gister Posted August 20, 2003 Share Posted August 20, 2003 I was over on the C-USA site trying to figure out the conference schedule for next year (no luck) and I ran across the 2003-04 basketball prospectus. As I was paging down I ran across a bunch of NCAA statistics for last year. One that popped out and that I had not heard about, is that the Bills were 5th in the NCAA in terms of fewest turnovers per game. I think Cincy was 3rd. Not bad! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NashvilleBilliken Posted August 20, 2003 Share Posted August 20, 2003 Fifth in the NCAA is pretty good IMO. That really explains how we won those 8 games last year with the minimum talent we had (that and Marque's enormous heart). If we do it again this year, I think we could be in a good position come late winter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thetorch Posted August 21, 2003 Share Posted August 21, 2003 Wow I thought we were pretty good at that stat but did not expect 5th in the NCAA. Wonder how having a real PG like Morris will affect those stats next year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quality Is Job 1 Posted August 21, 2003 Share Posted August 21, 2003 Check out this list of guards/ballhandlers: Josh Fisher Anthony Drejaj Brandon Morris Darren Clarke Dwayne Polk For the next two years, at least, Brad Soderberg will have no less than four steady ballhandlers and should be able to keep two (or more, on occasion) on the floor at all times. Man, I can't wait for the season to roll around! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted August 21, 2003 Share Posted August 21, 2003 i find it humorous that you imply that we didnt have a real point guard last year. the fact is, perry, fisher and drejaj are all extremely good at protecting the ball and bringing it down the floor. all you need to do is look at the louisville game and if that alone didnt tell you that we had 3 superb points nothing will. louisville got to number one in the land by dominating the guard position with their stifling press. our guards knifed through, over, and around that press the entire game to stay close and then give perry the chance to win the game. even then, when got that steal with seconds left, we still had to convert, and the last play where the 4 point guards were all in the game together and marvelously (is that a word?) swung the ball around the perimeter bringing the clock to the last second for marque was a play that should be burned in our minds forever as billiken legend. it was action that i feel was accomplished mainly because they were all point guards. i guarantee you that other teams would love to have our pretend point guards. heck, missouri fell all over themselves to ****** our third string point guard. in fact, right now, after pulley, phillip hunt would be the tigers second best point guard. and ironically drejaj and fisher are both better than pulley. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taj79 Posted August 21, 2003 Share Posted August 21, 2003 .... granted our numbers were excellent but can we also attribute that to the fact that we don't play a style of game that is hazardous to your health when it comes to turnovers? We don't run and gun we play conservative ball control so what I'm saying is that the style of play is also conducive to lower numbers of turnovers as well. I'd like to know where we stood in a category like "fast break points scored." For the last three or four years, I seem to recall points coming at a premium for our Bills ..... whether that was due to a lack of scorers or an offense that seemed to take things down to the last five seconds or so of a possession. My position is that employing such a style assists in keeping the to's to a lower number as opposed to the other style. Overall its a nice to know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quality Is Job 1 Posted August 21, 2003 Share Posted August 21, 2003 Roy, I love how enthusiastic you are about the Billikens, but I hate the way you spin things. (Is there any way to separate the two?) First of all, Louisville got as high as No. 2. They were never No. 1. Second, you overstate the case when you said that Phillip Hunt would be Missouri's second-best point guard after Randy Pulley. I'm sorry Roy, but that damages your credibility. Besides the fact that Hunt isn't even a point guard for the Billikens (he's a very short shooting guard -- and a walk-on), both Jimmy McKinney and Spence Laurie are better point guards than Hunt. Hunt's role on the Tigers would be the same as it is on the Bills. Other than that, great post. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quality Is Job 1 Posted August 21, 2003 Share Posted August 21, 2003 In a game with fewer possessions, turnovers would likely decrease. Still I imagine SLU was very good taking care of the ball. If such a stat existed, I'd be interested in seeing where the Bills ranked in turnovers per possession. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kwyjibo Posted August 21, 2003 Share Posted August 21, 2003 Excellent point and thanks for bringing it to our attention. According to STATFOX we were 6th and Cincy was 4th but this may be due to rounding errors by STATFOX: http://www.statfox.com/cbb/stats/custom.as...=2003&Sort=TO-A And it is not as though we did not face excellent full court (as Roy mentioned Louisville probably had the most notorious press in the country) and half court pressure, we faced some of the teams that created the most turnovers per game (UAB led the nation in creating turnovers and St. Bona was known for more than its players' welding skills last year): UAB (1st in the nation): 21 turnovers per game Louisville (top 20):17 turnovers St. Bona (top 20): 17 turnovers Arizona (top 50): 16 turnovers http://www.statfox.com/cbb/stats/custom.as...n=2003&Sort=OTO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quality Is Job 1 Posted August 21, 2003 Share Posted August 21, 2003 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tseugnekillib Posted August 21, 2003 Share Posted August 21, 2003 Nothing is more precious to Coach Soderberg than "protecting the ball"! Over the course of SLU's practice season, no phase of the game gets more practice time than the drills designed to "protect the ball". Their daily 3 on 3, 4 on 4, 5 on 5 NO DRIBBLE drills were both time consuming and physical. The emphasis on making good passes under heavy, heavy pressure are demanding both mentally and physically. It was no accident that SLU's turnover numbers were low. Drejaj was not a very good passer/ballhandler at the start of the season. Through his hard work and a heavy emphasis on the NO DRIBBLE drills, Drejaj passing decisions improved substantially. Fisher improved as well, but not to the degree that Drejaj improved. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slufanskip Posted August 21, 2003 Share Posted August 21, 2003 I think why some people don't consider Drejaj and Fisher to be "point guards" is because they don't drive and dish, or create open looks for team mates with passes that make you go oooh and aaaah. I would also speculate that BS was looking for a more traditional pg due to his recruitment of Morris, who will have only 2 years of eligability. We as a team need to create more offense and I think BS is looking for someone who can do that better and more consistently than AD or JF. Louisville ... was just one game Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted August 21, 2003 Share Posted August 21, 2003 skip said, "I think why some people don't consider Drejaj and Fisher to be "point guards" is because they don't drive and dish, or create open looks for team mates with passes that make you go oooh and aaaah." i dont think i agree with that. most of the oooh and aaah passes from last year (granted there werent a lot) were from the hands of fisher and drejaj. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted August 21, 2003 Share Posted August 21, 2003 i am not sure that mckinney would be a better point guard. mckinny really didnt succeed at the point last year. the couple of games i watched he really looked uncomfortable there. i admittedly forgot about laurie, who i was impressed with at the shootout last year. he is a credible point guard that will remind folks of grawer by the time he leaves i am betting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted August 21, 2003 Share Posted August 21, 2003 fairly, this is an excellent post and points well made. to put it in perspective for hardcore billiken fans. h waldman and claggett were probably the best backcourt duo that the billikens ever had on the floor at the same time. they were backed up by slick carl turner who probably would have been a star with any other billiken team. their senior season they averaged only a little over 11 turnovers per game as compared to this year's team averaging a little less per game. however, that h waldman team had over 100 more assists for the year than last year's team and scored a per game 75.8 points as compared to last year's team scoring 60.7. so as taj stated, less opportunities for turnovers does come into play. still i had to find the best billiken backcourt ever to find a turnover margin even close to what the billikens did last year. still impressive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3star_recruit Posted August 21, 2003 Share Posted August 21, 2003 According to the Journal Sentinel Online archives, Brandon Morris averaged over 7 assists a game in both his junior and senior years of high school and was one of the better defensive guards in the Milwaukee area. I'm looking forward to his playmaking contributions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted August 21, 2003 Share Posted August 21, 2003 3 star, i am not debating that morris will be a good point guard. i have been told by close sources that you need a gun to steal the ball from the guy. all i am saying is that drejaj and fisher deserve their due as point guards as well. they did a good job last year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3star_recruit Posted August 21, 2003 Share Posted August 21, 2003 They did a very job, especially Fisher, of protecting the ball. They were not adept at driving and dishing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kwyjibo Posted August 21, 2003 Share Posted August 21, 2003 There are several distinct point guard skills (ball handling, vision, "safe" passing, "assist" passing, penetrating, movement/flow, etc.) A pure point guard would be a player that did all of the above and more. A player who could do some of those things but not all could still be a very good player without being a "pure point guard". For example, the few times I saw the Billikens last year I was impressed with Anthony's ability to protect the ball and while I saw the occasional mystery pass I was impressed with the "safe passing" but did not see much "assist" passing. Marque was a great penetrator but was looking to score. I will defer to those who saw more games rate Drejaj and Fish on their relative strengths. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slufanskip Posted August 21, 2003 Share Posted August 21, 2003 I agree ... they did an excellent job of protecting the ball, the stats obviously back that up. But they are not good at creating scoring chances for the rest of the team. We need someone who can. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thetorch Posted August 21, 2003 Share Posted August 21, 2003 I would not classify any of the aforementioned players as a real pg. Marque is a 3 in a pgs body, while he did a great job of handling the ball, he was no majic johnson. Drejaj improved over the course of the year with ballhandling and passing, but I still would not call him a true PG. Fischer with his defensive assignments can never be the guy bringing up the ball every play, plus he lacks some pg skills, and passing and ballhandling is behind perry and drejaj. We didn't have a guy lasy year who could bring the ball up the floor against the press, then direct the team in the offense and getting the team to move and have the offense run fluidly. Lets face it the offose was dead alot of times becasue we did not have that playmaker or distributor on the team. MOrris hopefully will bring that aspect to the team, I guy who fill all the roles that a pg needs to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted August 22, 2003 Share Posted August 22, 2003 i am willing to bet that morris "is no magic johnson" as well. it disappoints me that you do not want to admit that fisher and drejaj did a good job last year as point guards. while i am looking forward to seeing morris as well. to be truthful, the one position that i think we needed the least help this next season is the point guard spot. yet it appears our top recruit is a pg. i wish our recruiting priority for last year would have been inside help instead. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thetorch Posted August 22, 2003 Share Posted August 22, 2003 I like both Fischer and Drejaj's game, but I don't think they bring to the table the nessacary things to be an all around pg. Drejaj might this year, as he looked much better handling and passing later iin the year, but Fischer does not have the qualities to be an efficient pg. He can make due with other ballhandlers on the floor like Perry or Drejaj but being a true one is asking too much of him. Add in his tough defensive assignments he simply cannot handle that load. Morris may not be Majic, but I hope he will do these things: be able to bring the ball up successfully in traffic as good or close to Marque, be able to make clean precise passes, but also take chances on breaks like H, be able to direct the half court offense so it keeps flowing and doesn't bog down which was one of our biggest holes last year, making passes is not good enough though, put people in position to score as well. Our cast of PGs from last year collectively could do these things to some degree but no single player could do them all. If morris can we will be a much better team. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quality Is Job 1 Posted August 22, 2003 Share Posted August 22, 2003 1. If Josh Fisher is so inadequate to be the point guard, why is it that he led the squad in assists the last two seasons? Besides that, Lorenzo Romar said Fisher was the team's best passer. 2. Don't lay all that weight on Brandon Morris's shoulders. I think he'll be the primary lead guard, but Coach Soderberg will probably always keep at least two ballhandlers on the floor at all times, and all of the guards will have the opportunities to make plays. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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