SLU and Jucos

[Triangle andToo]

For all of you long time posters, you all know Triangle's thirst for juco players, you need at least 1 on every year's roster. Big strong jucos - pounding the boards, quick swing men jucos able too sneak inside for a rebound but also able too hit the 12 -15ft jumper and also quick juco guards that are able too swoop too the hoop. They just fill an inevitable void that may be necessary through injury or poor play on a team during the season.

Jesse Perry who played for Gateway and is now playing for the University of Arizona (out of John A. Logan JC in Carterville, Ill) was a player that Coach Majerus wanted, but grades and off too juco and evidently forgotten? On our Billiken team Jesse would be a star even with Mitchell and Reed. 6'7, quick as a cat and a nose for the ball - no more Conklin, Ellis or whatever - a 3 inch taller Evans who is already developed. Not a good shooter at this point in the season but is learning a role with the Wildcats but has no fear in the lane.

Is there a problem with Coach Majerus recruiting a juco, we have had some in the past - Billiken Quiz - who?

so it goes.

[White Pelican]

For all of you long time posters, you all know Triangle's thirst for juco players, you need at least 1 on every year's roster. Big strong jucos - pounding the boards, quick swing men jucos able too sneak inside for a rebound but also able too hit the 12 -15ft jumper and also quick juco guards that are able too swoop too the hoop. They just fill an inevitable void that may be necessary through injury or poor play on a team during the season.

Jesse Perry who played for Gateway and is now playing for the University of Arizona (out of John A. Logan JC in Carterville, Ill) was a player that Coach Majerus wanted, but grades and off too juco and evidently forgotten? On our Billiken team Jesse would be a star even with Mitchell and Reed. 6'7, quick as a cat and a nose for the ball - no more Conklin, Ellis or whatever - a 3 inch taller Evans who is already developed. Not a good shooter at this point in the season but is learning a role with the Wildcats but has no fear in the lane.

Is there a problem with Coach Majerus recruiting a juco, we have had some in the past - Billiken Quiz - who?

so it goes.

Justin Love, Mo Jeffers, Josh Fisher come to mind. All good players. At least I remember them as all being JUCO transfers. Not sure why Majerus doesn't use them. Has his own ways I guess.

[thetorch]

Jesse Perry couldn't get into SLU out of HS. If he got in after JUCO he would struggle at best to stay eligible.

For our program JUCOs are not a consistent answer to our talent deficit. Majerus hasn't really recruited JUCO players in his career so we would be at a disadvantage there. We've had coaches who specialized in JUCO players and what did it get us?

SLU JUCOs

Eberhart - Below average player

Newborne - Worse than Eberhart

Frericks - Starter level player, never healthy

Brown - Starter level player

Jeffers - Star

Love - Star

Fergerson - Average player

Barentine - worse than Newborne

Turner - Average

Campbell - Average

Robinson - Starter level player

Dobbs - Star

That goes back to Spoon, don't even get me started on the gang of JUCO misfits that Grawer rolled in here every year, Tony Manuel, Travis Tadysak, Mike Ivester just to name a couple.

SLU has had 3 really good JUCOS in 20 years. A couple starters, a few reserves, and the rest bums. Some schools can get good JUCOs, like Arizona, or Mizzou. We cannot at least not on a regular basis. Don't forget Soderberg signed at least 2 JUCOs who burned us by not being able to get into school. There is too much risk for us, we are better with 4 year players and using JUCOs as a stop gap. SLU can't win by recruiting JUCOs who play at the same level as 4 year players we are able to recruit.

[Quality Is Job 1]

For all of you long time posters, you all know Triangle's thirst for juco players, you need at least 1 on every year's roster. Big strong jucos - pounding the boards, quick swing men jucos able too sneak inside for a rebound but also able too hit the 12 -15ft jumper and also quick juco guards that are able too swoop too the hoop. They just fill an inevitable void that may be necessary through injury or poor play on a team during the season.

Jesse Perry who played for Gateway and is now playing for the University of Arizona (out of John A. Logan JC in Carterville, Ill) was a player that Coach Majerus wanted, but grades and off too juco and evidently forgotten? On our Billiken team Jesse would be a star even with Mitchell and Reed. 6'7, quick as a cat and a nose for the ball - no more Conklin, Ellis or whatever - a 3 inch taller Evans who is already developed. Not a good shooter at this point in the season but is learning a role with the Wildcats but has no fear in the lane.

Is there a problem with Coach Majerus recruiting a juco, we have had some in the past - Billiken Quiz - who?

so it goes.

Since he's already playing for your beloved Arizona Wildcats, I'm surprised you would want him at SLU.

[thetorch]

Justin Love, Mo Jeffers, Josh Fisher come to mind. All good players. At least I remember them as all being JUCO transfers. Not sure why Majerus doesn't use them. Has his own ways I guess.

Fischer was a transfer from Pepperdine, he came with Romar, never attended a JUCO.

[White Pelican]

Fischer was a transfer from Pepperdine, he came with Romar, never attended a JUCO.

Thanks. Wasn't sure about the spelling OR whether he was a JUCO. I knew he wasn't here for four years. I remember he was from the Seattle area and had some relationship with Romar. And was a very good player. (Too good to be a JUCO I guess.)

[Triangle andToo]

Great work and knowledge Torch on your historian work and evaluations, Triangle did not have Frericks or Campbell on Too's list. You did admit that there are "stars" out there (in our Billiken history) and that they can be used as "stop gaps". Jucos are used for freshman too develope and too fill voids as Too posted but they have been ignored in order too recruit multiple 4 year players who are really hurting this team and who are regressing in their developement (Coach Majerus's recruiting evaluations?). Jucos are available every year but Coach Majerus seems too think that if a player does not make the grades in high school, screw it.

Again, good work Torch!

so it goes.

[thetorch]

(Too good to be a JUCO I guess.)

Another good point. East coast kids don't go to JUCO, except Florida kids. All JUCO players are from the Midwest primarily. Kids who would go JUCO in the past now go to prep school. Their is a lot less talent in the JUCO ranks than there was 10-15 years. NCAA rule changes, especially the one stating that JUCO recruits must graduate from their JUCOs to be eligible to play D-1 ball also has thinned their ranks. The talent pool is just not there anymore.

[Quality Is Job 1]

Thanks. Wasn't sure about the spelling OR whether he was a JUCO. I knew he wasn't here for four years. I remember he was from the Seattle area and had some relationship with Romar. And was a very good player. (Too good to be a JUCO I guess.)

You actually did spell Josh Fisher's last name correctly. And we was too a Billiken for four years.

[billiken_roy]

just remember that the ncaa changed the rule about 4-5 years ago on academic progress for accepting a juco transfer. the juco transfer has to be able to slip into an existing major program and have the necessary credits to be on pace to graduate at the accepting school in the proper class.

for a large public university with many more diverse major progams, that is much easier to do than at smaller private institutions.

so slu has to find juco's that have the necessary academics. not as easy to do.

[Triangle andToo]

General statements about east coast, Florida, prep schools are completely misinformed and misleading. It reminds Too of recent political statements about how the "American People" have given us their mandate. The Division 1 basketball rosters have 100's of juco players who are helping their teams too win. You are talking about the stars that haven't made their high school commitments that can either afford or get so called "scholarships" too play in a prep school. The rest go too jucos, and there are plenty of them throughout Division 1 basketball. Student/Athletes who made academic mistakes in high school but who have righted the course in JC and who are now available too contribute both academically and on the court. This is a pool of players, a source of possibility. All Triangle is saying- is our present coaching staff evaluating this possible pool? Triangle thinks not.

so it goes.

[Bay Area Billiken]

Jesse Perry couldn't get into SLU out of HS. If he got in after JUCO he would struggle at best to stay eligible.

For our program JUCOs are not a consistent answer to our talent deficit. Majerus hasn't really recruited JUCO players in his career so we would be at a disadvantage there. We've had coaches who specialized in JUCO players and what did it get us?

SLU JUCOs

Eberhart - Below average player

Newborne - Worse than Eberhart

Frericks - Starter level player, never healthy

Brown - Starter level player

Jeffers - Star

Love - Star

Fergerson - Average player

Barentine - worse than Newborne

Turner - Average

Campbell - Average

Robinson - Starter level player

Dobbs - Star

That goes back to Spoon, don't even get me started on the gang of JUCO misfits that Grawer rolled in here every year, Tony Manuel, Travis Tadysak, Mike Ivester just to name a couple.

SLU has had 3 really good JUCOS in 20 years. A couple starters, a few reserves, and the rest bums. Some schools can get good JUCOs, like Arizona, or Mizzou. We cannot at least not on a regular basis. Don't forget Soderberg signed at least 2 JUCOs who burned us by not being able to get into school. There is too much risk for us, we are better with 4 year players and using JUCOs as a stop gap. SLU can't win by recruiting JUCOs who play at the same level as 4 year players we are able to recruit.

If we go way back, 3 decades, SLU had 2 good JUCO's when I was there- Center Kelvin Henderson and Guard David Burns.

[STL Hoops Insider]

For all of you long time posters, you all know Triangle's thirst for juco players, you need at least 1 on every year's roster. Big strong jucos - pounding the boards, quick swing men jucos able too sneak inside for a rebound but also able too hit the 12 -15ft jumper and also quick juco guards that are able too swoop too the hoop. They just fill an inevitable void that may be necessary through injury or poor play on a team during the season.

Jesse Perry who played for Gateway and is now playing for the University of Arizona (out of John A. Logan JC in Carterville, Ill) was a player that Coach Majerus wanted, but grades and off too juco and evidently forgotten? On our Billiken team Jesse would be a star even with Mitchell and Reed. 6'7, quick as a cat and a nose for the ball - no more Conklin, Ellis or whatever - a 3 inch taller Evans who is already developed. Not a good shooter at this point in the season but is learning a role with the Wildcats but has no fear in the lane.

Is there a problem with Coach Majerus recruiting a juco, we have had some in the past - Billiken Quiz - who?

so it goes.

Dont forget about Perry's Gateway Tech and John A. Logan teammate Kenny Harris. The 6'6 guard is the 2nd leading scorer at Evansville. Some local players that are having great seasons the junior college level right now are Ron Waller, Torres Roundtree, Connell Crossland, and I'm sure there are a couple I'm forgetting. Also, former Player of the Year Bryant Allen just left the Minnesota Football and Basketball programs and is looking to concentrate on basketball. He'd be a good pickup.

[White Pelican]

You actually did spell Josh Fisher's last name correctly. And we was too a Billiken for four years.

Thanks. I stand corrected. I guess he never played at Pepperdine, sat out a year, and then played four years here?

I just can't remember.

[Box and Won]

I guess he never played at Pepperdine, sat out a year, and then played four years here?

Exactly.

[STL Hoops Insider]

i dont really remember the Fisher situation, but I'm guessing that he must've been a mid-year transfer from Pepperdine to SLU, because if he sat out the entire 99-00 season at Pepperdine, then transferred to SLU he would've had to sit out the whole 00-01 season because of transfer rules and because of the 5/4 rule would've had to play his 1st season of basketball in 01-02 as a sophomore because he already used 2 of the 5 years 99-01. If he transferred midway through the 99-00 season, he would've been eligible in play midway through the 00-01 season as a 2nd semester freshman and still had 3 years left. Sound right?

[Duff Man]

For our program JUCOs are not a consistent answer to our talent deficit. Majerus hasn't really recruited JUCO players in his career so we would be at a disadvantage there. We've had coaches who specialized in JUCO players and what did it get us?

Our first NCAA tournament birth in 37 years!

3 of SLU's 4 NCAA teams in the modern era have had major contributions from Juco transfers - and who knows if Hughes even considers SLU if not for their back-to-back NCAA teams in 94-95. We could very well be at 52 years and counting if not for the contributions of Donnie Dobbs, David Robinson, "average" Carl Turner, Justin Love, and Mo Jeffers.

They may not be practical anymore due to the semi-recent NCAA rule changes Roy alluded to, and it sounds like RM stays away from them precisely on those grounds, but just because the majority of them flopped under Soderberg doesn't mean we should just abandon the idea outright.

[Quality Is Job 1]

Thanks. I stand corrected. I guess he never played at Pepperdine, sat out a year, and then played four years here?

I just can't remember.

i dont really remember the Fisher situation, but I'm guessing that he must've been a mid-year transfer from Pepperdine to SLU, because if he sat out the entire 99-00 season at Pepperdine, then transferred to SLU he would've had to sit out the whole 00-01 season because of transfer rules and because of the 5/4 rule would've had to play his 1st season of basketball in 01-02 as a sophomore because he already used 2 of the 5 years 99-01. If he transferred midway through the 99-00 season, he would've been eligible in play midway through the 00-01 season as a 2nd semester freshman and still had 3 years left. Sound right?

Josh Fisher never enrolled at Pepperdine. He signed with Pepperdine, but when Romar left to take the SLU job, he followed him. He sat out his freshman year at SLU in 1999-2000 and began as a sophomore in '00-'01. Before the 2002-03 season, he was granted a release from his letter of intent to Pepperdine so that he could play four years, so he was listed as a junior twice.

[STL Hoops Insider]

Wow, so Pepperdine didnt release him from his LOI when the coach left? That doesnt happen too often, but i know Western Illinois did it initially with Josh Harrellson, but most schools release recruits when that happens, just like when SLU released Ryan Hollins when Romar left. I'm surprised Pepperdine held him hostage like that.

[NH]

Wow, so Pepperdine didnt release him from his LOI when the coach left? That doesnt happen too often, but i know Western Illinois did it initially with Josh Harrellson, but most schools release recruits when that happens, just like when SLU released Ryan Hollins when Romar left. I'm surprised Pepperdine held him hostage like that.

Bryant Allen wouldn't really fit well on this team, although I am a big fan of him as a player.

We need bigs now. If a JUCO stud big is availible, grab him. If not, I'm not concerned.

We recruited Harrelson and Will Clyburn out of their JUCOS. I wouldve liked to see us recruit Leon Powell, not sure how he would have done academically though. Majerus will recruit JUCOs if he thinks they fit.

[thetorch]

"average" Carl Turner

Why do people love Carl Turner? Undersized 2 guard, 3 point specialist who wasn't a great 3 point shooter and couldn't defend at all, he was a worse defender than Erwin Claggett. His career FG% is lower than Dwayne Polk's and he shot better from 3 than from 2. If anything I overstated him being average.

[thetorch]

Bryant Allen wouldn't really fit well on this team, although I am a big fan of him as a player.

Allen is supposed to go to SIUC.

[Box and Won]

Why do people love Carl Turner? Undersized 2 guard, 3 point specialist who wasn't a great 3 point shooter and couldn't defend at all, he was a worse defender than Erwin Claggett. His career FG% is lower than Dwayne Polk's and he shot better from 3 than from 2. If anything I overstated him being average.

I just remember him fondly because he hit a few buzzer-beaters in his two years with the Bills.

[NH]

Allen is supposed to go to SIUC.

Nice get for them IMO

[Taj79]

Tough gig. I would venture to say that most JUCOs are there for a grades-related issue. Couldn't qualify, bad test scores, low GPA, etc. Now if I'm one of those kids, am I going to John A. Logan and majoring in chemistry? Biology? Mathematics? Or am I taking (no sh*t -- from their on-line web site) auto collision? Tooling manufacturing? Or Welding? Now let's figure how that translates into a degree at SLU.

So you have to find the right fit.

And as some pointed out, JUCOs don't seem to be in RM's makeup. So now you and a school and a coach who really don't line up with that role model. There is where it goes Joey. The greatest hyped JUCO class ever was Grawer's Jackson Wheeler-led group of Tadysak, Ivester and Manual. Flop. Flop. Flop. Dick Fosberry should have been the team mascot instead of a Billiken. Best combo: Henderson & Burns. Best solo: Love & Dobbs (tie). Jeffers was also up there so maybe a three-way. But in almost each good case the first year of the transfer was nothing to write home about. The rules of general basketball physics do NOT apply at SLU makin git even harder to be a Billiken fan.

I have always believed in the Parcells analogy of bringing the goods to the table and I've always thought four-year players were a better route to go. JUCOs seem to be reall yone-and-dones as well, not seeing a real return on your investment until year two, their senior year. Then you are back where you started.