Is SLU recruiting Leon Powell, Bobby Hill?

[VTIME]

Vashon is the only powerhouse in Missouri thats always ranked top 10 nationally. Why doesnt Soderberg jump at the chance to recruit these players. In his tenure he was only able to sign Dwayne Polk. He lost just let two 6'4 guards get away in Johnny Hill and Kenny Daniels. Why does he go after the Darren Clarke's and Ian Voyoukas' of the world instead of talented local players. I'd rather lose with players I've heard of before instead of no names from elsewhere. No more Tom Frericks. He needs to sign the 6'6 combo guard Bobby Hill from Vashon in his 2006 class. I dont see him signing 5'10 pg James Washington because he has Polk, Lisch, and Liddell. God I hope he gets Leon Powell. Vashon high school is around the corner from SLU he needs to get on this guy before his name gets too big and the Arizona's and Cincinnati's start coming after him. The 6'7 forward with extremely long arms and outstanding leaping ability needs to be courted immediately. He's only a soph. Drive five minutes down the road and start grinding SLU into his head Soderberg. Leon Powell is a program changer. He's a legit 6'7 and still growing and the sky is the limit. More potential than the more heralded Alex Tyus. Nice three point stroke. He plans on moving to small forward next year with fellow soph 6'8 Ben Adams, and 6'7 Raymond Harrell manning the inside positions.

[slufanskip]

Who would he have recruited from Vashon instead of Ian and Darren? I would bet he is recruiting Powell ...

Clearly you are a Vashon fan ... SLU won't be Vashon Sr.

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[cheeseman]

First of all, Floyd has not been a big fan of SLU for whatever the reason(s). Second, for Brad to get Dwayne, he had to go directly to the parents and rumor has it that Floyd was not very happy. Now, all that being said, Floyd has cooled on Quinn and is at least on the surface open to SLU but probably still not a big supporter. Brad is looking at all of the talent at Vashon but he clearly has to recruit by position needs.

[VTIME]

Instead of Darren Clarke, how about Donny Jackson? Instead of Ian, what about Lorenzo Gordon. He just made first team all-conference in the MVC and was named MVC Newcomer of the Year. How about 6'10 Curtis Muse. Please tell me he's on Bobby Hill closely. He can play all wing positions, and was the backup pg on SLU's 31-0 season which allowed Dwayne Polk to remain at sg when starting pg James Washington came out of the game. James Washington is also in the class of 2006. SLU has the chance to have th 6'5 Liddell and 6'6 Bobby Hill in the same backcourt, both very experienced and interchangeable at the pg position.

[SLU_Nick]

SLU had a 31-0 season? man we must have been good

[VTIME]

SLU doesnt have to recruit by position, they just need to recruit quality ball players. Prominent programs have succeeded in using 4 guard lineups including Michigan State this year, Arizona(04')

Kansas(00') Mizzou(99-01). If Mizzou can land quality recruits like Bobby Hill and Leon Powell over the next two years, they will have the athletes to compete in the A-10. They should have a pipeline with Vashon and Irons doesnt have a problem with SLU. He doesnt feel slighted because he was passed over for the positon. He didnt have a problem with Kern or Polk signing. Bobby Hill has been updated to a 3 star prospect on theinsiders.com and Leon Powell currently has a 2 star ranking. I'm not a biased Vashon fan. I just know with that trio of sophomores they have 6'8 Ben Adams, 6'7 Raymond Harrell and 6'7 Leon Powell, and SLU desperately needing big man that can play, they have a local basketball factory right down the street. 2007 should be a special recruiting class for SLU if they handle it right. They could easily get all three. They also need to take a flyer on 6-4 guard/forward Sanijay Watts.

[slufanskip]

Every team has to recruit by position. Seriously why don't we just become Vashon U. Hopefully we don't have to play UNC and Tyler.

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[slufanskip]

Vashon always ranked top 10 nationally don't you think that is a bit of an exageration.

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[VTIME]

No, its not an exaggeration and you dont have to recruit by position need when, you recruit by the most talented players. Teams use non-traditional lineups all the time like Michigan State did this year with the 4 guards, how the Phoenix Suns are doing right now, how Depaul used to play Quentin Richardson at pf, how Arizona played Hassan Adams at pf in 2004. How Bryan Russell played pf in college. Guards are the most essential element in college basketball. Guards make you successful, good big men put you over the top. No way SLU should've passed on Lorenzo Gordon. Curtis Muse would've helped too. Do you guys think they will play Liddell at pg next year with Polk at the 2, with Liddell guarding the 2 guard at the defensive end. That's probably their best lineup with Lisch and Meyer fighting it out for the 3 spot.

[slufanskip]

SLU didn't pass on Lorenzo ... he didn't qualify at SLU.

There are 64 NCAA tourney teams a year ... a few exceptions can always be found ... but as a whole you have to recruit to fill needs, you can't just randomly recruit all over the place.

Not only that ... How many successful college basketball players has the V had in the last 15 years? ... Not enough to fill a really good team ... but yet you suggest we recruit almost their entire team? You are clearly a Vashon fan ... nothing wrong with that ... but a dose of reality wouldn't hurt. I wonder why all NBA teams don't draft all SLU players ... hell Larry is doing pretty well

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[slufanskip]

It is a huge exageration ... they are not even close to "always ranked in the top 10 nationally" ... unless you count your own private poll.

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[VTIME]

What do call successful. On the 1988 Vashon team, 9 seniors went D1. I'm not suggesting you recruit the whole team. I'm suggesting they recruit the whole team, just two players, specifically Leon Powell. Bobby Hill would be a great pick up too. Lorenzo Gordon is having a successful career. Jimmy McKinney is having a solid, but unspectacular career. Justin Chambly had a solid career. Johnnie Cooper had a successful career. Andre Aaron is having a solid career. Sean Tunstall had a semi-successful career. Anthony Bonner had a successful career. The reason they havent had successful career is because the best players usually dont qualify, but Bobby Hill second in his class with a 3.88 G.P.A., second only to Vashon backcourt mate James Washington who has a 4.0 G.P.A. The players are starting to grasp the importance of grades and the ACT at Vashon after a long absence. SLU just missed out on 6-4 All-Metro first teamer Johnny Hill who recently signed with SEMO. He wanted to go to SLU so badly, but Soderberg kept holding out the scholarship for a big instead of loading up on guards. Maybe he can get the younger Hill brother in the class of 2006. With Clarke leaving he would've been a nice pickup.

[VTIME]

Vashon is always ranked in the USATODAY.com top 25 poll. They would've been this year's national champions if they hadnt lost in the championship game. They finished the season #7. They finished #in 2002. Their only loss that year was to Lebron James and his SVSM high school basketball team. Not too shabby. And SLU did pass on Lorenzo Gordon. He was looking at SLU when Tommie Liddell decided to go to prep school last spring. SLU was his top choice but Soderberg didnt even know who he was. Way to do your homework Brad. Gordon was a dominant high school player. One of the better bigs to come out of St. Louis in sometime. He signed with Illinois State and the rest is history. That was a pretty amazing 2001 team that had 4 starters sign D1.

C Lorenzo Gordon- Illinois State

PF Nick Kern-SLU

SF-McKinney-Mizzou

SG Polk-SLU

PG Jesse Akins-Overseas

6th man Arnold Britt signed to play football for Mizzou.

[billiken_roy]

i will be surprised if watts is a major division one player. he is the example of a tweener that doesnt appear to have a college position. no knock against him just facts.

we will have 3 scholarships to give with this next class i believe. one is already spoken for with dustin maguire from civic memorical.

if jarod leonard is able to graduate in 2006, i will be surprised if he isnt offered as well. that would leave one more spot and one would think it would go to a true inside player.

it was leaked last year already that brad was all over the younger hill and powell. so rest assured he is pursuing them. whether hill is ahead of leonard for that other wing spot or not is the question.

besides powell, i would hope we pursue lucas o'rear out of the sophomore class. if we look for another guard, i like rob rudy in the sophomore class as well. the fact vashon has two more big guys that will be juniors is very interesting.

[billiken_roy]

how in the world was slu going to recruit muse? you do know about college academic requirements dont you?

as to gordon, again, when we took ian, gordon wasnt academically eligible for division one ball. now if your question is why didnt we take gordon last spring instead of vashon newborne, again, you are showing your lack of ncaa academic knowledge.

to transfer from a juco to a division one college, the student must have sufficient passing credits to not only be on pace to graduate with his/her class, they must also have the right credits to transfer into an existing program major at the target school. it is our understanding that gordon had nowhere near the credits needed to transfer to a slu major.

[billiken_roy]

you have mentioned the mich st lineup a couple of times now. when slu's guards are all 6'5 and about 220 lbs as anderson, brown and tolbert are all, then maybe that makes sense. but when you are talking about 150 lb polk, and 175 lisch and liddell, to throw another lightweight as well is suicide.

i believe that liddell, lisch, and polk will play interchangeably. all are different types of guards but have extensive point guard skills. of the three, imo, polk is the weakest as he has shown imo a lot of raw ability, but seemed to struggle with his basketball iq. he got better as the year went along. danny brown and luke meyer will both play a lot as they showed they are up to the task as well. it wouldnt surprise me to see all 5 average at least 20 minutes a game. and with certain teams, brown and meyer may indeed play pf minutes if the matchup allows.

[billiken_roy]

vtime, just for future reference in your thinking since you obviously dont follow the billikens much, clarke left because he saw he wasnt going to get much p.t. it was pretty obvious he was 7th on the depth chart for next year and sodeberg rarely uses more than 5 guards in a game.

would hill would have been satisfied being 7th guard and sitting? my guess is that semo is about right for him and he will have lots of success at that level. good for him.

[courtside]

ahh....the topic that won't go away year after year. V is ready to roll V is ready to roll....well well well....I would be happy to oblige the proverbial two cents.

Where is the long list of major D I college succcess for V grads??? It isn't there. AB stands out big time...unfortunately more turned out like Melvin Robinson. You are reaching big time if you think Sean Tunstall had a successful college career, as you are reaching with the few others names. The indisputable facts are that V grads do not make it after high school in the college hoops world. There are always exceptions. McKinney is an exception. Hopefully Polk will be too when his career is over, we shall see. In the 1980's, and 1990's and early 2000's, that is a LOT of years, and that list of succesful major D I players is extremely short. Why? Multiple reasons....good high school players doesn't always translate into good college players. Academics is another reason. Anthony Jones was one of the best Vashon players I ever saw, but he was a 6'2 forward and that won't get it done in college.

Players need to be looked at individually regardless of school. I am all for recruiting V kids good enough to play major D I ...and don't have any baggage or problems. I hold this for any kid regardless of any school. Once in a while I do think a school like SLU should take a prop 48 kid, if he is very very good, and has the character to make the grades, and is a positive influence. Dwyane Wade, Andre Miller are recent examples of extremely successful non academic qualifiers their first year, sat out, got adjusted to the college life etc...and both had college gpa's over 3.0.....but you can't take a bunch of them, and have to be careful who you pick. For the most part over the last 20 plus years, the kids at the V, while highly successful high school players, weren't individually good enough for major D I. Happens all the time at many top high school programs.

Finally as far as USA Today polls are concerned...just dig up my past thoughts on them. The short answer is this...Vashon got crushed in the state final this year to a team that wasn't even ranked nationally. That is what I think of high school national polls.

[billiken_roy]

your information is wrong. gordon did not have the credits to go to slu. he was checked out by the staff academically (most college programs the assistants bird dog the recruits first and then bring the head coach into the picture as soon as necessary) and once that was known, there was no reason to pursue him or brad to know him.

if you want to do something about vashon players getting a chance at a higher level, i suggest you get more of the kids to work on the books and score higher on the ACT. they have been their own worst enemies to getting better opportunities.

[slufanskip]

Wait a minute ... I thought they were always ranked in the top 10. They are not even always in the top 25 in the USA today rankings. Come on do some research.

Nick Kern ... ok enough said

Lorenzo Gordon ... doesn't qualify at SLU

another guy is playing football

one guy went to SEMO ... enough said ... he must have had some outstanding offers on the table

I'm through with this discussion ... when you said Brad didn't even know who Lorenzo Gordon was ... you showed your hand

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[thetorch]

Don't forget Kyle Kirk another kid we have offered.

Hill needs to develop better skills away from the basket IMO. I don't buy his athletic abilities being superior to other kids we have offered, like Ghost jr or kirk.

Also the Vs heights on these guys are way overestimated. Johnny and Bobby are not 6'5 or 6'6. More like 6'3 at best 6'4. Leon is a good 6'5 not 6'7 and the other youngsters in the post are no taller than Leon is.

[thetorch]

SEMO is a good choice for Johnny bball and acedemic wise. The V has doen much better in preparing their kids for life after Vashon. Recently the only big screwups have been with Kern, even LoGo and Shelton maneaged to turn things around after a few bumps in the road. SLU had no room for Johnny, we have as much as offered Bobby. It is up to him at this point.

VTIME do you know what Muse is up to? Where is he playing and how he is doing?

[Battlecat455]

I generally agree with your observations regarding V grads. I suppose it depends to some extent on how one defines success. Anthony Jones was a servicable player for Grawer's teams. He wasn't a star, but overall I think his career was successful.

[VTIME]

"thetorch" you said Bobby Hill isnt 6'6 so its obvious you havent seen him in weeks. If you say he needs to work on his game away from the basket, that means didnt realize that he was the starting small forward forcing his older brother Johnny to play more inside than he did. The only year he played inside was his freshman year when Muse was ineligible and hurt. Leon Powell is a legit 6'7. Powell just turned 16 and is still growing. Johnny Hill is 6'4. I just came from the Midwest Showdown which is being played at Vashon and Harris-Stowe State University this weekend. Bobby Hill threw down a nasty left-handed windmill. Check out the Championship game tomorrow http://eteamz.active.com/saintlouisfalconsbball/index.cfm?

I think Hill will have a good career at SEMO, but the younger Hill is a 3 star player and I enjoyed seeing Hill matchup with Maguire earlier this season when Gameface played Gateway Basketball Club. It was a great game that Gateway won by 2. Maguire and Hill both showed they are the real deal. What is so special about Hill is that he had to backup James Washington on that 31-0 undefeated team. Coach made Bobby learn how to play pg so Polk wouldn't have to slide over from the shooting guard spot when Washington came out of the game. He can play 3 positions on the floor well.

And If you go to the USATODAY SUPER 25 you'll see that Vashon finished the season ranked #7 in the nation. I dont know why they are ranked lower that Niagara who they beat head-to-head, but no biggie. http://www.usatoday.com/sports/preps/basketball/super25.htm

[thetorch]

I saw Bobby, Johnny and Leon at the quarterfinal game at UMSL. That was a few weeks ago. I am 6'3, Johnny and Bobby were not taller than I was, Leon was slightly taller than me. They all have of course time to grow but not being accurate on their respective heights does no one any good.