Basketball hotbeds

[Sheltiedave]

An interesting look at basketball hotbeds around the country, though a little stale.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2005/writ....bag/2.html#top

I've been reading Hardball's comments about recruiting, and it strikes me he likes to have it both ways. He rails about recruits we didn't get, and then ignores the fact we had one of the best sharks in the coaching arena who didn't get it turned around. Close, but didn't finish on ANY of the top flight recruits. The shark business startegy did not work, and may of the fans railing against Brad seem very eager to beat their heads against flash and dash again.

Romar was a high class shark. Pearl is no class. Sharks will always move on to the greener grass, while the good program builders generally want to stay put. I think we have a program builder who does not cut corners and is building a program the right way, with local players who are talented and good kids.

[slu72]

I don't think anyone's arguing that UB is building it one brick at a time. And that probably for this program's long term health, he may be the best guy for the job, ie in the mold of a Martelli, Altmann, even Crean. It's just taking sooooo damn long and there's been so little to crow about in the last 4 years. Now, the whole perception of the UB era could change this year with a dance invite and a decent recruiting class. If neither of these happen, this board is gonna get nasty.

[cheeseman]

I keep reading how people are expecting - not hoping - for a NCAA Tourney appearance from this team. I am hopeful but lets be realistic. If the A10 is a 2 team invite conf. then that means we have to come in at least 2nd or win the conf. tourney. If we come in 2nd and a sleeper wins the conf. tourney then our 2nd place finish might not be good enough. If we come in 1st and a sleeper wins the tourney then we are fine but given that we are picked 3rd or 4th in the conf. makes it a harder task to accomplish. Now I know we came in 4th last year and were picked 13th but really we all knew that 13th place was way off base. Most of us thought we would at least be middle of the pack. Now that we are picked higher, can we really be certain today that the predictors are wrong this time also and that we are actually better? Once again hopeful but hard to bet the ranch on it. I realize that winning the tourney is the only sure bet but our past record in conf. tourneys is not very encouraging - only one trophy and that was in CUSA. My realistic expectations for this team is to finish 3 or 4th in the conf., win 19 -20 games- I say that because the game against Quincy while we should win it, it won't count as a win for NCAA tourney purposes, and gain a post season invite to either the NCAA tourney or the NIT with us playing deep into the NIT if that is the case. Now before people tell me my expectations are too low let me remind you that these are my realistic expectations not my hopes. I will be disappointed if we do not go to the NCAA tourney but not devastated. A viable recruiting class is a must however since that is the only way we can improve each year. By the way, I am very hopeful that the A10 surprises some and becomes a 3 team tourney conf - that would make SLU's chances much improved.

[Quality Is Job 1]

By definition, hope is a confident expectation. The way most people use the word hope makes it synomous to wish. I wish the Bills would make like George Mason and surprise folks in the Final Four. I hope they make the NCAA Tournament.

[Billiken Rich]

If we win twenty plus games and manage to have a decent RPI I don't care how many other A10 teams make the dance. The "A10 is a two bid conference" stuff is crap. With this schedule, how many wins do you think we need to get an at large bid?

[slufanskip]

What makes you assume the A10 is a 2 bid conference?

If the A10 is a 4 bid conference I feel better about our chances, if it a 6 bid conference I feel even stronger, and if all 14 teams go dancing I feel really good.

You know I am being sarcastic ... just the constant negative assumptions from so many people get old.

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[Hardball]

Sheltidave

You and the rest of the apologists are absolutely crazy. Nuts no better way to describe it. All of you keep defending something that can't be defended. Five years and no NCAA Tournament bids, MULTIPLE missed recruiting opportunties, not filling all scholarships, spring signings of players no one has heard of, taking players other programs shun and calling it a success yet the blue juice keeps flowing and the Kool-Aid drinkers keep drinking.

First, who is talking about having it both ways. I am talking about results. I am not hanging my hat on the fact Brad luck into a recruit from overseas and signed two kids who were going to come to SLU regardless of who was the coach. If the blue juice drinkers want to keep adding sugar to their pitcher of Kool-Aid that is their perogitive. It makes us look second class but maybe that's were we should be. No expectations and happy with the stay the course mentality.

Second. There is no sure fix to anyones program but I know that in order to turn around a program you have to be able to recruit. Something this staff has been awful at. BS has been here 5 years and all kool-aid drinkers can point to is three recruits. Heck schools get three great kids in a year not over a span of five years. He has made many more mistakes in recruiting then he can claim successes. Whether it be misevaluations or not getting the player he decides is his number one priority.

Third, all coaches are Sharks ...so what. It is a by product of their profession. Roy Williams left Kansas, Pitino left Kentucky, Montgomery left Stanford...SO WHAT! Whould you be so full of the the BLUE JUICE that you wouldn't take any one of the three "sharks"? And who cares if they leave? Look at the coaches that replaced Williams,Pitino and Monty. I take anyone of those coaches too. If the best defense you have for BS being the SLU head coach is he doesn't want go anywhere else keep the Kool-Aid coming.

It is hilarious how some have forgotten the miscalculations of Romar. Romar problems were a direct result to the fact he tried to recruit West Coast kids to SLU. That was a double hard sell but one he was getting done. Remeber Hollins was committed to SLU before Romar left. Romar beat out UCLA when BS can't beat out Miami of Ohio. But if you want to compare Romar to BS have at it.

Finally to you commnt about building the program the right way with local kids. BS missed on Tatum, Ahern,Shaw and Stemler all local kids who could have made this program better. Talking about having it both ways or is it ......the pot calling the kettle....

Pass the Kool-Aid please!

[Billiken Rich]

Hardball said: "I am not hanging my hat on the fact Brad luck into a recruit from overseas and signed two kids who were going to come to SLU regardless of who was the coach."

You are talking though your hat with this poo. Have you talked to Tommie, Kevin, and Ian. How the heck do know that Romar or who ever wouldn't have been chasing some top 25 dude that wouldn't come here and leaving us chasing scraps after Kevin went to IL, Ian played pro ball in Greece and Tommie went to UNLV?

You are a classic hater.

Are you sure you aren't Kevin Slaten? The constant koolaid references are making me wonder. (along with the arrogance and inability to admit to complete fabrications and inaccuracies of course)

[NashvilleBilliken]

It's not worth responding to Hardball's posts anymore, Rich. As you say, he is a classic hater. Romar...arguably one of the best recruiters in the nation...had no success recruiting at SLU. He had one recruit...who didn't come here... who didn't do $hit until the second half of his senior year at UCLA. Of course, now he's an idiot because he tried to recruit west coast kids. Any other coach we bring in will be smarter than Romar, and obviously smarter than BS. We've had one blue chipper in like 50 years. If we start winning, they will come. It's a lose lose situation to even try to rationalize.

[Hardball]

Shelti, I like your response much better this time. Rather than spending time defending points that can't be defended you elect to call people names. Anyone that has a different vision for SLU basketball and challenges the Kool-Aid club are now referred to as haters.

You and Rich can take your ball and go home but as long as I contiue to follow the Billikens I will expect the best and not settle for medocrity.

Rich next time I elect to post just go on by because you really don't have anything to contribute to a basketball discussion. Now if we get into a game of name calling you will be the first one I call. Bottomss up!

More kool-Aid anyone?

[Billiken Rich]

You are an uninformed, ignorant hater. Your statements about the recruiting of the three best players on the Billiken squad are indefensible. You have nothing to contribute but hate.

[cheeseman]

Rich - being hopeful is really just a wish and nothing more. However, there are degrees of hopefulenes. My hopefuleness is more than just a wild eyed wish but one that has some grounding in the facts but certainly would not want to bet a large sum on it happening.

Skip - the predictors say the A10 is a 2 team conf. this year for the Dance. I hope they are wrong but going with the consensus for it to be a 4 team conf is really expecting alot.

All I tried to do was stay focused on the realities and not get to overboard.

[Billiken Rich]

I agree to a large extent but I hate hearing people say how many bids prior to the season. This team, X, Umass, St. Joes, GW, could all get hot and make it.

I'm not betting on any A10 team but the "consensus" had us at near the bottom last year. It's not pie in the sky stuff to see us winning the conference this year or at least being iin the top two or three.

[Hardball]

Finished?

Good.

Next time pass my posts by!

oh and don't forget to pass the Kool-Aid.

[Billiken Rich]

Why even bother responding with drivel? Just tell us your source for the outlandish claim that Kevin, Tommie, and Ian were "coming here anyway." I'd love to hear it.

You have nothing to contribute but ignorance and hate.

[kshoe]

"Romar...arguably one of the best recruiters in the nation...had no success recruiting at SLU."

So are we doomed to never be a good program? You are one of the most positive on this board but that seems like a fatalistic comment.

Its ironic but the most positive people on this board are the ones that seemingly accept our past mediocrity and justify it.

One thing I know for sure is I don't want this program to be mediocre like it has the past 6 years.

[ACE]

>Shelti, I like your response much better this time. Rather

>than spending time defending points that can't be defended

>you elect to call people names. Anyone that has a different

>vision for SLU basketball and challenges the Kool-Aid club

>are now referred to as haters.

>

>You and Rich can take your ball and go home but as long as I

>contiue to follow the Billikens I will expect the best and

>not settle for medocrity.

>

>Rich next time I elect to post just go on by because you

>really don't have anything to contribute to a basketball

>discussion. Now if we get into a game of name calling you

>will be the first one I call. Bottomss up!

>

>More kool-Aid anyone?

I am hardly a "kool aid" drinker and there is a shred of truth in some of the criticisms you state, but you are losing credibility big time by not responding to the Vashon thread. You threw out a theory that several people have refuted. It looks like you are not willing to back up your claim. That was a careless accusation if you had nothing to back it up with. Are you a SLU fan who wants to see the program do well and is offering constructive criticism? Or are you just another flamer like some of the Mizlosers we've seen on this board? I'm starting to wonder.

[Billiken Rich]

Take a deep breath Shoe this season will be better. No one is accepting of mediocrity. Some of us see a long term plan and a team that is getting better.

If you don't see that please tell me your solution to make us better. A terrific recruiter like Quin Snyder could probably be had cheap......

[kshoe]

Well, as I explained on another thread before being blasted, I do expect this year to be much better but its the years after that I worry about. I worry because I think our recruiting has been way below average since the day after Kevin oralled to us (2.5 years ago) and I think these recruiting failures will cost us in future years. Think about the recruits we have signed since then and tell me which are going to lead this team in the future (Obi, DM, AK and HD).

My solution would include hiring an assistant that is known for his recruiting. Jamal Walker is hopefully a step in the right direction but that remains to be seen.

All I know is no program can truly claim a long term plan and that the team on the right track when the majority of your recruits are late signings in the spring to plug holes in the line-up.

We all are hopeful that Powell signs with us or the juco that was visiting Wisconsin because other than that it sounds like we are looking towards the junior class and crossing our fingers.

[Hardball]

I have no reason for not replyng to the Vashon thread. If you remember correctly I was a proponant of AB to getting back into coaching as a possibble assisitant at SLU. Then the child custody issue was reported and peolple started bailing on the AB and SLU reunion. I don't think SLU has been very good it making sure AB feels like a permenat part of the family. Hence my comments about hoping the relationship is good becuase if it is not SLU's looses a great resource for talent.

[ACE]

>I have no reason for not replyng to the Vashon thread. If

>you remember correctly I was a proponant of AB to getting

>back into coaching as a possibble assisitant at SLU. Then

>the child custody issue was reported and peolple started

>bailing on the AB and SLU reunion. I don't think SLU has

>been very good it making sure AB feels like a permenat part

>of the family. Hence my comments about hoping the

>relationship is good becuase if it is not SLU's looses a

>great resource for talent.

You declared SLU "had forgotten" him. Others refuted that point. Apparently you had nothing to back up that claim.

[slufanskip]

Kshoe ... I don't completely disagree, but I think you should at least see the guys play before assumming they are role players. After Ian leaves we will still have Kevin and Tommie plus older more experienced guys such as Luke, Dwayne, and Danny. We could have a pretty good guard situation for 3 more years. We don't need the inside players to be superstars, just good solid players, if one of them happens to turn out to be very good, we will be better than this years team. Also we have Bryce next year. I know some people discount him, and I doubt he will be a good scorer ... but he works hard and can alter the game defensively ... just take a look and see how the guys play this year ... it seems to me it's jumping the gun a bit to start assumming we won't be any good 2 years down the road when you haven't seen 4 players who will be an integral part of any success or failure down the road play.

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[NashvilleBilliken]

Not at all what I meant. I think if we continue to get the level of players we have right now, we will start winning and join our friends in the field of 65. I think Brad can coach the players we have to fit into a system and win...just my opinion that many people on here don't agree with. I think once we start winning, we will be able to land higher caliber high school players. Romar was unsuccessful bringing in top 25 recruits because nobody wants to play for a losing team...which is our current predicament.

[ACE]

>Well, as I explained on another thread before being blasted,

>I do expect this year to be much better but its the years

>after that I worry about. I worry because I think our

>recruiting has been way below average since the day after

>Kevin oralled to us (2.5 years ago) and I think these

>recruiting failures will cost us in future years. Think

>about the recruits we have signed since then and tell me

>which are going to lead this team in the future (Obi, DM, AK

>and HD).

>

>My solution would include hiring an assistant that is known

>for his recruiting. Jamal Walker is hopefully a step in the

>right direction but that remains to be seen.

>

>All I know is no program can truly claim a long term plan

>and that the team on the right track when the majority of

>your recruits are late signings in the spring to plug holes

>in the line-up.

>

>We all are hopeful that Powell signs with us or the juco

>that was visiting Wisconsin because other than that it

>sounds like we are looking towards the junior class and

>crossing our fingers.

Kshoe is right on the money. The recruiting since Kevin and Tommie has been a concern. A strong recruiting class in the fall and making the Tourney will quickly erase those concerns.

[Hardball]

Here is my entire post.

"This has the potential to be a big problem.

If AB gets the Vashon job I am wondering what his feelings are for his Alma Mater after we pretty much forgotten him. We better get Powells verbal soon or we can kiss another recruit good-bye.

Let's hope AB doesn't fall into the SWIC Campo group."

The key phrases in my post are potential,wondering and pretty much. Not really what one would consider definite accusational words. But if you feel they were that's fine too.