Chris Lowe doesn't want to play for a coach like Majerus

[dewey33]

http://www.stltoday.com/blogzone/billiken-...slu-basketball/

its funny....

[worthington]

Oh well, we still have a coach by the name of RICK MAJERUS.

[satrap]

http://www.stltoday.com/blogzone/billiken-...slu-basketball/

its funny....

That's simply an asinine comment. Asinine. There is no coach, anywhere, worth a damn who plays a style that overrides personnel. If Derek Kellog wants to run and gun with one or two passes / posession and do it when he has a dip in talent, I hope he loses 20 games. Hell, I hope UMass loses 20 games anyway. Asinine.

[SS601]

http://www.stltoday.com/blogzone/billiken-...slu-basketball/

its funny....

Chris Lowe is correct! Players want up tempo basketball. RM will never get the type of players that will help him win a National Championship. His style of play doesn't work anymore.

[brianstl]

Chris Lowe is correct! Players want up tempo basketball. RM will never get the type of players that will help him win a National Championship. His style of play doesn't work anymore.

His style of basketball is playing pretty well at UCLA and Pitt.

[SS601]

His style of basketball is playing pretty well at UCLA and Pitt.

You named two schools that were destroyed by up tempo teams in the tournament. Schools like Memphis will always get the top recruits.

[billiken_roy]

You named two schools that were destroyed by up tempo teams in the tournament. Schools like Memphis will always get the top recruits.

you think memphis gets top recruits because of their style of play?

[moytoy12]

You named two schools that were destroyed by up tempo teams in the tournament. Schools like Memphis will always get the top recruits.

Exactly, who wants a team like UCLA or Pitt?

[brianstl]

Exactly, who wants a team like UCLA or Pitt?

UCLA's three straight Final Fours really suck.

[SS601]

Exactly, who wants a team like UCLA or Pitt?

I'm glad that you agree. The Final Four told it all!

[moytoy12]

I'm glad that you agree. The Final Four told it all!

Preach on brother. I'd hate it if the Bills turn into another UCLA or Pitt, that'd be terrible.

[SS601]

Preach on brother. I'd hate it if the Bills turn into another UCLA or Pitt, that'd be terrible.

That would be nice, but it won't happen. I was thinking more like Memphis.

[NashvilleBilliken]

The only way a system like Memphis' works is if you have the absolute best athletes in the country. We will never get those kids. If you aren't the best, then the system is beatable quite easily with good defense and a deliberate offense. Rick will have the Bills playing the style that is best for our program. We will not be playing a slow game. Porter said on the radio that we should be scoring in the 70's. That is not a slow game. The only thing that slows the system down is good defense. He said he doesn't care when the shot is taken. Just that it's a good shot.

[SS601]

The only way a system like Memphis' works is if you have the absolute best athletes in the country. We will never get those kids. If you aren't the best, then the system is beatable quite easily with good defense and a deliberate offense. Rick will have the Bills playing the style that is best for our program. We will not be playing a slow game. Porter said on the radio that we should be scoring in the 70's. That is not a slow game. The only thing that slows the system down is good defense. He said he doesn't care when the shot is taken. Just that it's a good shot.

That sounds good, but it's far from the truth! RM DOES CARE WHEN THE SHOT IS TAKEN AND ALWAYS WILL! Why will we never get the super athletes like Memphis does?

[NashvilleBilliken]

That sounds good, but it's far from the truth! RM DOES CARE WHEN THE SHOT IS TAKEN AND ALWAYS WILL! Why will we never get the super athletes like Memphis does?

Where did Majerus say that? Cause he has said multiple times its not about when a shot is taken but the type of shot taken. I'm inclined to believe him.

[moytoy12]

Where did Majerus say that? Cause he has said multiple times its not about when a shot is taken but the type of shot taken. I'm inclined to believe him.

Not me, i'm inclined to believe SS601.

[jimbofive]

Not me, i'm inclined to believe SS601.

Samesies! I myself have been a SS601ian for years. The yearly membership dues are very low, and you get to choose from three flavors of punch!

[SS601]

Samesies! I myself have been a SS601ian for years. The yearly membership dues are very low, and you get to choose from three flavors of punch!

Jimbo, you are truly funny!

[Major Majerus]

! Why will we never get the super athletes like Memphis does?

We can't match their payroll...

[slu72]

Jimbo, you are truly funny!

Majerus is a mini Al McGuire. The biggest sin in Al's book was to take a bad shot. I remember an interview where he told of immediately benching one of his best players for taking a bad shot that put them ahead in a tight NCAA game. He said it absolutely infuriated him to see a kid take an errant shot. I think this is why we struggled early in the season for baskets. Our kids were questioning whether a shot was a good one or a bad one. The safe way out was not to take it, and let someone else risk the wrath of RM.

[Pistol]

The only way a system like Memphis' works is if you have the absolute best athletes in the country. We will never get those kids. If you aren't the best, then the system is beatable quite easily with good defense and a deliberate offense. Rick will have the Bills playing the style that is best for our program. We will not be playing a slow game. Porter said on the radio that we should be scoring in the 70's. That is not a slow game. The only thing that slows the system down is good defense. He said he doesn't care when the shot is taken. Just that it's a good shot.

There are a lot more teams than Memphis using the dribble-drive offense, many of which are succeeding with it. It isn't very common at the DI level and it is probably better used with teams that have a lot of athletic slasher-types on the roster. According to the recent SI article by Grant Wahl, about 224 teams around the country are using it now, at the high school and collegiate levels.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dribble_drive_motion (links to SI and Sporting News articles at the bottom under "References")

I also don't subscribe to the theory that a coach's instruction to "take the best shot possible" inevitably leads to a slower, less fan-friendly style of play. Good players know that this does not mean wear out the clock and hope the defense gets lazy enough to create a hole somewhere; good shots can come early in the shot clock. It's all about recruiting smart players who are comfortable with each other, not playing the Princeton offense or requiring 5 passes before a shot.

[Taj79]

Eventually, talent will have an off night. Slashers and athletes will have to recognize and equalizing factor on the other side of the ball, whether that is style, coaching, equal athleticism or whatever. At that point, put me int he camp that wants a coach, not a game manager. Calipari is fine when all he has to do is shuttle guys in and out of 20- to 30-pont blowout games. Its when he has actually coach (i.e 2008 National Title Game) that he usually has a brain cramp and can't move because his ###### is so tight.

Certain guys could always coach and prepare --- McGuire, Paterno, Spoon, Belicheck, Bennett, Cheyney, Carnesceca, Shero and others. Other teams would have superior talent but no brains on either the bench or the court. Calipari is always one. I think a lot of Huggy's high-priced talent at Cincy fell apart because of a lack of leadership on the floor. The joke in teh NFl was playing Schottenheimer ball --- run out to a halftime lead, go ultra-conservative, and choke in the stretch run.

We will never get the athletes a Memphis gets. Look at a number of reasons --- no tradition, no big pay roll, no girls friends qualified let alone working at the Gold Club, no chump majors, No FedEx boosters slipping cash into the pizza delivery box, whatever. I can't ever see St. Louis University having its entire starting lineup declare for the NBA draft --- ever. We had one in our entire history and the program has yet to recover from that move over a decade ago.

If you don't have the equalizing talent, then you have to have something that combats the shortfall. The next best thing, in my book, to a consistent string of players is a consistent coach. Its a well-accepted fact that kids go to a certain school based on a certain coach. If you don't like Majerus or his style, you don't go to his school. Plain and simple. Which means, to me, only a certain type of kid is going to look at his program and if that's the case, hey, past history shows he's pretty good at doing what he can rather well with the kids he gets. No one from Utah is setting the pro game on fire (not that that's a good, bad or indifferent thing). But his track record speaks for itself.

With our crappy littellprogram, I'll take that and pray its a step upwards. My crawl-walk-run program is win consistently first, followed by always be in the running for the A10 title and the accompanying NCAA bid, and then who knows, maybe get unbelievably hot for a seven or so game run in March/April. The run part is a pipe dream and like Meatlof says "two out of three ain't bad."

Those believing we will have a program like Memphis are sadly mistaken. Our goal should be to be like a Creighton, Butler, Gonzaga and Xavier.

[SS601]

Eventually, talent will have an off night. Slashers and athletes will have to recognize and equalizing factor on the other side of the ball, whether that is style, coaching, equal athleticism or whatever. At that point, put me int he camp that wants a coach, not a game manager. Calipari is fine when all he has to do is shuttle guys in and out of 20- to 30-pont blowout games. Its when he has actually coach (i.e 2008 National Title Game) that he usually has a brain cramp and can't move because his ###### is so tight.

Certain guys could always coach and prepare --- McGuire, Paterno, Spoon, Belicheck, Bennett, Cheyney, Carnesceca, Shero and others. Other teams would have superior talent but no brains on either the bench or the court. Calipari is always one. I think a lot of Huggy's high-priced talent at Cincy fell apart because of a lack of leadership on the floor. The joke in teh NFl was playing Schottenheimer ball --- run out to a halftime lead, go ultra-conservative, and choke in the stretch run.

We will never get the athletes a Memphis gets. Look at a number of reasons --- no tradition, no big pay roll, no girls friends qualified let alone working at the Gold Club, no chump majors, No FedEx boosters slipping cash into the pizza delivery box, whatever. I can't ever see St. Louis University having its entire starting lineup declare for the NBA draft --- ever. We had one in our entire history and the program has yet to recover from that move over a decade ago.

If you don't have the equalizing talent, then you have to have something that combats the shortfall. The next best thing, in my book, to a consistent string of players is a consistent coach. Its a well-accepted fact that kids go to a certain school based on a certain coach. If you don't like Majerus or his style, you don't go to his school. Plain and simple. Which means, to me, only a certain type of kid is going to look at his program and if that's the case, hey, past history shows he's pretty good at doing what he can rather well with the kids he gets. No one from Utah is setting the pro game on fire (not that that's a good, bad or indifferent thing). But his track record speaks for itself.

With our crappy littellprogram, I'll take that and pray its a step upwards. My crawl-walk-run program is win consistently first, followed by always be in the running for the A10 title and the accompanying NCAA bid, and then who knows, maybe get unbelievably hot for a seven or so game run in March/April. The run part is a pipe dream and like Meatlof says "two out of three ain't bad."

Those believing we will have a program like Memphis are sadly mistaken. Our goal should be to be like a Creighton, Butler, Gonzaga and Xavier.

Taj79,

I honestly respect your post. I think that you are correct on players chosing a program based on style of play and the coach. The ultimate goal for a head DI coach is not only getting to the tournament, but winning the National Championship! You mentioned Creighton,Butler, Gonzaga, and Xavier which are all solid programs, but they don't have a chance at winning a National Championship. It starts with recruitment. You MUST bring in players that can compete on a high level and that are difference makers. You said we can't get players like Memphis, I disagree. I think RM doesn't want players like at Memphis. He has a reputation of that slow tempo style of play and top recruits don't want that. SLU was the highlight on ESPN for scoring 20 points the entire game! Every top player in the country watches ESPN! Do you honestly think they would want to sign with SLU after seeing that?

You mentioned having all talent and no brains. I don't care how smart you are, without talent you can only go so far! What good is it to have a bunch of smart kids that can't play? The Ivy league schools are now recruiting the more athletic player. I'm glad that Johnny Dawkins got the job at Stanford. He will recruit a total different player than he did at Duke! Coach K MUST recruit the athletic player again if he wants to win another Championship. I don't care how good of an X and O coach you are. You have to have TALENT!

[Clock_Tower]

Taj79,

I honestly respect your post. I think that you are correct on players chosing a program based on style of play and the coach. The ultimate goal for a head DI coach is not only getting to the tournament, but winning the National Championship! You mentioned Creighton,Butler, Gonzaga, and Xavier which are all solid programs, but they don't have a chance at winning a National Championship. It starts with recruitment. You MUST bring in players that can compete on a high level and that are difference makers. You said we can't get players like Memphis, I disagree. I think RM doesn't want players like at Memphis. He has a reputation of that slow tempo style of play and top recruits don't want that. SLU was the highlight on ESPN for scoring 20 points the entire game! Every top player in the country watches ESPN! Do you honestly think they would want to sign with SLU after seeing that?

You mentioned having all talent and no brains. I don't care how smart you are, without talent you can only go so far! What good is it to have a bunch of smart kids that can't play? The Ivy league schools are now recruiting the more athletic player. I'm glad that Johnny Dawkins got the job at Stanford. He will recruit a total different player than he did at Duke! Coach K MUST recruit the athletic player again if he wants to win another Championship. I don't care how good of an X and O coach you are. You have to have TALENT!

SS. Next time watch/listen to the game you are referring to. If you think RM's style of play is what caused us to score 20 points, you are sadly mistaken.

As to your argument as a whole, style of play only gets you so far. Without Rose, Memphis likely would have been a 5 or 6 seed and lost in Round 2. Mike Anderson has tried to implement 40 minutes of hell and it is not working so far. 40 minutes of hell worked quite well for Richardson when he had the talent to implement the same and when Anderson had some high level talent at UAB also. Day in and day in the Big 12, not so sure.

Also, while kids do enjoy running, what makes you think RM wants to play games at such a low pace. While you do not mention it, your posts suggest RM's teams at SLU would be in the 50 point range. I don't recall RM ever using the terms "points per possession" or deliberately trying to play slow down ball like his predecessor did. Instead, RM simply got thru this past year as best as he could knowing, IMO in advance, that our seniors would graduate and that 3 to 4 of the others would be gone while keeping true to his fundamental style of play. Based upon his past record, I would expect wins/games with us scoring in the 70 point/low 80 point range. What's wrong with that? Is that too slow? I would suggest that is the norm in college basketball.

[SS601]

SS. Next time watch/listen to the game you are referring to. If you think RM's style of play is what caused us to score 20 points, you are sadly mistaken.

As to your argument as a whole, style of play only gets you so far. Without Rose, Memphis likely would have been a 5 or 6 seed and lost in Round 2. Mike Anderson has tried to implement 40 minutes of hell and it is not working so far. 40 minutes of hell worked quite well for Richardson when he had the talent to implement the same and when Anderson had some high level talent at UAB also. Day in and day in the Big 12, not so sure.

Also, while kids do enjoy running, what makes you think RM wants to play games at such a low pace. While you do not mention it, your posts suggest RM's teams at SLU would be in the 50 point range. I don't recall RM ever using the terms "points per possession" or deliberately trying to play slow down ball like his predecessor did. Instead, RM simply got thru this past year as best as he could knowing, IMO in advance, that our seniors would graduate and that 3 to 4 of the others would be gone while keeping true to his fundamental style of play. Based upon his past record, I would expect wins/games with us scoring in the 70 point/low 80 point range. What's wrong with that? Is that too slow? I would suggest that is the norm in college basketball.

Clock Tower,

20 points is 20 points! DI basketball team? Enough said!!!