The Wiz Posted April 5, 2012 Share Posted April 5, 2012 http://www.nytimes.com/2012/04/04/sports/ncaabasketball/kentucky-built-a-title-team-on-underclassmen-expected-to-leave-early-for-the-nba.html?pagewanted=1&_r=2&ref=sports Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slu72 Posted April 5, 2012 Share Posted April 5, 2012 Calipari makes a sham out of the APR, while we are left to struggle with it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted April 5, 2012 Share Posted April 5, 2012 Calipari makes a sham out of the APR, while we are left to struggle with it. just how does he make a sham out of the APR? you all know i am the least calipari fan. but honestly, what did calipari do to get around/excel at the APR? specifics please. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slu72 Posted April 5, 2012 Share Posted April 5, 2012 He's done nothing wrong, but make a mockery of an idiotic rule. Because we had kids transfer or drop out and make little or no progress toward their degree, we could face penalties. His kids start out with no intent whatsoever to graduate or even go to class after completing 12 hours of nonsense courses in their first semester. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted April 5, 2012 Share Posted April 5, 2012 He's done nothing wrong, but make a mockery of an idiotic rule. Because we had kids transfer or drop out and make little or no progress toward their degree, we could face penalties. His kids start out with no intent whatsoever to graduate or even go to class after completing 12 hours of nonsense courses in their first semester. it is my understanding that the "nonsense courses" you speak of must put the player in question on pace to get a degree that the school in question offers. and if that is true, i dont see how you can call them nonsense. personally, i dont think that is what kentucky does. i believe they do something more blatant like just make up transcripts or get profs to gift grades, but i also admit i have no proof of such. regardless, i am not as much interested in how schools cheat to get around the guidelines. i am only interested in how slu doesnt cheat and still surpasses the guidelines.......or not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbizzle09 Posted April 5, 2012 Share Posted April 5, 2012 I like how MLB's model was brought up at the end of the article. That would be the perfect solution, IMO. It would allow a kid to make the choice after high school to either try for the NBA or go to college. However, if you choose a 4-year college, you then aren't eligible to be drafted again until after your junior season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheeseman Posted April 5, 2012 Share Posted April 5, 2012 it is my understanding that the "nonsense courses" you speak of must put the player in question on pace to get a degree that the school in question offers. and if that is true, i dont see how you can call them nonsense. personally, i dont think that is what kentucky does. i believe they do something more blatant like just make up transcripts or get profs to gift grades, but i also admit i have no proof of such. regardless, i am not as much interested in how schools cheat to get around the guidelines. i am only interested in how slu doesnt cheat and still surpasses the guidelines.......or not. The kid would not be taking any courses in his major at this point in his school career. The kid could only be taking remedial or non difficult electives. If the kid stays for his sophomore year then he could end up in trouble since he would used up all his non major courses or at least most of them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SLU21 Posted April 5, 2012 Share Posted April 5, 2012 Can we drop the whole "student athlete" BS. Big time NCAA mens football and basketball operates as a farm system to develop talent and build star power for players before they enter the NFL/NBA. Along the way they make millions for schools and fund every other NCAA event (cross country dosn't sell beer). Just give up on wanting these kids to attend class or work towards a degree. I think we need to stop pretending these kids are traditional students. If Jamie Dimon called me my sophomore year and said well give you a full time offer right now I would have kissed SLU goodbye. Thats what these kids are doing. Davis can always go back to school if he wants to, but he would be a fool to spend another second at UK. Coach Cal is working the system beautifully. It works out best for him, his players, and UK. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slufanskip Posted April 5, 2012 Share Posted April 5, 2012 Well gosh, thanks for clueing us in. I don't think "we" are the ones pretending. At least I know I didn't have anything to do with the apr system. Anyone that posts on here that did? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted April 6, 2012 Share Posted April 6, 2012 Can we drop the whole "student athlete" BS. Big time NCAA mens football and basketball operates as a farm system to develop talent and build star power for players before they enter the NFL/NBA. Along the way they make millions for schools and fund every other NCAA event (cross country dosn't sell beer). Just give up on wanting these kids to attend class or work towards a degree. I think we need to stop pretending these kids are traditional students. If Jamie Dimon called me my sophomore year and said well give you a full time offer right now I would have kissed SLU goodbye. Thats what these kids are doing. Davis can always go back to school if he wants to, but he would be a fool to spend another second at UK. Coach Cal is working the system beautifully. It works out best for him, his players, and UK. people like you are the problem. an enabler and a head turner. it has long been my belief that pushing college athletics more towards pure student athletes and insisting on academic integrity to the nth degree would only make the sports better and more enjoyable for all. if collegiate athletics miss out on one and done's it wont hurt the appeal one bit. in fact i believe it would make it better. for those of you that insist they have to have talent first and that is all you care about, well then go watch the nba. they are the most talented basketball players in the world. and before you throw that back at me, all the things you want to say about why you dont want to watch the nba are exactly what college athletics continues to inch towards by allowing all this nonsense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billiken Rich Posted April 6, 2012 Share Posted April 6, 2012 people like you are the problem. an enabler and a head turner. it has long been my belief that pushing college athletics more towards pure student athletes and insisting on academic integrity to the nth degree would only make the sports better and more enjoyable for all. if collegiate athletics miss out on one and done's it wont hurt the appeal one bit. in fact i believe it would make it better. for those of you that insist they have to have talent first and that is all you care about, well then go watch the nba. they are the most talented basketball players in the world. and before you throw that back at me, all the things you want to say about why you dont want to watch the nba are exactly what college athletics continues to inch towards by allowing all this nonsense. The problem Roy is that whatever "system" you put into place someone like Cal is going to make a mockery of it. Prove that "Biology for non-biology related fields" or whatever they called that course is not a real course. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slufanskip Posted April 6, 2012 Share Posted April 6, 2012 I have never understood why the NBDL doesn't take kids right out of HS. The reality is some kids just aren't meant for college. Let any kid out of HS who wants to apply for the draft apply, then make them play a year or 2 in the NBDL. You could add a 3rd rd to the draft for these kids or something. There should be a solution involving the NBDL (like minor league baseball) that gives kids out of HS who don't want to go to college a chance to hone their skills and maybe someday make an NBA roster rather than continue to make a mockery of college basketball. Take Willie Reed for example even if he never played a day in the NBA what would be wrong with a 5 - 10 year NBDL career at 40 - 50 k per year. They could even require players or teams (and pay them less) to set up a college fund in case they want to get an education later when they mature. Pay them 30 and put 10-20 per year into a college savings account. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted April 6, 2012 Share Posted April 6, 2012 The problem Roy is that whatever "system" you put into place someone like Cal is going to make a mockery of it. Prove that "Biology for non-biology related fields" or whatever they called that course is not a real course. there should be a commitment that 100% of the ncaa police work is towards academic integrity. test scores and gpa to get in, academic progress is real, kids are graduating, etc. once it is obvious only true student athletes need to apply, the instances you are talking about will change. those kids that are now skating by will either not even go to college or they will eventually get the message earlier in their academic careers that if they want to go to college they better get to work in grade school and high school as well. no bandaids. get serious about it. and if boosters and fans all got behind the efforts and demanded it, the ncaa would indeed get in line. right now there are far far too many boosters that just want ceiling banners though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JettFlight5 Posted April 6, 2012 Share Posted April 6, 2012 As long as there is a system in place, someone will exploit it as much as they can. In one sense it's about perception. Are the players "student-athletes" or "athlete-students"? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted April 6, 2012 Share Posted April 6, 2012 I have never understood why the NBDL doesn't take kids right out of HS. The reality is some kids just aren't meant for college. Let any kid out of HS who wants to apply for the draft apply, then make them play a year or 2 in the NBDL. You could add a 3rd rd to the draft for these kids or something. There should be a solution involving the NBDL (like minor league baseball) that gives kids out of HS who don't want to go to college a chance to hone their skills and maybe someday make an NBA roster rather than continue to make a mockery of college basketball. Take Willie Reed for example even if he never played a day in the NBA what would be wrong with a 5 - 10 year NBDL career at 40 - 50 k per year. They could even require players or teams (and pay them less) to set up a college fund in case they want to get an education later when they mature. Pay them 30 and put 10-20 per year into a college savings account. skip the answer is simple, who can blame the nba for not wanting to fund their minor league. the more that burden is put on the college ranks the less it costs the nba owners. meanwhile they hide behind the veil of "oh we just want the kids to mature and experience college". b.s. the ncaa needs to have the balls to tell the nba to shove it. they arent taking em. and let the nba develo the likes of fab melo or willie reed who obviously had no business in college. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted April 6, 2012 Share Posted April 6, 2012 As long as there is a system in place, someone will exploit it as much as they can. In one sense it's about perception. Are the players "student-athletes" or "athlete-students"? for someone like you the student part is obviously unimportant. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JettFlight5 Posted April 6, 2012 Share Posted April 6, 2012 there should be a commitment that 100% of the ncaa police work is towards academic integrity. test scores and gpa to get in, academic progress is real, kids are graduating, etc. once it is obvious only true student athletes need to apply, the instances you are talking about will change. those kids that are now skating by will either not even go to college or they will eventually get the message earlier in their academic careers that if they want to go to college they better get to work in grade school and high school as well. no bandaids. get serious about it. and if boosters and fans all got behind the efforts and demanded it, the ncaa would indeed get in line. right now there are far far too many boosters that just want ceiling banners though. Many "boosters and fans" want the team they root for to win first. Demanding higher academic standards COULD cost a team in terms of wins. Therefore, it's something some wouldn't to do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JettFlight5 Posted April 6, 2012 Share Posted April 6, 2012 for someone like you the student part is obviously unimportant. And that matters why? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted April 6, 2012 Share Posted April 6, 2012 "Many "boosters and fans" want the team they root for to win first. Demanding higher academic standards COULD cost a team in terms of wins. Therefore, it's something some wouldn't to do." "And that matters why?" wow.......i guess i shouldnt be surprised by those replies knowing your history here at billikens.com. thank god you arent a typical billiken fan. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JettFlight5 Posted April 6, 2012 Share Posted April 6, 2012 wow.......i guess i shouldnt be surprised by those replies knowing your history here at billikens.com. thank god you arent a typical billiken fan. I know I'm not typical. Why on earth would you be surprised? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NextYearBill Posted April 6, 2012 Share Posted April 6, 2012 Hypothetical scenario.... Bills go to Final 4, but as a consequence JJ falls behind in school and flunks out for the next season. Do you still want the Final 4............... YES! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JettFlight5 Posted April 6, 2012 Share Posted April 6, 2012 Hypothetical scenario.... Bills go to Final 4, but as a consequence JJ falls behind in school and flunks out for the next season. Do you still want the Final 4............... YES! Depends on who you ask. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NextYearBill Posted April 6, 2012 Share Posted April 6, 2012 Its like asking would you kill your beloved dog if he ate your winning lotto ticket, if killing him was the only way to redeem it...... you would Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slufanskip Posted April 6, 2012 Share Posted April 6, 2012 Hypothetical scenario.... Bills go to Final 4, but as a consequence JJ falls behind in school and flunks out for the next season. Do you still want the Final 4............... YES! He flunked out for next season, what would that have to do with the final 4 we were just in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NextYearBill Posted April 6, 2012 Share Posted April 6, 2012 ruin a kids future for one final 4. im on board Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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