OT: Don Biondi declares war on Del Taco spaceship building

[jjray]

I personally have no love for the modern architecture that is the Del Taco building as I remember it as a gas station back in the day. Never one to pull his punches, Father B has weighed in on the issue.

http://www.stltoday.com/business/columns/building-blocks/article_418487d6-a8b5-11e0-8b8f-0019bb30f31a.html

[Bobby Metzinger]

I personally have no love for the modern architecture that is the Del Taco building as I remember it as a gas station back in the day. Never one to pull his punches, Father B has weighed in on the issue.

http://www.stltoday.com/business/columns/building-blocks/article_418487d6-a8b5-11e0-8b8f-0019bb30f31a.html

[bk18]

I love the picture the PD had... notice the guy in the electric scooter with the tall orange flag and Polar Pop in hand.

I have to say I side with Biondi on this one.

[billikenfan05]

I personally have no love for the modern architecture that is the Del Taco building as I remember it as a gas station back in the day. Never one to pull his punches, Father B has weighed in on the issue.

http://www.stltoday.com/business/columns/building-blocks/article_418487d6-a8b5-11e0-8b8f-0019bb30f31a.html

I really don't care if they tear it down but I do have a problem with the del taco lights being shut off late at night. I'm not one to be bothered by shady surroundings but there are 0 lights other than the del taco lights on that property. I never thought of Del Taco as being unsafe...but I feel like it is less safe with no lights there at night. Maybe it's just me being used to the lights I don't know.

[joe_davola]

I really don't care if they tear it down but I do have a problem with the del taco lights being shut off late at night. I'm not one to be bothered by shady surroundings but there are 0 lights other than the del taco lights on that property. I never thought of Del Taco as being unsafe...but I feel like it is less safe with no lights there at night. Maybe it's just me being used to the lights I don't know.

Biondi saying this is the kind of development midtown needs. He's a clown. Midtown also needed that huge grass lot at the corner of lindell and grand.

He doesn't have a clue. Better lighting and a solid tenant in the existing structure would cure all of his concerns on crime.

As far as traffic goes...give me a break. It's midtown not wentzville. The fox theatre really causes traffic problems let's see what we an do about that...

[davidnark]

OK, I am going to rant. There are several posters who I know personally and like and respect a lot who are part of the save the Del campaign, but I respectfully disagree. I am a card-carrying urbanite and generally in favor of historic preservation, but like everything else preservation needs to include balance and moderation. Preservation requirements are a BIG DEAL because they effectively tell a property owner how he or she has to spend his or her OWN MONEY on his or her OWN PROPERTY. And, in nearly every instance, the cost of renovating and preserving an existing, aging structure greatly exceeds the cost of developing a new structure. For this reason, the tool should be used carefully and rarely in those instances in which the structure or property truly has historical or unique, irreplaceable architectural significance. Appropriate examples would include buildings such as the old courthouse, the wainright building, union station, etc. The mechanism should not be used to preserve every structure that is old or that the social media crowd thinks is cool or hip. In my opinion, the predictable preservationist outcry on the urban blogs that accompanies every urban development project announcement dilutes the true purpose and intent of the preservation tool.

[bk18]

Biondi saying this is the kind of development midtown needs. He's a clown. Midtown also needed that huge grass lot at the corner of lindell and grand.

He doesn't have a clue. Better lighting and a solid tenant in the existing structure would cure all of his concerns on crime.

As far as traffic goes...give me a break. It's midtown not wentzville. The fox theatre really causes traffic problems let's see what we an do about that...

Find a better tenant? Space Ship McDonald's? The sculpture park was a great idea btw.

Thought I'd also add that the AAA building on Lindell may be replaced by a CVS.

[Bobby Metzinger]

Find a better tenant? Space Ship McDonald's? The sculpture park was a great idea btw.

Thought I'd also add that the AAA building on Lindell may be replaced by a CVS.

Even though there's a Walgreens a 2-iron away? Jesus. I was down in Houston two weeks ago where there's a Starbucks on one side of the street. Across the street from that -- yep, another Starbucks...and now a third! Urban planning, FTW.

http://link.brightcove.com/services/player/bcpid716758716?bctid=40751341001

[joe_davola]

Find a better tenant? Space Ship McDonald's? The sculpture park was a great idea btw.

Thought I'd also add that the AAA building on Lindell may be replaced by a CVS.

And I thought you were an idiot before this post. You are a bigger moron than I thought.

Regards,

108

[Hawk]

Biondi saying this is the kind of development midtown needs. He's a clown. Midtown also needed that huge grass lot at the corner of lindell and grand.

He doesn't have a clue. Better lighting and a solid tenant in the existing structure would cure all of his concerns on crime.

As far as traffic goes...give me a break. It's midtown not wentzville. The fox theatre really causes traffic problems let's see what we an do about that...

I think the problem with a new tenant in the existing structure is it would still have the stigma of being shady because of the Del Taco being there all these years. I also agree that historical preservation should be only used in places that have some historical significance. I don't think that the Del Taco building adds anything to the area besides a place to avoid.

[SShoe]

OK, I am going to rant. There are several posters who I know personally and like and respect a lot who are part of the save the Del campaign, but I respectfully disagree. I am a card-carrying urbanite and generally in favor of historic preservation, but like everything else preservation needs to include balance and moderation. Preservation requirements are a BIG DEAL because they effectively tell a property owner how he or she has to spend his or her OWN MONEY on his or her OWN PROPERTY. And, in nearly every instance, the cost of renovating and preserving an existing, aging structure greatly exceeds the cost of developing a new structure. For this reason, the tool should be used carefully and rarely in those instances in which the structure or property truly has historical or unique, irreplaceable architectural significance. Appropriate examples would include buildings such as the old courthouse, the wainright building, union station, etc. The mechanism should not be used to preserve every structure that is old or that the social media crowd thinks is cool or hip. In my opinion, the predictable preservationist outcry on the urban blogs that accompanies every urban development project announcement dilutes the true purpose and intent of the preservation tool.

Good post Nark and I'm pretty much in full agreement, though I disagree that the building itself has to be of some historical or architectural significance. I think you missed one other important appropriate example and that's when the structure is part of a larger historic district or has some consistency with the existing urban fabric. Preserving entire neighborhoods or districts that are roughly intact (Soulard, L. Square, CWE, Wash Ave., etc.) is just as important as preserving the Old Post Office, etc. And because of this importance, there are very generous subsidies available for historic restoration, preservation, and maintenance.

Thing is, Del Taco is neither.

[SShoe]

Even though there's a Walgreens a 2-iron away? Jesus. I was down in Houston two weeks ago where there's a Starbucks on one side of the street. Across the street from that -- yep, another Starbucks...and now a third! Urban planning, FTW.

http://link.brightcove.com/services/player/bcpid716758716?bctid=40751341001

Houston is also the only major city in the country that does not have zoning laws.

[kmbilliken]

Biondi saying this is the kind of development midtown needs. He's a clown. Midtown also needed that huge grass lot at the corner of lindell and grand.

He doesn't have a clue. Better lighting and a solid tenant in the existing structure would cure all of his concerns on crime.

As far as traffic goes...give me a break. It's midtown not wentzville. The fox theatre really causes traffic problems let's see what we an do about that...

I'm with you. Shut down the Fox so I never have to sleep through another musical again.

[slufanskip]

I know I'll be in the minority, but I don't believe there is any instance where the government has any right to tell an owner he/she can't tear down any building and rebuild. You don't want it gone, make them an offer they can't refuse and be the one making the decision. Otherwise, stay the f..k out of it.

[bonwich]

OK, I am going to rant. There are several posters who I know personally and like and respect a lot who are part of the save the Del campaign, but I respectfully disagree. I am a card-carrying urbanite and generally in favor of historic preservation, but like everything else preservation needs to include balance and moderation. Preservation requirements are a BIG DEAL because they effectively tell a property owner how he or she has to spend his or her OWN MONEY on his or her OWN PROPERTY. And, in nearly every instance, the cost of renovating and preserving an existing, aging structure greatly exceeds the cost of developing a new structure. For this reason, the tool should be used carefully and rarely in those instances in which the structure or property truly has historical or unique, irreplaceable architectural significance. Appropriate examples would include buildings such as the old courthouse, the wainright building, union station, etc. The mechanism should not be used to preserve every structure that is old or that the social media crowd thinks is cool or hip. In my opinion, the predictable preservationist outcry on the urban blogs that accompanies every urban development project announcement dilutes the true purpose and intent of the preservation tool.

Except: The mechanism was, in fact, used for the rest of the complex, which makes the architecture of Griesedieck look like an Eero Saarinen. This whole thing about those towers being "historical" seems pretty far-fetched to me. Not to mention: It ain't his OWN MONEY. It's also the money of every taxpayer in Missouri. And when it gets to that point, the unwashed masses get at least the chance to voice their opinions on the subject, which also would not have taken place unless the social media crowd started jumping up and down and yelling and screaming. The debate itself is critical to ensuring that other unique, irreplaceable buildings (Buder, International, Title Guaranty, Century) will not fall prey to the same kind of backroom procedures as have accompanied the inevitable Del Taco demolition.

As for Father Biondi's letter, I think it, too, exaggerates or misdirects on a couple of points.

In his letter, a copy of which was obtained by the Post-Dispatch, Biondi said "the site has attracted unwanted criminal activity and has generated numerous traffic issues over the years."

I would respectfully submit that 1) any and all traffic issues there are directly related to the deathtrap design of the intersection, which the University has, to my knowledge, never demanded be improved; 2) ins and outs from Reinert have generated many times traffic issues than Del Taco.

"With so many Saint Louis University students living so close to this property, this property's land use is cause for concern for parents, students, faculty and staff," he wrote. "I also can tell you that student leaders support Mr. Yackey's redevelopment efforts."

So the SGA passed a resolution endorsing the not-yet-a-firm-plan for the site? Are they even in session? For that matter, it's summer, and this whole thing played out well after the end of term. Which "student leaders" were these, and why couldn't they speak for themselves.

[slufanskip]

Except: The mechanism was, in fact, used for the rest of the complex, which makes the architecture of Griesedieck look like an Eero Saarinen. This whole thing about those towers being "historical" seems pretty far-fetched to me. Not to mention: It ain't his OWN MONEY. It's also the money of every taxpayer in Missouri. And when it gets to that point, the unwashed masses get at least the chance to voice their opinions on the subject, which also would not have taken place unless the social media crowd started jumping up and down and yelling and screaming. The debate itself is critical to ensuring that other unique, irreplaceable buildings (Buder, International, Title Guaranty, Century) will not fall prey to the same kind of backroom procedures as have accompanied the inevitable Del Taco demolition.

As for Father Biondi's letter, I think it, too, exaggerates or misdirects on a couple of points.

I would respectfully submit that 1) any and all traffic issues there are directly related to the deathtrap design of the intersection, which the University has, to my knowledge, never demanded be improved; 2) ins and outs from Reinert have generated many times traffic issues than Del Taco.

So the SGA passed a resolution endorsing the not-yet-a-firm-plan for the site? Are they even in session? For that matter, it's summer, and this whole thing played out well after the end of term. Which "student leaders" were these, and why couldn't they speak for themselves.

Ahhh ... now I've found the problem "tax payer money" Myself and many small business owners have been fighting to pay our own exhorborant tax bills just to stay in business yet I'm subsidizing rich people's business ventures. Once you say tax payer money for anything other than basic government functions it's screwed up.

[bk18]

I can't wait for the Chipotle et al to go in there and everyone can shut up about this whole thing and be content with their new Hispanic drunk munchies option while not having to worry about a dead body being dropped off in the drive-thru or Montezuma's revenge the next day.

Chipotle || Qdoba >>> Spaceship Del Taco

Why do you think they went under?

[jjray]

So the SGA passed a resolution endorsing the not-yet-a-firm-plan for the site? Are they even in session? For that matter, it's summer, and this whole thing played out well after the end of term. Which "student leaders" were these, and why couldn't they speak for themselves.

I too found it quite odd to have Father B claiming the students were with him on this one. The students have been battling Father B from almost the day he landed on campus. The "student leaders" must be a couple of divinity students over at Fusz.

[billikenfan05]

I can't wait for the Chipotle et al to go in there and everyone can shut up about this whole thing and be content with their new Hispanic drunk munchies option while not having to worry about a dead body being dropped off in the drive-thru or Montezuma's revenge the next day.

Chipotle || Qdoba >>> Spaceship Del Taco

Why do you think they went under?

You do know that Montezuma's revenge is from drinking the water in Mexico not getting sick from Mexican Inspired food?

Back on topic...I think that the Grand/FoPoPkwy is a much more pressing concern than demolishing and rebuilding Del Taco...Biondi should worry about that first.

[Tonka]

Why are the students fighting this? Because they love Del Taco or the building?

Students generally crack me up about this stuff. They did when I was a student and they still do now. If it's a great eating establishment or campus bar with some long history for the students then maybe, but for Del Taco? Or because it's an old saucer shaped business? Give me a break.

[Randy]

I have seen that Randy Vines character before. Real Doucher. So I'm not surprised he is leading this cause. It's the only way he can get chicks to look at him.

Just think how many more hippie protesters will be out at the next demonstration if this law passes: Mary-Jane is a nice lady

[AlumniFan]

I know I'll be in the minority, but I don't believe there is any instance where the government has any right to tell an owner he/she can't tear down any building and rebuild. You don't want it gone, make them an offer they can't refuse and be the one making the decision. Otherwise, stay the f..k out of it.

+1,000,000,000^100

P.S. I would not feel this way if it were not for the rampant abuse of certain preservationists and certain governments who use ridiculous arguments to woo impressionable people to support inappropriate, unilateral agendas.

[AlumniFan]

Why are the students fighting this? Because they love Del Taco or the building?

Students generally crack me up about this stuff. They did when I was a student and they still do now. If it's a great eating establishment or campus bar with some long history for the students then maybe, but for Del Taco? Or because it's an old saucer shaped business? Give me a break.

See my previous post. Many, not all, students are always searching for a cause regardless of what it means.

[Box and Won]

I have seen that Randy Vines character before. Real Doucher. So I'm not surprised he is leading this cause. It's the only way he can get chicks to look at him.

Randy and his brother, Jeff, are actually really nice guys who are passionate about St. Louis and have helped make it a better place by building a successful business on Cherokee Street. St. Louis could use a few hundred more guys like him.

[Box and Won]

So the SGA passed a resolution endorsing the not-yet-a-firm-plan for the site? Are they even in session? For that matter, it's summer, and this whole thing played out well after the end of term. Which "student leaders" were these, and why couldn't they speak for themselves.

We had to wait until the day before basketball practice started to get a ruling on "The Situation," but Biondi expects us to believe that the SGA got together during the summer to address the Del Taco situation?