Recruiting - 2019

[Old guy]

Well almaman, let's just say that Jim Crews and Travis Ford are very different fellows in every conceivable way.

[TFord and TRavs]

26 minutes ago, almaman said:

So Pistol does this mean if one of these 29 decides to come here he calls TF tells him, we sign and other 28 offers go away? Being simple but real. Seems like in most of the past it would of been pointless to pursue only top 150's, maybe only thing different is TF size balls to ask the best?

You get 2 or more top 150 players every year, you'll be top 50 by default 

[STL Hoops Insider]

19 hours ago, billiken_roy said:

The players you were suggesting we recruit were "crumbs".   Some weren't even starters on their high school teams and no other D1 schools were offering.   Sorry ace is telling it like it was

We still offer guys who aren't starters on high school teams I,e, Mario McKinney.  There is a kid from St. Louis who was redshirting 3 years ago at UMSL who signed to play with a BIG XII conference this fall. If someone told you three years ago that he was a power conference everyone here would've laughed. Everyone missed on him. The kid he was referring to that was on the bench that I said should get an offer was Kenny Harris when he was at Vashon.

 

 

[DeSmetBilliken]

17 hours ago, STL Hoops Insider said:

Not true. I was always very specific about whether I said take a look at and which kids I said offer. I called Harrellson and McLemore before anybody.

I remember you touting McLemore, and to a lesser degree Harrellson, so I'll give you some credit for those. Here's where I think you rubbed a few people (myself included) the wrong way. On numerous occasions, I recall you naming local players who, at face value, weren't anything special at the high school level, and I'm not talking about freshmen or sophomores; I'm talking about juniors or seniors. Nevertheless, you'd suggest that SLU should "give him a chance." Even if SLU wasn't making NCAA tournaments at the time, I don't think that building a program on taking flyers on players that otherwise were not considered to be Division 1 level talent was the way to compete in the Atlantic 10.

I understand that at the time, SLU was the only D-1 school in the STL metropolitan area, but it doesn't mean that we needed to be in the business of handing out scholarships as borderline charity. I can't speak for others, but that's how I interpreted your perception of SLU.

 

[RiseAndGrind]

Leon Powell and Sanjay watts should be sufficient to discredit STLHI

[STL Hoops Insider]

9 minutes ago, DeSmetBilliken said:

I remember you touting McLemore, and to a lesser degree Harrellson, so I'll give you some credit for those. Here's where I think you rubbed a few people (myself included) the wrong way. On numerous occasions, I recall you naming local players who, at face value, weren't anything special at the high school level, and I'm not talking about freshmen or sophomores; I'm talking about juniors or seniors. Nevertheless, you'd suggest that SLU should "give him a chance." Even if SLU wasn't making NCAA tournaments at the time, I don't think that building a program on taking flyers on players that otherwise were not considered to be Division 1 level talent was the way to compete in the Atlantic 10.

I understand that at the time, SLU was the only D-1 school in the STL metropolitan area, but it doesn't mean that we needed to be in the business of handing out scholarships as borderline charity. I can't speak for others, but that's how I interpreted your perception of SLU.

 

The terminology I think is important. Recruiting and offering are different things. We should be recruiting the top local kids, but only offer the ones we are reasonably sure can help us.

[STL Hoops Insider]

3 minutes ago, RiseAndGrind said:

Leon Powell and Sanjay watts should be sufficient to discredit STLHI

Leon Powell would've contributed at SLU. I never said offer Watts, because he never quite developed the guard skills for his 6'3 frame. He was a dominant DII player however leading UCM to the Final Four.

[DeSmetBilliken]

1 hour ago, STL Hoops Insider said:

The terminology I think is important. Recruiting and offering are different things. We should be recruiting the top local kids, but only offer the ones we are reasonably sure can help us.

That's a fair point. When you used to suggest that some players should be given a chance by SLU, I always read that to mean that SLU should be offering those kids. If by such a statement you were only suggesting that "a chance" meant that SLU should watch a few more of his games, and if the kid didn't impress enough to merit an offer, move on, then maybe there was a misunderstanding. My guess is that I'm not the only person here who thought that you were advocating for SLU to offer every kid you mentioned that ended up playing D-2 or D-3.

[STL Hoops Insider]

48 minutes ago, DeSmetBilliken said:

That's a fair point. When you used to suggest that some players should be given a chance by SLU, I always read that to mean that SLU should be offering those kids. If by such a statement you were only suggesting that "a chance" meant that SLU should watch a few more of his games, and if the kid didn't impress enough to merit an offer, move on, then maybe there was a misunderstanding. My guess is that I'm not the only person here who thought that you were advocating for SLU to offer every kid you mentioned that ended up playing D-2 or D-3.

That would explain all those years of backlash, but people could've just asked what I meant. Brad recruited locally and in his last yr won 20 games with 4 local guys. RM started off recruiting locally and then got away from it, but I think to build consistent winners in a non-power conference you have to have a pipeline from somewhere.  I always thought recruiting locally and Chicago would be enough but looks like Ford is recruiting locally and then placing an emphasis on NY and FLA. That's fine too. He got Smart from Texas and coached in Oklahoma so I wouldn't be shocked to see him tapping that market

[cheeseman]

2 hours ago, STL Hoops Insider said:

That would explain all those years of backlash, but people could've just asked what I meant. Brad recruited locally and in his last yr won 20 games with 4 local guys. RM started off recruiting locally and then got away from it, but I think to build consistent winners in a non-power conference you have to have a pipeline from somewhere.  I always thought recruiting locally and Chicago would be enough but looks like Ford is recruiting locally and then placing an emphasis on NY and FLA. That's fine too. He got Smart from Texas and coached in Oklahoma so I wouldn't be shocked to see him tapping that market

I guess one could also say you could have sensed that there was confusion on some people's part given the backlash - your word - that you were receiving.  Honestly, while I now see how you are making this fine distinction you do have to admit that a definition on your part might have helped given that only you knew what you meant.  I would also point out that Smart going to OSU is lot easier to see happening then coming to a SLU.  Texas and OK are basically in the same area and there has always been much crossover in players.  Pinkel found a way to make this work for Missouri in football but he decided to  move on when the school joined the SEC.  I think he felt that once the Big 12 connection was lost then he could not recruit it for the SEC.

[STL Hoops Insider]

If there is no Texas link out there i understand.  I expected Macon to recruit NY and FLA, and Bailey to recruit Chicago and Philadelphia. I was hoping Ford might handle the South and Tate locally. I don't expect land West coast guys.

[STL Hoops Insider]

6 hours ago, DeSmetBilliken said:

That's a fair point. When you used to suggest that some players should be given a chance by SLU, I always read that to mean that SLU should be offering those kids. If by such a statement you were only suggesting that "a chance" meant that SLU should watch a few more of his games, and if the kid didn't impress enough to merit an offer, move on, then maybe there was a misunderstanding. My guess is that I'm not the only person here who thought that you were advocating for SLU to offer every kid you mentioned that ended up playing D-2 or D-3.

Also I think it was a little extreme for people to use Harrellson's offer list and Wellston's small school competition as reasons why they weren't good enough for SLU offers and then both guys end up in the NBA.

[cheeseman]

12 hours ago, STL Hoops Insider said:

If there is no Texas link out there i understand.  I expected Macon to recruit NY and FLA, and Bailey to recruit Chicago and Philadelphia. I was hoping Ford might handle the South and Tate locally. I don't expect land West coast guys.

This makes sense

 

[cheeseman]

Ben M was someone RM was crazy about - he wanted him bad.  I know for a fact - I heard him say this - that once he looked at the kid's transcript he said there is no way he would qualify per NCAA requirements so he moved on.  He was shocked that KU finagled him in - he said that only a program like that or Duke or NC could get away with that so that was Ben M problems not that he played small school competition.  Harrellson's situation has been well documented.  Brad told him not to sign in the fall because he was interested but wanted to wait until the spring.  Harrellson did not wait - he signed with Western IL.  Then he kind of blew up his senior year and he wanted out but the coach would not do so.  He went to a Jucco across the river and Brad thought he had him locked up.  The kid told him he was going to sign on that Monday but that he was going to KY just for a good time so not to worry.  Well he must have had a heck of a time at least from the pix that were posted because he signed with KY not us.  Brad was wrong to not lock him up in the Fall given that Brad had all these extra schollies - but he often dallied to long on kids and lost the edge so that one was all on him.

[kshoe]

11 hours ago, STL Hoops Insider said:

Also I think it was a little extreme for people to use Harrellson's offer list and Wellston's small school competition as reasons why they weren't good enough for SLU offers and then both guys end up in the NBA.

You've got some major revisionist history going on regarding mcclemore. He was a top 25 national player by his sophomore year and everybody knew he could play. Academics were always the issue as evidenced by him having to sit out a year at Kansas.

[STL Hoops Insider]

30 minutes ago, kshoe said:

You've got some major revisionist history going on regarding mcclemore. He was a top 25 national player by his sophomore year and everybody knew he could play. Academics were always the issue as evidenced by him having to sit out a year at Kansas.

Ben McLemore didn't have a single offer until winter of his junior year. He came a national prospect in the spring of his junior year. His freshman year he played jv, and made the Eagles but chose to play for another aau team. Same thing soph yr. Winter of his junior year, his high school coaches gave me his tapes and we started shipping them off and I made a highlight video and then he started getting offers. His sophomore year I told Cuonzo Martin and Jon Harris about McLemore in person at Normandy holiday tournament and they knew he was going to blow up with time.

[STL Hoops Insider]

2 hours ago, cheeseman said:

Ben M was someone RM was crazy about - he wanted him bad.  I know for a fact - I heard him say this - that once he looked at the kid's transcript he said there is no way he would qualify per NCAA requirements so he moved on.  He was shocked that KU finagled him in - he said that only a program like that or Duke or NC could get away with that so that was Ben M problems not that he played small school competition.  Harrellson's situation has been well documented.  Brad told him not to sign in the fall because he was interested but wanted to wait until the spring.  Harrellson did not wait - he signed with Western IL.  Then he kind of blew up his senior year and he wanted out but the coach would not do so.  He went to a Jucco across the river and Brad thought he had him locked up.  The kid told him he was going to sign on that Monday but that he was going to KY just for a good time so not to worry.  Well he must have had a heck of a time at least from the pix that were posted because he signed with KY not us.  Brad was wrong to not lock him up in the Fall given that Brad had all these extra schollies - but he often dallied to long on kids and lost the edge so that one was all on him.

I'm talking about this board and the reasons you guys didn't want these 2 players initially when I kept bringing them up, prior to either of them blowing up.

[3star_recruit]

22 hours ago, STL Hoops Insider said:

I never said offer Watts

C'mon now.

 

[STL Hoops Insider]

I never used the word offer. Like I said, I'm really careful with that word. And most of that talk was under Brad, not RM. 

[3star_recruit]

6 minutes ago, STL Hoops Insider said:

I never used the word offer. Like I said, I'm really careful with that word. And most of that talk was under Brad, not RM. 

 

http://www.billikens.com/forum/index.php?/topic/10496-watts-destroying-the-competition-for-cowley/&tab=comments#comment-106746

Post #1

Check out the numbers from his last five games. 24pts including game winner with 1.8 second remaining vs Independence CC ,23pts vs Highland CC, 21pts vs Coffeyville CC, 24pts vs Johnson County CC,and 19pts vs Allen County CC. I hope Brad has offered him. He just flat out gets the job done. Big time player.

[cheeseman]

2 hours ago, STL Hoops Insider said:

I'm talking about this board and the reasons you guys didn't want these 2 players initially when I kept bringing them up, prior to either of them blowing up.

Don't throw me in the bunch - I had no problem with either one.  It simply was that RM knew the transcript would have to be doctored and he was not going to do that but apparently Self had no problem going there.  Brad simply sh*t all over himself with Harrleson - so what else is new.

[STL Hoops Insider]

I missed that. But I'll stand behind it. Looking at the time and date, it means Luke Meyer was our starting pf at the time and a very similar player of similar size and skill. I don't have a problem with that. Remember it was Brad not RM, and he won 20 games with Luke at pf. And If I'm reading the quote correctly it's says "hope he offers", I don't see where I say he should or would be making a mistake not to offer

[cheeseman]

4 minutes ago, STL Hoops Insider said:

I missed that. But I'll stand behind it. Looking at the time and date, it means Luke Meyer was our starting pf at the time and a very similar player of similar size and skill. I don't have a problem with that. Remember it was Brad not RM, and he won 20 games with Luke at pf. And If I'm reading the quote correctly it's says "hope he offers", I don't see where I say he should or would be making a mistake not to offer

Was that the year he got fired.

[STL Hoops Insider]

Yes, he was fired after a 20 win season and replaced by a legend. If he had been replaced by Crews he'd be more appreciated for what he was building locally.  Sometime he got wrong local guys like Knollmeyer and Mitchell but he was making serious inroads and I believe he would've eventually sealed off St. Louis. I don't blame him losing guys like Tyus and Swopshire that skipped town.

[billiken_roy]

http://www.bnd.com/sports/high-school/prep-basketball/article172853786.html

 

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