slufanskip Posted July 27, 2003 Share Posted July 27, 2003 By big time ... I meant better than the average player in CUSA and I don't think Chris has any chance to be that. He has to work his tail off to maybe get to be the average player. My original point was not to put daown Chris Sloan ... but was wondering how Shaw compared to him, as he seems to be compared with Chris a lot. I still think that unless Shaw has far more athletic ability and can do the things that Chris cannot ... than I don't think he is who we should go after. If we had a full roster and we were looking for him to be a 7th or 8th man who could fill time and ignite a spark in the team with his hustle and grit ... then ok. But if we are looking for some one to play 25 min a game at a high level ... than we have to get more than Sloan Clones. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3star_recruit Posted July 27, 2003 Share Posted July 27, 2003 I wouldn't call Shaw a Sloan clone. I'd call him a Luke Whitehead clone. Both players are about the same size and have very similar games. Shaw's a much better free throw shooter, though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slufanskip Posted July 27, 2003 Share Posted July 27, 2003 That was my original question ... as I've never seen Shaw play. You would have to be very strong and an outstanding leaper to play the 4 in CUSA at 6'6 ... but does he have the skills to play the 3. By the skills I mean can he create his own shot off the dribble. Can he take the ball to the basket and finish in a crowd. Can he shoot the trey. Can he guard the 6'4 ultra quick 3's for the teams with a 3 guard offense. If he can do those things ..or a majority of them ... Then sign him now. He could still play the 4 against smaller teams and we would be unbelievably quick Again ... my previous posts were not meant to knock Chris Sloan ... I've just heard Shaw compared to him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
p diddy Posted July 27, 2003 Share Posted July 27, 2003 shaw has a better low post offensive game than whitehead. luke is a much better rebounder and he can also go out and guard a "3" on defense, while matt can't. i like the comparison because both are about the same size and the same caliber of athlete. when myles went down, whitehead turned into a dennis rodman on the boards in the tournament. what makes sloan so valuable is that he can guard 3's and 4's. he's strong and tenacious enough to guard the low post guys and athletic and quick enough to guard the small forwards. shaw is a traditional four man with the game to match. he worked on his perimeter game quite a bit before his junior year. I hope he continues to expand his game in that regard. that will make him even more versatile. if izik proves that he can handle the 3 spot on a full time basis at 6'10", you can get away with being a little smaller at the 4. llove the way chris sloan plays and he has given a lot to the program, but until he became a scorer during the second half of last year, you were playing four on five when he was on the floor. he has to hit the open shots and score on the drive a little more this year because the scouting report will be not to leave him open. he's a better scorer from the four because the big guys guarding him are slow to react to him when he sets the screen and fades. the maxiels and myles of the world don't want to go out there with him. we just need izik to become a 30-minute type of player. if that happens, then we will have a serious interchangable pair of forwards. the ideal power forward on the team is justin Johnson. he's 6'8", bulked up to about 230 pounds and has great leaping ability and some nice skills. he's not ready to be a full time player yet. hopefully, a year behind sloan and he will learn. he has to make sure it's all together between the ears. my questions about his work ethic have been answered because he was diligent in the weight room during his redshirt year. he didn't waste his time. i like that. bad boyz for life Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slufanskip Posted July 27, 2003 Share Posted July 27, 2003 thanks for the info pdiddy. I take your post as saying that you would be a yes for shaw at SLU. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
p diddy Posted July 27, 2003 Share Posted July 27, 2003 yes, my vote is already on the record. bad boyz for life Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tseugnekillib Posted July 27, 2003 Share Posted July 27, 2003 you stated that Justin J had "great leaping" ability. Perhaps the added strength has increased his vertical, as I thought he had only average hops last year. I hope your right though. To me, JJ toughness is the question. His jumper within 12 feet is pretty good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davidnark Posted July 27, 2003 Share Posted July 27, 2003 At one of the Billiken Club Meetings, Brad stated that JJ is one of the best athletes on the team and that JJ has the ability to play above the rim. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Major Majerus Posted July 27, 2003 Share Posted July 27, 2003 Sloan played the point in HS. Shaw plays the 5 or 4. I think Sloan was close to top 100 out of HS. He's made a big adjustment, and I think he'll be even better this year - he improves every year. I think Shaw could play as a freshman at the 4 - and be better than Sloan was - just because of his experience at the position. Whatever his true size is, or will be, he will play big for it. Guys that worry too much about inches often can't see the forest for the trees. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quality Is Job 1 Posted July 27, 2003 Share Posted July 27, 2003 >Guys that worry too >much about inches often can't see the forest for the trees. I agree. If Matt Shaw is two inches shorter than the average C-USA power forward, it's really no big deal. Hold your fingers two inches apart. Why is that "distance" a big deal? Jeff Harris was three to four inches shorter than the average power forward (let's just say the average is 6-8), yet he was a very good pf for the Bills. In fact, Harris would routinely guard opposing centers 6-10 to 7-feet. Didn't Harris guard Tim Duncan in the 1995 NCAA Tournament? Before you say, "well look what Duncan did to him," let me point out that Duncan does that to everyone he plays against, whether he's 6-7 or 7-2. It's not about height, it's about talent. SLU was in that game and could have won if not for cold shooting. Then consider Donnie Dobbs. At 6-3 he excelled as a power forward in the Great Midwest, a league that is comparable to, if not better than, overall, than the current C-USA. Then consider Charles Barkley, who is probably about 6-4; he had a great NBA career as a power forward. I believe that what is more at issue than height, within a couple of inches, is body and mindset. At 6-9, Izik Ohanon has the height to be a power forward, but that's not his style of play. If Shaw, even though he's "just" 6-6 or 6-7, has long arms, broad shoulders, and good strength, the fact that he's two inches shorter than 6-8 means nothing. In fact, if you add those two inches, he might have to be a Lonnie Baxter-type of center. I haven't seen Shaw play, but from what I've read here, I say, "go get him, Brad Soderberg!" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted July 28, 2003 Share Posted July 28, 2003 shaw is no where near the athlete that sloan is/was imo. however, shaw plays the power forward position fundamentally correct now and is not a guard in h.s. as sloan was. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted July 28, 2003 Share Posted July 28, 2003 imo shaw and sloan do not compare at all. they are no where near the same type of player except they both play hard. shaw isnt going to guard any 3's or create a shot off a dribble either. matt is a power forward. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thetorch Posted July 28, 2003 Share Posted July 28, 2003 Sloan was a HS pg and was a top 100 player on at least 1 list. Earlier in his career he was always a tenacious defender on the outside, but lost his shot and was just to slow to handle the ball and dribble against college competition like he did in HS. He has big time heart and that is why even though he had never played down low before he has gone there and excelled. With his shot back now he is a credible PF in our league. He is a consummate defender on the blocks and outside, his rebounding and post play leave a little to be desired but he is still learning the position and will be better at those aspects this year. Shaw is totally different from Sloan. Even though he is undersized liek SLoan he has played the post his entire life. He is a decent defender and rebounder and has good offensive skills and a decent short range jumper. He is also an explosive guy on the blocks, I have seen him make dunks in traffic and at an Eagles game he dunked on LaMarcus Aldridge, a top 5 player who is 6'11 and beefy. He is definetely a prototype PF, really nothing like Sloan. I am anxiously awaiting JJ's appearances on the court for SLU. There have been some questioning on the board regarding the space between his ears but like P Diddy said his effort in the weight alone has impressed upon me that will not be an issue. Has SLU ever had a 6'8 true PF with athletic skills, that one panned out as a decent player, and was not forced to play the 5? I can't think of any save for possibly Carlos Skinner, but JJ sounds much more talented than him. He may need some time, which we can give him with Sloan here, but I really see him as being a premier PF in whatever league we happen to be in a couple years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quality Is Job 1 Posted July 28, 2003 Share Posted July 28, 2003 >>Has SLU ever had a 6'8 true PF with athletic skills, that one panned out as a decent player, and was not forced to play the 5? The answer is yes -- Anthony Bonner. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3star_recruit Posted July 28, 2003 Share Posted July 28, 2003 Have to disagree Roy. Matt was throwing down alley-oop dunks in games as a sophomore. He's plenty athletic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thetorch Posted July 28, 2003 Share Posted July 28, 2003 AB played the 5 the majority of the time though. They ran Tadysak, Ivester and Entwhistle out there from time to time but in crunch time AB was always the 5. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davidnark Posted July 28, 2003 Share Posted July 28, 2003 I have never seen Shaw play, but if he is not a better athlete than Sloan than I am skeptical as to whether he is the type of player we need. Sloan is a quick and extremely energetic power forward, but no one has every accussed him of jumping out of the gym or showing any strong or athletic offensive moves. If Shaw is an inch or two shorter than Sloan and less athletic, then I don't see how he could contribute. To be a top 25 program, we will need our power forwards to possess skills along the lines of Anthony Bonner, Jamal Johnson, etc. It sounds like Taj Gray fits this bill, but based upon Roy's remarks Matt Shaw does not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davidnark Posted July 28, 2003 Share Posted July 28, 2003 His senior year AB played the four and The Big Chill played the five. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quality Is Job 1 Posted July 28, 2003 Share Posted July 28, 2003 http://www.highschoolelite.com/2004/shaw.html Following is the above referenced scouting report on Centralia's Matt Shaw, who is listed as a 6'7" power forward: >>The brother of 2001 Centralia graduate, Josh, Matt is a tough post player that is strongly built with good jumping abilities. Why does Roy claim Shaw is not as athletic as Chris Sloan? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted July 28, 2003 Share Posted July 28, 2003 nark, have you ever watched sloan in warmups? sloan is right there with fisher and mclain as far as leaping and flat out speed. sloan is a very good athlete. i did not mean my remark about shaw to mean he is not an athlete. only to point out that sloan isnt being given his just due. shaw is a good athlete as well. as 3 star remarks, i have seen him convert alley oops for a couple of years now. plus, on a team as gifted as the eagles, i cant tell you how many times he gets the rebound and then fills a lane and beats the team down the floor as well to finish the break. shaw is very capable. as far as becoming a power forward for the billikens, i would expect that matt could come in and be as good of a power forward as chris sloan is immediately. my point is that sloan isnt really a power forward. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davidnark Posted July 28, 2003 Share Posted July 28, 2003 If Dennard goes the juco route this upcoming season and both Shaw and Dennard are interested in SLU, then which player would you take? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3star_recruit Posted July 28, 2003 Share Posted July 28, 2003 I would always be worried about Dennard staying eligible. Got to go with the honor roll student from Centralia. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted July 28, 2003 Share Posted July 28, 2003 i have never seen dennard play, but from what i have been told, he is stronger and even more athletic. thus i would admittedly take dennard. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted July 28, 2003 Share Posted July 28, 2003 3 star, that is a great point that hasnt been approached enough. makes you think. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SLU Fan Posted July 28, 2003 Share Posted July 28, 2003 I have seen Matt Shaw play about three times now, against quality competition. He catches your eye with how focused he is on the court.I have never seen him not hustle on each and every play. IMO, he is very athletic, runs the court extremely well, has hops and anticipates the ball in rebounding very well. His shot from 10 - 12 feet in is deadly. If he were 6'8", I have no doubt that we would not be in the running for his services. Would I offer him a scholarship at this time? Yes I would based on what I have seen. He is and will be a credit to each and every uniform and program that he is a part of. Now, that being said, I have not seen Taj Gray or any of the other prospects that the Billikens are looking at for the 4 position. I have to trust Brad's judgment as to who he sees will best fit that position. For all we know he may be looking at a foreign player or players as well for that slot. The fact that he is still considering Shaw this deep into the recruiting period indicates that he does see a serious prospect here. I have heard a rumor that Shaw's brother, who plays for Rolla I believe, grew two inches his senior year in high school. If that is true then who is to say that Matt couldn't do the same. Either way, it will be a tough decision for our coaching staff, since he is well known by so many of us and is a "local" kid to boot. It seems that we need to recruit one or two more from this class locally to remain a viable force in this area. Hope it works out for Matt and the Billikens. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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