?

many would look at dixon now as a horrible move. i say at the time he was brought in, it was a no lose. late summer, a good athlete but apparently a bad student and a very raw basketball player. roll the dice if he works out it is a genius move. he washes out we lost 3 months with him.

look, i am not confusing soderberg with calipari, he has recruiting issues. but to be honest, i think he has done just as good recruiting as romar did and romar is about as good of a recruiter as there is in the country.

[Clock_Tower]

Agree with your assessment in general but not sure injury to JJ is what caused him to be useless this year. While it did not help, I truly think that he been 100% healthy, he would have started off well against lesser competition (exhibition games), got the fans excited but then return to form by regressing during the non-conference schedule and then becoming a non-factor when the conference began.

No spin (not inferring that you are spinning) can suggest that JJ is anything but a total bust. BH is and will remain the same next year. Even good coaches experience a total bust every so often. Brad, seeing him every day, has known this for years. This is what has made Brad's lack of recruiting a 4 so frustrating.

Not only did OI not step up but HD (grades) apparently was a long shot as well. Immediate help is what was/is needed. Waiting on freshmen to develop and contribute (especially when one is injured, overweight and whose dedication to recovery is questionable)is either questionable judgment or even worse recruiting than I give him credit for. Knowing the importance of depth and filling this hole at the 4 position, how could Brad not land a JUCO or transfer? Brad knew JJ would be of no help. Fine, we missed on Stemler. I would have been happy with an Eric Jones or Ross Varner! Remember, this goes back to Vashun Newborne enrolling and being more of a 3 than the 4 they had hoped for.

[moytoy12]

"i think he has done just as good recruiting as romar did and romar is about as good of a recruiter as there is in the country."

Geez Roy, don't conflate a whole host of issues in one statement.

I can accept Romar was a helluva a recruiter, can you also accept that maybe he wasn't the best recruiter to have at SLU?

Finally, UB also plays a role in player development too, right?

[billiken_roy]

i agree completely.

you all are misjudging my statements about soderberg as complete defense and cheerleading on his part. i recognize he isnt john wooden. but i think there are extenuating circumstances that have held him, romar, spoon and grawer back. fix that first then if there is not recipricating results, make the coaching move. but to make that move without fixing the infrastructure will not result in any more success. i am tired of riding the roller coaster and believe a coaching change is inconsequential. in fact, i believe a coach change at this time will do more harm short term than help. (you can kiss the junior class goodbye.)

[moytoy12]

You are right, i'm probably the worst at misjudging your statements and i apologize (it's a little hard on the internets though).

I guess where we part ways is that Romar and Spoon had success under (and i'm guessing here) similar circumstances and UB has not. For whatever reason, whether it was luck in getting hughes or a broken leg for K. Mart (by the way, is there a more overpaid athlete then K. Mart??), Spoon and Romar got to the dance in less than 5 years. Right now, it doesn't look like UB will be able to do that.

[billiken_roy]

moytoy, you are one of my favorite posters. you sure make me think. we need to have beers some time. we could argue for hours. i would bet a night of beers with you, me, skip and kshoe would be a debate for the ages!

[moytoy12]

I appreciate that Roy. Next time i'm in St. Louis, we'll definitely have to grab some beers.

[ACE]

Roy, specifically let's talk about recruiting last year. I was sounding the warning bell, when a lot of people were saying we had enough talent and everything would work out.

Following the Tommie and Kevin signings, Brad didn't even need to hit it big. We're not asking for Mickey D All-Americans. We were just looking for a couple of nice role players who could contribute something this year. Spoon wasn't always the greatest recruiter, but he had a class of Turner, Harris Robinson, and Campbell. No, All-Americans in that group, but some useful players who immediately improved the team's depth. We needed a class like that last year. We didn't get one useful player for this year. We couldn't even help offset the loss of Drejaj, which is not exactly like trying to replace Marque or Justin Love.