attendance

[mws26]

Schasz, do mean mitch in the morning? Whining is all that guy does. UW is sold out all the time now that Romar has them rolling. Pretty sure they could fill a bigger venue at this point.

[davidnark]

I'm not privy to any inside arena information, but it seems to me that a 9,500 seat arena that contained athletic offices and a practice gym would be much more beneficial to the athletic program than a 13,000 seat arena without offices and practice facilities. Of course I am assuming that the costs of each proposal would be roughly equivalent.

[billiken_roy]

i agree davidnark. sure the cost will likely be the same or even more, but to give up the 3k in seating that would have accommodated the johnny come lately casual fan that no one could ever really count on for a more functional "backroom" that will undoubtely help the program far more with usefulness and a huge recruiting advantage, is a no brainer imo.

[Billiken Rich]

You are all assuming that the Billikens will never be successful enough to draw more than we do now (after a 9 win season.) I don't see the attraction of a smaller arena. I guess I've just been spoiled by the crowds in the past. Going through the Arena to Keil debacle and then seeing how we faired with the Family arena ticket distribution I'm not thrilled with the future seating possibilities in the Biondidome. Biondidome sounds too grandiose come to think of it. Make that the Playtex Playcrib. Instant sponsorship possiblities right there..........

[davidnark]

about a state-of-the-art 9-10,000 seat arena that could quickly become a "pit" with a great collegiate atmosphere and a big home court advantage.

There is something sad about the echos you hear in an oversized arena.

[Billiken Rich]

about watching a basketball game through a backboard.

There is also something sad about not having room to grow. Many of the schools that seem to thrive with tiny little arenas have football stadiums that can fit the populations of medium sized towns. Why is that? Why do you worry about echo's in the new arena? That, to me, speaks to the fact that Billiken fans are quite sure that we will never be truely successful. It's sad.

[huzzah]

The size of the on campus arena and success of the bb program are not related. Kansas has a small arena. Its modern day success is from the Larry Brown era on. The size of their arena is constant. I paid $65 to see a Ks vs Nebraska game. The size of Indiana's arena is 18,000+ and I paid $75 to see an Indiana vs Michigan game. The success of the programs depends on quality of coaching as measured by wins. What we do see is that ticket prices, scalped and charged are a function of supply and demand. If demand is great enough, as in the Bob Knight era at Bloomington, ticket prices rise. What we have in St. Louis is a program on the rise and spurred by local talent, and a demand that is increasing, as indicated by this years atttendance. If we shrink supply to 10,000 that will bring about an increase in ticket prices, and supply will not accomodate the fan base. The choice is not between 14,000 without training facilities and 10,000 w/ training facilities necesarily. If the 14,000 facility brings in more outside events, revenue increases. Considering we only play about 15 home games per year you need outside events to make the arena viable economically. The answer here lies in whether the potential for additonal income that a 14,000 facility brings in can pay the extra cost for the larger facility. I don't know the answer. Part of the additional cost can be paid for by issuing bonds. Because we are a religious facility, I think the bonds would be tax free and thus desirable. The larger facility, with practice accomodations, will mean more tickets at a lower price and the accomodation of more fans. It will attract larger concerts and shows and bring in more revenue. However, if this has been studied and the difference in size will not attract larger shows, than it may not be a feasible option. The 10,000 seat arena will mean higher ticket prices, but with the HDTV standard becoming the norm in the future the school can sell a TV package and accomodate the surplus of fans. However, I find a comaraderie at the games that cannot be achieved elsewhere. Therefore even w/ tech advances, game attendance is desirable from my perspective. The basic issue I am bringing up here is this. Schools possess larger endowments, tuition has increased at a rate much higher than inflation, and enrollment has increased because of government support of tuition aid. Schools seem focused, to the exclusion of everything else, on profit. As pointed out in a recent Wall Street Journal article large donors are becoming more reluctant to give because of the large endowments schools are accumulating and not using. The local arena may be a play out of a national phenomenon and a disturbing trend.

[billiken_roy]

rich, i dont think we are saying it isnt possible to return to the glory days of yesteryear, but rather the bandwagoners, who are not the folks to count on revenuewise would be out at the expense of creating a better atmosphere for our program to utlize in recruiting. that might actually lead to a more consistent high winning percentage that would then enable on occasion to play high profile games that the casual fan wants to take advantage of at the savvis or the dome. however that same fan will likely not come the kennesaw state game at the biondi dome.

[Cowboy]

Just to elaborate on one point, the Allen Fieldhouse has capacity of over 16,000, not sure I would call that small.

[huzzah]

I am sorry, but I think it is smaller. Anyway I will try to look up. I recalled it as being around 12,000.

[huzzah]

You are correct. It is 16,000+, so it is an example of a big arena and it can then be contrasted w/ the before mentioned small arenas as showing arena size and program success are not related. Thank you for the comment.

[Billiken Rich]

With a consistantly winning team we can expand our season ticket base to at least 13,000 Will they all come to see Kennesaw? Probably not. Will the place still rock with 10000 there? Yep.

[billiken_roy]

rich, the community has proven (both general and businesswise) that it is not going to get behind the program to the degree we need to have both (i.e. big arena and the offices and practice facility).

imo, the offices and practice facility being a part of the facility is major and needed more than the 3,500 extra seats for the bandwagon casual fan that wants to come see us play adam morrison not necessarily the billikens.

when that scenario comes up, why not let the season tix holders have that seat for the same regular price and let's gouge the johnny come lately for a higher per game price and rent the savvis and let all the pretend fans come out. we'll all have a grand old time still and likely make the same revenue for the program.

[Schasz]

That smaller seating capacity means the arena will also house the practice facility and coaches offices? I'm kind of an opinion that is just an assumption that needs to be clarified with the SLU brass.

[billiken_roy]

just rumor that we are all kicking around and discussing why's and why not's.

[Billiken Rich]

I'll take the extra seats over a practice floor in the same building. The coaches offices ought to be in the new building but a separate practice floor ought to be below personal beer taps for each seat in the priority level. (In other words I think its goofy to want one)

[Iggy]

Roy, it's the high profile game that we need our own on-campus pit the most. I'd hate to play the tough teams at the Saavis or the Dome. I want them to have to come to our packed, small hostile building. That's the real home court advantage.

[billiken_roy]

iggy, eventually we will be able to do that, but wanna bet that if we dont give them such a venue that will maximize revenues that will likely be split far different than a normal home game that a dome or savvis venue provides isnt the only way we get those types of teams to visit?

right now roy williams and mark few schedule us. in a couple of years i bet they think twice without asking what's in it for us?

now once we reach the status of a gonzaga reputation, then we will have the ability to call the shots more readily.

[slufanskip]

I'm with Rich ... I think we will be able to fill the 13k arena if we are good. 3k x $15. per ticket for even 10 games a year is $450k. That is alot of money.

The place isn't going to be loud unless many of our fans get a change of attitude ....

Official Billikens.com sponsor of H. Waldman

[cheeseman]

For every seat they take out the cost of each seat left will be more. Those of you thinking that a smaller arena would be good are wrong for the follwing reasons: 1. Ticket costs will be higher - they have to raise enough money from the men's team to cover the AD budget 2. The casual fans some of you make fun of are the ones who will cause the city to have a buzz about the team if we are winning - it they can not ever get a ticket then we may simply become a novelty to a small group of us 3. The smaller the arena the smaller the program looks - MU plays in a 15k arena that was just built a year ago - I know they are having trouble drawing but if that team ever gets righted then the extra seats will be a real plus for PR.

[Billiken Rich]

a 13-15000 seat arena is a heck of a lot louder and more intimidating than 10000 in a 22000+ seat arena.

[Box and Won]

I'm not convinced that we will be able to fill a place that big on a regular basis though. 10k will leave about 2,500 seats for the more casual fans, which is fine. If it's good enough for XU, it's certainly good enough for us.

[Billiken Rich]

You "go small" types amuse me. You look at the bigger crowds of the Spoon era the same way I look at the abominable snowman. We are talking about the last decade not legend.

If we can get Whitey Herzog out to see us play Gonzaga in a year where we are a .500 team, we can easily woo back part of the crowd we lost when the clouds of mediocrity gathered.

I'm not ready to give up that easily. If we could fill Savvis and the old arena for games with in the last ten or so years, we can fill an already SMALLER on campus arena.

If you don't think we can fill a bigger on campus arena, you don't think we are going to be a top 50 program, in my honest opinion.

[cheeseman]

First of all we need to not want to be like others but to aspire to do better. Second, the extra revenue from the 3000 seats will spread the support broader in the community - such as free tickets or reduced for kids, groups, etc. How do you build a following when you can not start with young kids. The other thing is those who keep talking about the aging fan base are missing something. All schools have an aging fan base - those are the people who have the money and are willing to give it. 27 years ago when I started buying season tickets there was an aging fan base then - now I am part of the aging fan base. There is always a turn over of some kind taking place. Not to worry - younger people will fill the void - always have.

[Box and Won]

I think aspiring to match XU's success is an admirable goal, personally. We haven't been to the tournament since 2000, and we had to win the conference tournament just to do that. They've managed to achieve a level of success that we can only dream about right now, and they were able to do it before their new arena was built.

I hope you guys are right and I'm wrong, but I just don't want to rely too much on the fickle nature of the average St. Louis sports fan to fill seats. I want our home court to actually create a home court advantage and not be Savvis Center West. Unless we can duplicate the success of a program like Xavier, we're going to have a half-full new arena that won't be too much better than a one-third full Savvis.