Jimmy Barton- Walkon from DeSmet via Houston Baptist

[thetorch]

i hope it's off season boredom but this is a lot of talk about a walk on, back in the day having a walk on contribute wasn't out of the realm of possibility and often we were shtty enough to need some such input. now it would be major step backwards.

Agreed, a lot of talk about a kid who may or may not walk on. I was puzzled when Barton went to Houston Baptist. He's a good player, small, but would make a solid D-2 player. You are that desperate to play D-1 hoops you go down to Houston Baptist. Seemed like a stretch. Not surprised he left there. Not as good as Eckerle but better than Duff,

It was my understanding that Berry did not like Majerus' coaching style or personality (ie he's soft). He rebuffed us and we cooled on his recruitment. Still would have made a great story to have the grandson of Easy Ed suiting up for us in a fairly large role but Berry made a different choice. Now he can go play for Porter, the coach he liked, go to California or Florida. Rough choice for the kid. I really feel for him.

I don't think we are vilifying Berry. If he was just a local recruit who went to Butler he wouldn't be a big topic. Yeah we lost out on him to an at the time conference rival but still. No one makes posts about Roosevelt Jones, who so far has been a much better player. But Berry had that huge connection. His grandfather is the best player to ever suit up for SLU. If Berry had any kind of career here he'd be almost as revered as his grandfather. Look at the Luechtefelds, always fan favorites and all of them put together don't have the talent of Macauley or Berry. Grandson of HOFer comes to play for HOF coach who is resurrecting the program to former glories. The story writes itself.

Berry chose another path, that of a school that was a conference rival but also took a spot in a conference we wanted into. Had he gone to almost any other school it would have been no big deal, but he chooses Butler. Considering, I believe Berry was criticized far less that what was warranted. Now he comes back after a falling out at Butler, wanting to come home and have SLU welcome him with open arms. This all adds up to being more than a little insulting to the SLU program. I'm sure Crews didn't tell him to take a hike, but I might have. Still he's in a good situation. I'm not going to feel bad for him but i don't hate him either. He missed a great opportunity though.

[brianstl]

Agreed, a lot of talk about a kid who may or may not walk on. I was puzzled when Barton went to Houston Baptist. He's a good player, small, but would make a solid D-2 player. You are that desperate to play D-1 hoops you go down to Houston Baptist. Seemed like a stretch. Not surprised he left there. Not as good as Eckerle but better than Duff,

It was my understanding that Berry did not like Majerus' coaching style or personality (ie he's soft). He rebuffed us and we cooled on his recruitment. Still would have made a great story to have the grandson of Easy Ed suiting up for us in a fairly large role but Berry made a different choice. Now he can go play for Porter, the coach he liked, go to California or Florida. Rough choice for the kid. I really feel for him.

I don't think we are vilifying Berry. If he was just a local recruit who went to Butler he wouldn't be a big topic. Yeah we lost out on him to an at the time conference rival but still. No one makes posts about Roosevelt Jones, who so far has been a much better player. But Berry had that huge connection. His grandfather is the best player to ever suit up for SLU. If Berry had any kind of career here he'd be almost as revered as his grandfather. Look at the Luechtefelds, always fan favorites and all of them put together don't have the talent of Macauley or Berry. Grandson of HOFer comes to play for HOF coach who is resurrecting the program to former glories. The story writes itself.

Berry chose another path, that of a school that was a conference rival but also took a spot in a conference we wanted into. Had he gone to almost any other school it would have been no big deal, but he chooses Butler. Considering, I believe Berry was criticized far less that what was warranted. Now he comes back after a falling out at Butler, wanting to come home and have SLU welcome him with open arms. This all adds up to being more than a little insulting to the SLU program. I'm sure Crews didn't tell him to take a hike, but I might have. Still he's in a good situation. I'm not going to feel bad for him but i don't hate him either. He missed a great opportunity though.

Wanted to address these two points.

First, I think the fact that Ed was his grandfather worked against SLU. Sometimes kids want to get out of a shadow like that.

Second, when he committed to Butler they were not a conference rival. He committed to Butler in Sept. 2011. That was seven months before Butler was even mentioned as a possibility for the A10.

[ACE]

Wanted to address these two points.

First, I think the fact that Ed was his grandfather worked against SLU. Sometimes kids want to get out of a shadow like that.

Second, when he committed to Butler they were not a conference rival. He committed to Butler in Sept. 2011. That was seven months before Butler was even mentioned as a possibility for the A10.

I never understood why he committed so early to Butler. I understand that it can be nice to end the recruiting process, but he did it before the start of his junior year. A lot can change in the world of college basketball in a couple years.

Also working against SLU is the fact that in Sept. 2011, we were just coming off a losing season and had not been to the Dance in a decade. Of course all that would start to change for us in the 2011-12 season. Butler had just come off their big seasons. It seems kids usually go with what they think is the "sure thing," rather than having the faith that they can help build a program. I'm not sure in Sept. 2011, Berry realized SLU was on the verge of something pretty special. Maybe it wouldn't have mattered.

He didn't have any loyalty to us at the time (which I'm fine with), but conversely I'm glad the staff didn't change their recruiting priorities this spring out of some sense of obligation to a relative of a Billiken legend. It's nothing personal. Just business.

[Billiken4life5]

Watched Barton several times and he was an absolutely fantastic high school point guard. Completely controlled the game. Against CBC in the district championship his senior year they pressured him w/ the McCaw kid we recruited for a while and Jordan Barnes who will also go D1 and it didn't even phase him. Can shoot it, great basketball IQ, and good vision. One of those kids who have fantastic high school careers but don't quite have the athleticism/size to play D1. Houston Baptist was actually a last minute offer and he was planning on going D2 until then (Rockhurst I think). Don't see him pushing for minutes next year unless something goes terribly wrong but he'll be a great practice player because he'll quickly pick up on other team's schemes that the scout team simulates.

[Box and Won]

Watched Barton several times and he was an absolutely fantastic high school point guard. Completely controlled the game. Against CBC in the district championship his senior year they pressured him w/ the McCaw kid we recruited for a while and Jordan Barnes who will also go D1 and it didn't even phase him. Can shoot it, great basketball IQ, and good vision. One of those kids who have fantastic high school careers but don't quite have the athleticism/size to play D1. Houston Baptist was actually a last minute offer and he was planning on going D2 until then (Rockhurst I think). Don't see him pushing for minutes next year unless something goes terribly wrong but he'll be a great practice player because he'll quickly pick up on other team's schemes that the scout team simulates.

Do you think he took the Houston Baptist offer with the hopes that a strong performance there would enable him to quickly transfer to a better D1 program? Seems like an odd choice, especially for a Catholic kid.

[Adman]

Agreed, a lot of talk about a kid who may or may not walk on. I was puzzled when Barton went to Houston Baptist. He's a good player, small, but would make a solid D-2 player. You are that desperate to play D-1 hoops you go down to Houston Baptist. Seemed like a stretch. Not surprised he left there. Not as good as Eckerle but better than Duff,

It was my understanding that Berry did not like Majerus' coaching style or personality (ie he's soft). He rebuffed us and we cooled on his recruitment. Still would have made a great story to have the grandson of Easy Ed suiting up for us in a fairly large role but Berry made a different choice. Now he can go play for Porter, the coach he liked, go to California or Florida. Rough choice for the kid. I really feel for him.

I don't think we are vilifying Berry. If he was just a local recruit who went to Butler he wouldn't be a big topic. Yeah we lost out on him to an at the time conference rival but still. No one makes posts about Roosevelt Jones, who so far has been a much better player. But Berry had that huge connection. His grandfather is the best player to ever suit up for SLU. If Berry had any kind of career here he'd be almost as revered as his grandfather. Look at the Luechtefelds, always fan favorites and all of them put together don't have the talent of Macauley or Berry. Grandson of HOFer comes to play for HOF coach who is resurrecting the program to former glories. The story writes itself.

Berry chose another path, that of a school that was a conference rival but also took a spot in a conference we wanted into. Had he gone to almost any other school it would have been no big deal, but he chooses Butler. Considering, I believe Berry was criticized far less that what was warranted. Now he comes back after a falling out at Butler, wanting to come home and have SLU welcome him with open arms. This all adds up to being more than a little insulting to the SLU program. I'm sure Crews didn't tell him to take a hike, but I might have. Still he's in a good situation. I'm not going to feel bad for him but i don't hate him either. He missed a great opportunity though.

I agree with most everything you said here, torch.

One option I haven't seen mentioned is for NB to join the Bills under an academic scholly as I recall Paul Eckerle did for at least a year or two. Now I'm not sure NB has the academic creds to pass the NCAA hurdles required - though educated guess is that he does. Possible that an academic scholly wouldn't have been a full ride and the family would save some $$ by taking the full ride at Loyola, FL or CA. But if Nolan thought he could compete for playing time against the Bills' recruits (rather than dropping to lower Div 1 schools,) and had sincere interest, if I were Jim Crews, it's an area I would have explored ... and wonder if it was.

[doowop]

Easy Ed is not the "best" player to suit up for the Billikens. He would have told you that. In a conversation with him in 1969 when talking about the Sumner high team that had Harry Rogers, David Brent, Marshall Rogers, and William Westfall, he told me he would not have been able to make that team. Harry later played for SLU. Ed is the most popular and maybe most well known Billiken, but he is not the best to play.

[NH]

Easy Ed is not the "best" player to suit up for the Billikens. He would have told you that. In a conversation with him in 1969 when talking about the Sumner high team that had Harry Rogers, David Brent, Marshall Rogers, and William Westfall, he told me he would not have been able to make that team. Harry later played for SLU. Ed is the most popular and maybe most well known Billiken, but he is not the best to play.

Part of that is just the nature of cross-generational comparisons. If Dwight Howard played in the 1950s he would dominate the league. Hell, Willie Reed might even dominate the league.

Easy Ed had an outstanding career compared to his peers. And that's generally the way most people compare cross-generational players: how they did relative to their peers.

[Iggy]

Easy Ed is not the "best" player to suit up for the Billikens. He would have told you that. In a conversation with him in 1969 when talking about the Sumner high team that had Harry Rogers, David Brent, Marshall Rogers, and William Westfall, he told me he would not have been able to make that team. Harry later played for SLU. Ed is the most popular and maybe most well known Billiken, but he is not the best to play.

Blasphemy!

[slu72]

Easy Ed is not the "best" player to suit up for the Billikens. He would have told you that. In a conversation with him in 1969 when talking about the Sumner high team that had Harry Rogers, David Brent, Marshall Rogers, and William Westfall, he told me he would not have been able to make that team. Harry later played for SLU. Ed is the most popular and maybe most well known Billiken, but he is not the best to play.

Harry R was one of the best I've seen in a Bills uni. If we could have landed Brent who was a year behind him, we would have been a powerhouse in the old MVC. Unfortunately, Brent chose Jacksonville to be the next Artis Gilmore. Think he went pro and after one year and flopped. Wonder whatever happened to him? I think he was a legit 7 footer.

[slu72]

Part of that is just the nature of cross-generational comparisons. If Dwight Howard played in the 1950s he would dominate the league. Hell, Willie Reed might even dominate the league.

Easy Ed had an outstanding career compared to his peers. And that's generally the way most people compare cross-generational players: how they did relative to their peers.

True. How would an over weight Babe Ruth do in the majors today? And guarantee 99% of the guys who played defensive and offensive linemen in the 50s NFL wouldn't be equipment managers in today's NFL. That's not to say they weren't great players in their day, but by today's standards they couldn't cut it. Except for one old timer; Teddy "Ballgame" Williams. I think he could hit for .300 against God and Jesus.

[STL Hoops Insider]

Ian Mooney sat out when he transferred from SLU to texas

[thetorch]

Easy Ed is not the "best" player to suit up for the Billikens. He would have told you that. In a conversation with him in 1969 when talking about the Sumner high team that had Harry Rogers, David Brent, Marshall Rogers, and William Westfall, he told me he would not have been able to make that team. Harry later played for SLU. Ed is the most popular and maybe most well known Billiken, but he is not the best to play.

Ed, among the other great qualities he possessed, was one of the most humble men I ever met.

That statement if made by him is absolutely ridiculous. That Sumner team is one of the 2 or 3 best HS teams to ever play in St. Louis but Ed would have starred on it nonetheless. Harry is one of the most underrated Billikens and one can only wonder if he had the 3 point line how many more points he could have racked up in a Billikens uniform but he was no Ed Macauley.

The comparison of athletes in different eras is always erroneous. Sure if Shaq or Lebron went back in time they would dominate the NBA in the early 40s and 50s. And if you put Ed Macauley circa 1950 in a time machine and had him tryout for a current NBA team he'd get laughed off the court. Then again take infant Easy Ed, place him in this time period with our advancements in strength training, coaching, skill development, and you'd still turn out an NBA All Star. You can reverse this argument, Shaq growing up in the 30s and 40s is probably a 350 LB 6'8 man who couldn't run up and down the court once. It goes both ways.

You can only compare players to how they did against the competition they faced. Easy Ed was a National Champion, 2x All American, National Player of the Year, 7x NBA All Star, 3x time All NBA First team, 1x time All NBA 2nd team, NBA All Star game MVP, NBA Champion and named to the 50 greatest players list. Those type of accolades for one player happen 2 or 3 times a generation. Not to disparage Harry, but he was All Valley a couple times, SLU's all time leading scorer and couldn't make an NBA roster. Not quite the same. Chances are SLU never has a player as good as Easy Ed or even close.

[thetorch]

Harry R was one of the best I've seen in a Bills uni. If we could have landed Brent who was a year behind him, we would have been a powerhouse in the old MVC. Unfortunately, Brent chose Jacksonville to be the next Artis Gilmore. Think he went pro and after one year and flopped. Wonder whatever happened to him? I think he was a legit 7 footer.

Brent was legit 7 footer, 7'4 with his huge afro. Not quite the player Gilmore was. He left Jacksonville after his sophomore year. Chose to sign with the ABA rather than wait for the NBA draft. I don't think he ever played in a game.

That 69 Sumner high team is generally regarded as the best team in STL history. Rogers and Brent anchoring the frontline. Both Marshall Rogers, who would lead the NCAA in scoring at UT Pan Am, and William Westfall, who started on the 73 Memphis St final four team, came off the BENCH.

[Nebraska_Bob]

Brent was legit 7 footer, 7'4 with his huge afro. Not quite the player Gilmore was. He left Jacksonville after his sophomore year. Chose to sign with the ABA rather than wait for the NBA draft. I don't think he ever played in a game.

That 69 Sumner high team is generally regarded as the best team in STL history. Rogers and Brent anchoring the frontline. Both Marshall Rogers, who would lead the NCAA in scoring at UT Pan Am, and William Westfall, who started on the 73 Memphis St final four team, came off the BENCH.

Torch - wasn't James Brown who also played for SLU on that team also. Very well said about Easy Ed.

[slu72]

Torch - wasn't James Brown who also played for SLU on that team also. Very well said about Easy Ed.

I think he skipped college, gave up hoops, and went on to have a pretty lucrative career in the recording industry.

[Nebraska_Bob]

I think he skipped college, gave up hoops, and went on to have a pretty lucrative career in the recording industry.

Ha Ha. I knew someone would do this. But wasn't there a James Brown who played way back then?

[slu72]

I should know, but have forgotten. The FR I recall with Harry are The Ghost and Paradoski.

[Nebraska_Bob]

I should know, but have forgotten. The FR I recall with Harry are The Ghost and Paradoski.

I thought Earl would know and ran across this article. William would have made a great addition to that 73 Billiken team. I remember watching a Billiken game, I believe in 1973 at the Kiel against Memphis. I had great seats behind the Billiken bench. SLU built about a 20 point half time lead. Larry Finch almost brought Memphis back in the second half but SLU hung on for victory. I'm positive that team had Rogers, Martinez, Leonard, Paradoski, and I can not remember the 5th starter. Must be getting old. Hope this link works.

http://www.stlamerican.com/sports/local_sports/article_e0f54b5b-ea3f-5196-b76e-ac9d39cb8c57.html?mode=jqm

[Nebraska_Bob]

I thought Earl would know and ran across this article. William would have made a great addition to that 73 Billiken team. I remember watching a Billiken game, I believe in 1973 at the Kiel against Memphis. I had great seats behind the Billiken bench. SLU built about a 20 point half time lead. Larry Finch almost brought Memphis back in the second half but SLU hung on for victory. I'm positive that team had Rogers, Martinez, Leonard, Paradoski, and I can not remember the 5th starter. Must be getting old. Hope this link works.

http://www.stlamerican.com/sports/local_sports/article_e0f54b5b-ea3f-5196-b76e-ac9d39cb8c57.html?mode=jqm

I just remembered it was a player named Stallworth.

[Iggy]

This Jimmy Barton walk-on kid must really be something special to bring about such discussion.

[Billiken4life5]

Do you think he took the Houston Baptist offer with the hopes that a strong performance there would enable him to quickly transfer to a better D1 program? Seems like an odd choice, especially for a Catholic kid.

Think it was more just the fact that it was his first D1 offer. He thought for sure he was going to SLU not too long ago but he's more unsure now

[doowop]

Torch - wasn't James Brown who also played for SLU on that team also. Very well said about Easy Ed.

James Brown was a starter on that Sumner team and he played at SLU with Harry. He was a 6' 3" guard. Regarding the other, I was just repeating what Easy Ed told me and it is not as ridiculous as you think. You say IF he said it as if I made it up. Also, I did not say Harry was as good, although he could do some things that McCauley could not do. Maybe Ed was the best Billiken, maybe. I think he knew his talent level much better than you do.

[slu72]

I just remembered it was a player named Stallworth.

Don't know why those early 70's teams came up in a post about a transfer, but those names do bring back some fond memories.

[NH]

Barton's walking on at Mizzou.