Billinikens Posted February 14, 2006 Share Posted February 14, 2006 I thought Brad made a great point near the end talking about the inability to play TL and DP at the same time, and how since TL fills up the stat sheet, how that hurts DP's ability to get minutes. I love the quickness and speed possibilities he brings to the floor, but that point is very well made. I thought he skirted the JJ issue which has been on everyone's tongue but I missed the first fifteen minutes or so, please fill in if I missed it. Sounds like a lot of people are all over the up-tempo thing and I thought my paragraph above summarized some of the reason we don't do it more. However, I still don't understand why we can't outlet quickly and push it up the floor to at least explore transition opportunities. Roy Williams' teams always push the ball effectively without it being just a wild end to end free for all. Many have suggested this is a PF position b/c we need to crash the glass with our smaller guys instead of releasing. Probably true, which brings us back to the JJ question. It seems our thoughts are circular anymore. Any other evaluations or inputs on JJ comments? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schasz Posted February 14, 2006 Share Posted February 14, 2006 The other point he made about Tommie and Dwayne being in the game at the same time is other teams immediately get in a zone because they know neither one of these players are good outside shooters, and he feels that really stiffles the team in their half court offense. You were right about the folks seeming to get on him about the slow down offense and how that would affect recruiting better players, etc. What I heard I enjoyed and he did skirt the JJ thing completely...JJ does not have a prayer of getting any meaningful minutes. We better either recuit a 4 or hope Obi really comes on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billinikens Posted February 14, 2006 Author Share Posted February 14, 2006 >The other point he made about Tommie and Dwayne being in the >game at the same time is other teams immediately get in a >zone because they know neither one of these players are good >outside shooters, and he feels that really stiffles the team >in their half court offense. Correct. I forgot to mention that angle. This stifles both DP and TL's penetration game (which is the extent of their offensive skills right now outside of TL's offensive rebounding). It also hurts IV's room to maneuver. I think we all knew that but it was a good refresher on why we don't see our best "up-tempo" five on the floor together very often. It stifles the half-court and that's where most baskets come from. Any other thoughts? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bay Area Billiken Posted February 14, 2006 Share Posted February 14, 2006 If JJ has no prayer of getting any minutes, then how are we going to stop being overpowered by opposition athletic PF's? Perhaps Newborne can help some on defense, but what about his offense? Temple will be a handful Saturday night. And quite frankly, this poster is not looking past woeful Duquesne in a virtually empty road venue on Wed. night. Unless something changes, that "crowd" will be like an UMSL gathering. Spoon's answer would be to pressure and harass the opponent's guards at least starting at half court to keep the opponent's bigs from getting the ball. But Coach Soderberg won't do that either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schasz Posted February 14, 2006 Share Posted February 14, 2006 I had already mentioned about the talented Spoon teams effectively using the trap to get steals and transition baskets. Those teams did shoot from beyond the arc damn good too...this team cannot even compare. You have got to feel for a kid like Dwayne who corrct me if I am wrong had a darn good shot in HS, but just cannot seem to find it here in D-1 college ball. He does so many things well if he could just find his shot. I was hoping that he would be a Tim Smith clone the little PG at East TN State, but that has not happened yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bay Area Billiken Posted February 14, 2006 Share Posted February 14, 2006 DP's only real problem is shooting. He is in a slump this year. Now he is passing up open shots. I hope he and TL can work on their jump shots this summer because they, along with KL, could really be a dynamite combination. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pakapablo Posted February 14, 2006 Share Posted February 14, 2006 DP's shooting slump extends to last season. This means he has been in a shooting slump for his entire career so far. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GOSLU68 Posted February 14, 2006 Share Posted February 14, 2006 DP has to bulk up to shoot a longer range three. He looks like he is afraid that he can't get off quick enough driving or on the jumper. He has no evasive skills. Last year he had better leaping ability. Speed alone does not get it. I did not here anyone mention TL left hand with two fingers splinted. His shooting was not hurt much but left handed dribbling was minimized. When I saw him jam it early in the game I thought we would see DB or DP play more. DB had some lost minutes and added a little offensive threat. Did anyone else notice the lack of motion when our guards looked like they were stationed on the three arc waiting like Darren Clarke for the cross court pass. What caused our turnovers? Forcing passes or fumbles or what? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted February 14, 2006 Share Posted February 14, 2006 your posts yesterday about spoon and his pressure front defense intrigued me. so i checked the previous years stats to see what kind of offense his proactive pressure man to man created. only two season did spoon average over 70 ppg. those being claggett/highmark/h jr/sr years. even hughes year we only averaged 67 ppg. 3 of the 7 seasons spoon was actually under 500 and a spoon team (96-97) actually had the lower ppg of spoon, romar and soderberg. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted February 14, 2006 Share Posted February 14, 2006 not true except for the claggett era. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bay Area Billiken Posted February 14, 2006 Share Posted February 14, 2006 As I recall, the pressure the opposition guards away from the basket defense was used during the Claggett, Highmark, and Walden NCAA years. Its primary goal was to compensate for SLU's weakness and lack of height at the bigs, basically to keep the opponent's bigs from getting the ball. As a by product, turnovers and fast breaks were created for the offense. The Larry Hughes SLU team had a big and tall front line, albeit a young one, with two freshmen Matt Baniak and Chris Heinrich to go with Ryan Luechtefeld. The thing about Spoon is that although he had some sub-.500 years, he also had 3 NCAA Tournament teams, two of which made it to the second round. He was a very good game bench coach. And he was willing to adapt: he said that he was smart enough to get out of Larry Hughes' way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GMan Alum Posted February 14, 2006 Share Posted February 14, 2006 Spoon was the bench coach I've seen in this area. Although this statement was not originally about Spoon, he definitely was a coach "that could take his'n and beat your'n, or take your'n and beat his'n." I love Brad, but he is not in Spoon's class. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted February 14, 2006 Share Posted February 14, 2006 i never said brad was better than spoon. i just wanted to point out that real "spoonball" was no more potent than "bradball" except for the two years of claggett/highmark/h. imo, spoon indeed was a better floor coach. i used to brag that 99% of the time, if the billikens were even at half (or reasonably close) they were going to win the game because spoon would make the moves to win the game. imo, he was the best game and practice coach we have ever had. however, by the time he got to st louis, he was tired of recruiting and unfortunately great coaches are great game coaches, practice coaches and recruiters. without all three you cant get to the top. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MusicCityBilliken Posted February 14, 2006 Share Posted February 14, 2006 I maybe dead wrong on this because I don't live in St. Louis. One of the raps on Brad is that he is shy about PR. I think we would all agree that when Spoon was hear that was not a problem. Heck, Spoon seemed to be everywhere with the restaurant to hawking pickles and Nextel cell phones. In fact, Spoon maybe over did the PR thing and it became more about promoting Spoon over the players and SLU. Do folks think, if Spoon was still here, we be a lot closer on opening our new arena then we are now? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Box and Won Posted February 14, 2006 Share Posted February 14, 2006 Yes - he raised the profile of Billiken basketball, both on and off the court. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GMan Alum Posted February 14, 2006 Share Posted February 14, 2006 You are right on about Spoon. The obvious knock when he was here was his lack of effort in recruiting. Plus, SLU never had a plan B if we didn't get the kid we were after. Back then 70 points and a win got us ticket holders a freebie at Chevy's and you are right, we didn't get that very often. Unfortunately, now we can't even get to 60 very often, although this past weekend I took advantage of the Xavier win at Pasta House. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted February 14, 2006 Share Posted February 14, 2006 actually, i think brad is very good in front of people at events. he isnt the lounge act that spoon was, but he is a good public speaker. what brad might not be as good at is the informal mingling thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheeseman Posted February 14, 2006 Share Posted February 14, 2006 I believe if Spoon was here we would be closer to the full funds being raised for the arena. In fact, Spoon was the one who first floated the idea but could not get the admin. to buy in. One of the reasons he retired. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
willie Posted February 14, 2006 Share Posted February 14, 2006 I always thought Spoon quit because he had to pay for his icecream. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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