thetorch Posted June 13, 2003 Share Posted June 13, 2003 Brown was a good athlete for a college big man. He could run the floor and was strong. He couldn't jump outta the gym but not many guys can who are 6'9 265 and they don't have to. I think he lacked basketball skills, footwork and shooting are not athletic abilities per se, you have to work at basketball to get good at those things, he just didn't have the agility and the ability to be a good offensive player. Kenny is being slightly overrated I believe. He was good at clutch and grab in the post, strong and not afraid to mix it up. He really was not a good rebounder, he was usually out of position. He was not an extraordinary CUSA big man and can be replaced. If frericks is willing to mix it up like Kenny does, then he will be a much better player. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thetorch Posted June 13, 2003 Share Posted June 13, 2003 Sloan will be starting and get heavy minutes. IO will be the top player on the team this year. He can do it all on the offensive end, pass, penetrate, shoot from the outside, finish on the drive and he has a bevy of post moves and knows how to use them. I think a few games into the season Brad will just let Izik roll with it and we will go from there. Izik I guarantee will score 15 a game with 5 or 6 boards and 3 or 4 assists. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NashvilleBilliken Posted June 13, 2003 Share Posted June 13, 2003 "Izik I guarantee will score 15 a game with 5 or 6 boards and 3 or 4 assists." Thats a hell of a guarantee....I sure hope your right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
former_d1 Posted June 13, 2003 Share Posted June 13, 2003 I was thinking the samething. With the size he had all chris braun had to do was get mean. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjray Posted June 14, 2003 Share Posted June 14, 2003 >>i used to also be a big beleiver in the overall talent of the entire team concept. then we had the larry hughes team. all we lost was hughes, plus cranford and love came in, i thought for sure the team would be at least as good. we sucked. horrible team. i.e. the importance of the leaders/go to guy.<< Generally agree this is what happened; however, an important fact is missing--J. Love was injured over the summer before joining the team (back injury), did not practice with the team at all in the fall, missed the first 5 games or so of the season and was much less than 100% for the rest of the year. Very difficult to walk in mid-year and become the man. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill_Ken R Posted June 14, 2003 Share Posted June 14, 2003 I really appreciate you 3Star. You are extremely well informed and a paragon of logical thought. Thanks for sharing you insight. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted June 14, 2003 Share Posted June 14, 2003 jj, my point was that one would think a team that only lost one player and had the record it did in hughes season would be far better than what it was the next. i personally believed that baniak would pick up the offensive slack and become the man and whatever love and cranford would contribute would be gravy. i was not expecting love to be anything of a "go to" guy. of course the following season, justin showed the world he was indeed that man. but i would have thought that team would have been better than what it turned out to be. thus, the realization as to the value of larry hughes. i am in no way saying marque is the equal of larry hughes, but he was huge to his team. btw folks, i got an e-mail from chris monter today about marque. he said he will not get drafted. he was an average point guard and had a below average shot. for those who dont know, chris monter is the foremost authority on the nba draft in all the land. he routinely year in and year out almost predicts the draft to a man. normally missing only one or two selections in the first round at the most. 3 years ago he predicted every pick correctly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SluSignGuy Posted June 14, 2003 Share Posted June 14, 2003 Roy- Man, I am sorry for the lack of power. Mine was out from about 5pm Tuesday to 6pm Wednesday. Thank god I was out (like out doing things) until Midnight, or I would have died of boredom. Although it did allow for me to be productive. My room is the cleanest it has been in a few years Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted June 14, 2003 Share Posted June 14, 2003 the only statements i dont necessarily believe in YET, is first the quality of clarke, morris and bryant. and the one i definitely dont buy into yet is the ability of fericks and the other two bigs being anything but big. i do not believe they will be the athlete that kenny brown was. again, i am envisioning a gaggle of chris heinrichs. i hope i am dead wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted June 14, 2003 Share Posted June 14, 2003 i'm not sure we were watching the same kenny brown. he got out on the break and finished with slams more than any center the billikens have had since bonner. and he has had the athleticism to not only slam home rebounds consistently but to also stay up with the likes of the best centers in the league. he was a far better athlete than you are giving him credit for. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davidnark Posted June 14, 2003 Share Posted June 14, 2003 Kenny relied upon strength and positioning, not athleticism, when he played defense. It doesn't take much athleticsm to dunk the ball when you are 6'10", so his number of dunks are a poor indicator of his athleticsm. Athleticsm is typically judged by leaping ability, quickness, and speed. Kenny was below average in the first two categories and average in the third. Even Coach Brad has stated that Kenny has athletic limitations. What player did you guys watch the last two seasons? I appreciated Kenny's defensive efforts, but he had many issues on the other side of the ball. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davidnark Posted June 14, 2003 Share Posted June 14, 2003 Roy, this is not intended as a criticism, but I am surprised as to how high you regard Kenny Brown and how little you expect from the three new big men. I was relatively pleased by the three front court signings, and I am expecting good--not necessarily great--things from each of them. I believe 3 Star shares my feelings. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjray Posted June 14, 2003 Share Posted June 14, 2003 I thought your point was that there was such a large drop off from the '97-'98 team (with Hughes) to the '98-'99 team (with Love) and this is going to be analogous to what is going to happen this year--'02-'03 team (with Marque) versus '03-'04 team (with Bryant). I was also disappointed with the '98-'99 team and the failure of Baniak to step up to take a larger role (espcially being a DeSmet alum); however, I think this disaster is more a reflection of those players and does not necessarily give us great insight into our Billiken team of '03-'04. Bryant has practiced with the team for an entire year, has D1 experience and, god willing, shall be healthy for the start of the season--all of these factors having been absent with J. Love in '98. Replacing Marque is not the same as replacing Hughes IMHO. Other than Love, the only addition was Tatum in the second half of the '98-'99 season (if memory serves me correctly). We are adding Bryant, Morris, Frericks, Justin Johnson, Ian, and Husak this time around. Also, none of the great freshman class from '97 got better in their sophmore years (Baniak regressed without Hughes to feed off of). I truly believe Drejaj and Izik Ohananon will get better this year. Izik will be stronger and more aclimated to USA D1 ball and Drejaj strikes me as a worker (I am sure the staff has pointed out to him that the main weakness in his game is the lack of consistency with his outside shot and he will be in the gym this summer pumping shots). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted June 14, 2003 Share Posted June 14, 2003 imo what kenny brown did last year defensively was as much to do with our success last year as the offensive herorics of marque. kenny defensively was spectacular. secondly, consider the fact that normally he had a sg/sf playing next to him to be his inside assistant makes it even more amazing. the guy was a flat out stud last year doing his job in every aspect EXCEPT scoring. as to our three incoming bigs, i dont know how anyone can be excited about anything about them except the fact they are big. they were relatively not recruited by top programs, they did not have off the chart statistics, they played in competition that doesnt normally produce top players. right now my expectations are those of heinrich. that said, i have said on a number of occassions that heinrich would have been far more effective in soderberg's style of play. i think we loaded up the inside with role players. maybe, the greek kid can turn into something, but i will be shocked if the others do. however, few of the "difference maker" foreign players are interested in going to college. most that are top notch players head straight to the pros. if the greek matches izik that would be great. that said, you have to admit that izik while we all recognize his potential, hasnt tore down the house yet either. i just think we should have gotten at least one player of the three that was a sure thing impact player. maybe one of them will rise to the occasion, but right now i dont expect any of the three to average double figures in scoring or rebounding. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted June 14, 2003 Share Posted June 14, 2003 for being at best average athletically, he consistently outplayed some of the best players in the conference game in and game out. to beat players down the floor consistently like kenny did showed he had speed imo. i think kenny's problem is he didnt know how to play basketball. that sounds like an amazing statement considering he was a senior in college last year, but my observations sure saw a lot of flawed technique in his footwork, catching the ball and positioning. i understand kenny was an overweight football player in high school. probably played basketball for something to do and wasnt taught how to play the typical high school coach is a past guard himself and is clueless in teaching post moves. being kenny was primarily a football player, he probably didnt hit the summer camps or play summer ball where he might have learned something. next, he headed to juco where there are about 6 actual basketball teachers in the whole juco world that can show a player how to actually play the game. heck, he probably learned more about basketball last year playing for brad than he did in the rest of his life combined. kenny has athleticism and heart. what he lacked was basketball skills that went undeveloped. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3star_recruit Posted June 14, 2003 Share Posted June 14, 2003 "they were relatively not recruited by top programs, they did not have off the chart statistics, they played in competition that doesnt normally produce top players." Kenny's Juco profile: First-team All-Conference as a sophomore when he averaged 11.9 ppg, 8.0 rpg and 1.9 bpg while shooting 57.3 percent from the floor for the Reivers Frericks Juco profile: Averaged 10.4 points and 7.8 rebounds per game at Chipola. He shot 58 percent from the field and 60 percent from the free throw line. Frericks was named All-Conference and earned a berth on the Region VIII All-Tournament team. I'm really not seeing a big difference here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Basketbill Posted June 14, 2003 Share Posted June 14, 2003 What got me was the horrible coffee I made and drank.....pretty chewy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mobile-iken Posted June 16, 2003 Share Posted June 16, 2003 You guys are correct, we do need to replace heart...Heart is important and I believe that will take care of itself. The most important thing is talent and athleticism and we have a lot of both coming in. Whoever thinks this upcoming season won't be as good as the last...Very premature and very short sighted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mobile-iken Posted June 16, 2003 Share Posted June 16, 2003 "Izik hasn't torn dow the house yet" No Roy, he hasn't...He has played what 20 collegiate games??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted June 16, 2003 Share Posted June 16, 2003 bigmac, my point is that those that are extremely optimistic about our upcoming season are obviously expecting big production from our inside players and i feel that none of them have done anything in their past to warrant that expectation. i totally agree that izik hasnt had a lot of games under his belt, but that is just another example of a player we are hoping turns out well but we dont have a lot to base that hope on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davidnark Posted June 16, 2003 Share Posted June 16, 2003 I can't speak for eveyone who has a good feeling about this upcoming season, but I am expecting improved production from our front court. Whether it is average, good, or great remains to be seen, but I expect it to be improved in any event. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mobile-iken Posted June 16, 2003 Share Posted June 16, 2003 I second that Davidnark! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted June 17, 2003 Share Posted June 17, 2003 bigmac said, "Whoever thinks this upcoming season won't be as good as the last...Very premature and very short sighted" that statement can work the other way as well. to assume it will be better without seeing what we really have especially since all of our new players are relatively unknowns, is just as pre-mature and unrealistic. i havent said the team will be worse. all i have said is i want to see who really will replace our two best players from last year, marque perry and kenny brown. by dec 1 i will be happy to stick my neck out one way or the other, but i am not impressed with our inside players press releases at this point. i say they sound like a bunch of heinrich's to me. i hope i am so wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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