We are making history!

[Archy McNally]

Or MM and DE have trouble adjusting to D1 just like JJ and CS initially and ride the pine or redshirt. It does not have to be JJ.

If the talk here is about available minutes and somebody is not going to play, then I agree and I think a couple guys are redshirting this year because the team is young and some players could use it. It could be JJ, JS, CR, the freshmen. And it is totally possible that somebody does not like their minutes and leaves.

I think people forget that players actually do get better. Ryan Brooks was probably the best player at Temple and led the team with 14.3 ppg. He played 10 min as a freshmen and avg 3 ppg for a team that went 12-18. Year 2 - 8ppg, year 3 - 10 ppg.

Joey Rodriguez from VCU avg 5 ppg as a freshmen. Jordan could become the next Rodriguez - it is fathomable. He could cement himself as the backup to Mitchell for the next couple years and start his senior year. He could redshirt and then start 2 years. His decision-making will improve.

This I am pretty sure of. The guys that just started the last game against VCU. They are going to be playing a lot.

[slufanskip]

In his latest blog - Timmerman says McCall is 6-1 http://interact.stltoday.com/blogzone/bill...cruiting-class/

I'm pretty sure Claggett was listed at 6-1 and he played on the same team with both Macauley and Turner, so that is three there right around the 6-foot or a little below range. While H was the starter, Clag did play alongside CM and CT for stretches.

I am not sure I follow you with those 3 smaller guard getting 80 minutes. Cassity and Salecich will also fit in ahead of JJ, so we will not be playing two smaller guards too much.

I see JJ a little bit like Redford from Xavier. He's listed at 6-0, but he's not much bigger than JJ. He comes in for a few minutes a game and tries to provide a spark by hitting a few threes. Xavier also gives good minutes to two other guards who are right around 6-foot - Holloway and Lyons. Again, you put those three guards on a Majerus roster and they would be a couple inches shorter.

Who were the bigs on those teams?

So you're saying we'll play the 3 small guards less than 80 minutes? How many would you think?

You keep saying JJ's a good player, I keep saying I agree. You aren't really looking at how many minutes a game will be available to him.

You divide the 200 minutes we get per game. Fill in the blanks

WR _______

RL ________

CE ________

BC ________

CR________

JS ________

DE ________

KC ________

CS ________

FJ _________

KM ________

JJ _________

MM ________

Go ahead give it a shot. I'm curious to see what you come up with.

[bsheldon]

I am so 100% convinced of this "Shrinking Majerus Roster" phenomenon. But maybe 90%. I have seen a couple of examples.

The one thing that an D1 player buddy of mine always reminds of is: It is not nearly as important how tall you are, as it is how LONG you are. (absolutely no double meaning at all--no comments please)

If you are 6'5" and have a flat footed vertical reach of 8'4" you essentially are "taller" than a player that is 6'7" and has a reach of 8'1." Reach is most important. You cover much more space with your arms than you do with you torso and head.

I may be totally wrong, but if memory serves; Looking at JJ and KM side by side--there is only about 1 inch height difference, but I bet KM has significantly longer reach. See Allen Iverson--sure he is wicked quick, but at 6' it always amazed me how he could drive the lane agianst the trees in the NBA consistently. His reach is much more than an average 6 footer. Combined with his incredible speed his reach allowed for those extended arm layups in with the giants.

[Quality Is Job 1]

Who were the bigs on those teams?

So you're saying we'll play the 3 small guards less than 80 minutes? How many would you think?

You keep saying JJ's a good player, I keep saying I agree. You aren't really looking at how many minutes a game will be available to him.

You divide the 200 minutes we get per game. Fill in the blanks

WR _______

RL ________

CE ________

BC ________

CR________

JS ________

DE ________

KC ________

CS ________

FJ _________

KM ________

JJ _________

MM ________

Go ahead give it a shot. I'm curious to see what you come up with.

Skip, you seems to be pre-apologizing for someone's leaving. Why don't we just wait to see what happens, and then reason it out then. But I'm not preparing for anyone's leaving. There are 13 roster spots, but only 5 can be on the court at one time. Most programs play 8 or 9 guys most of the minutes. If the program is winning, though, some guys like being a part of that and don't mind filling their roles, even though they're not a star. Justin Jordan can be SLU's reincarnation of Carl Turner — a sharpshooter off of the bench but not a headline role.

[NH]

WR __28___

RL __20___

CE ___25___

BC ___10___

CR___12___

JS ___0*___

DE ___0*____

KC __25___

CS __20____

FJ ___20____

KM __30___

JJ ___15____

MM __120____

This comes out to (I think) 210 minutes. When you factor in injuries and such, thats not too far off.

[ACE]

Who were the bigs on those teams?

So you're saying we'll play the 3 small guards less than 80 minutes? How many would you think?

You keep saying JJ's a good player, I keep saying I agree. You aren't really looking at how many minutes a game will be available to him.

You divide the 200 minutes we get per game. Fill in the blanks

WR _______

RL ________

CE ________

BC ________

CR________

JS ________

DE ________

KC ________

CS ________

FJ _________

KM ________

JJ _________

MM ________

Go ahead give it a shot. I'm curious to see what you come up with.

I am not suggesting there will be a lot of minutes for JJ, in fact, I am quite certain he will get less than this past season. Among the five guards, I expect JJ will get the least. The main point I disagree with is the idea that you can't play two guards around 6-foot. I just don't think it is that big of a deal. Maybe part of your perception of it being a problem stems from Majerus shrinking these guys. I go back to the Kansas State backcourt again. KM was listed at 6-0 coming out of high school and McCall is listed at 6-1. That's the exact listing currently for Pullen and Clemente.

Back to JJ, he is the fifth guard on the depth chart. He is a nice guy to have around if there is an injury, or in the right match-up, as a zone buster or to fill in for short stretches when RM wants to go up-tempo.

[bsheldon]

Just looking at some numbers on how the playing time MAY break down it does get a bit dicey.

KM is going to get 25 (but proably more like 30) a game give or take of course, but using that number that gives us 55 minutes to divide up between 5 guards--so even in a perfect world only about 10 minutes a game. Which isn't going to be the case because coach loves KC and CS has shown some real good signs dwon the stretch. Each of them played a TON this year and it will be doubtful either will be happy only playing 10 minutes a game. so for arguments sake and simplicity lets say each of them gets 20. That still leaves 15 minutes between the 3 guys. FJ if he can stay healthy may just earn all of them outright--and possibly even take minutes from either or both of KC and CS. That still leaves JJ and MM without any playing time. The only other wildcard/variable is the odd time when we go small or for whatever JS, CE, and DE are not /can not play and KC and or CS have to fill in at the 3. But still which ever one is at the three odds are the other will be at the two, so you really don't open up any minutes for our remaining 2 guards--MM and JJ.

Again all of this is fun to contemplate. The depth that we now have is amazing and something we Bills fans haven't seen in... well I can't recall when.

[slufanskip]

WR __28___

RL __20___

CE ___25___

BC ___10___

CR___12___

JS ___0*___

DE ___0*____

KC __25___

CS __20____

FJ ___20____

KM __30___

JJ ___15____

MM __120____

This comes out to (I think) 210 minutes. When you factor in injuries and such, thats not too far off.

we only have 200 minutes per game regardless of injuries. Do your math again, if you have MM at 12 your total comes to 217. Do you really have DE getting zero minutes? I'm assuming you think JS is redshirting or leaving? You have to get rid of 17 minutes even with DE and JS getting zero. Therein lies the problem. In addition, I'll guarantee with a bet that MM averages more than 12 minutes per game unless you meant 20 for him which now means you have to get rid of 25.

[bsheldon]

I am not suggesting there will be a lot of minutes for JJ, in fact, I am quite certain he will get less than this past season. Among the five guards, I expect JJ will get the least. The main point I disagree with is the idea that you can't play two guards around 6-foot. I just don't think it is that big of a deal. Maybe part of your perception of it being a problem stems from Majerus shrinking these guys. I go back to the Kansas State backcourt again. KM was listed at 6-0 coming out of high school and McCall is listed at 6-1. That's the exact listing currently for Pullen and Clemente.

Back to JJ, he is the fifth guard on the depth chart. He is a nice guy to have around if there is an injury, or in the right match-up, as a zone buster or to fill in for short stretches when RM wants to go up-tempo.

JJ WILL get his time on the floor. He is spark offensively. It may just be that he plays about the same as he did this year. He may be fine with that if we are winning. I for one hope he stays.

[slufanskip]

I am not suggesting there will be a lot of minutes for JJ, in fact, I am quite certain he will get less than this past season. Among the five guards, I expect JJ will get the least. The main point I disagree with is the idea that you can't play two guards around 6-foot. I just don't think it is that big of a deal. Maybe part of your perception of it being a problem stems from Majerus shrinking these guys. I go back to the Kansas State backcourt again. KM was listed at 6-0 coming out of high school and McCall is listed at 6-1. That's the exact listing currently for Pullen and Clemente.

Back to JJ, he is the fifth guard on the depth chart. He is a nice guy to have around if there is an injury, or in the right match-up, as a zone buster or to fill in for short stretches when RM wants to go up-tempo.

I didn't say you couldn't play 2 guards at 6' or smaller. I conceded we would. My question to you would be for how long per game?

Ok, now you've gotten to the point. Lets say your JJ, why would you stay and play 5 minutes a game when you could start and play elsewhere.

[ACE]

I think we are so used to having open scholarships and little competition for playing time, that we are freaking out about minutes. This is a great problem to have. I guess it gives us something to talk about, but there is nothing to worry about.

[slufanskip]

Skip, you seems to be pre-apologizing for someone's leaving. Why don't we just wait to see what happens, and then reason it out then. But I'm not preparing for anyone's leaving. There are 13 roster spots, but only 5 can be on the court at one time. Most programs play 8 or 9 guys most of the minutes. If the program is winning, though, some guys like being a part of that and don't mind filling their roles, even though they're not a star. Justin Jordan can be SLU's reincarnation of Carl Turner — a sharpshooter off of the bench but not a headline role.

I'm not apologizing.

[ACE]

I didn't say you couldn't play 2 guards at 6' or smaller. I conceded we would. My question to you would be for how long per game?

Ok, now you've gotten to the point. Lets say your JJ, why would you stay and play 5 minutes a game when you could start and play elsewhere.

I could see him getting more like 8-10, and God forbid if an injury happens to somebody, like we saw this year with a couple guys, then he gets more minutes.

[slufanskip]

I could see him getting more like 8-10, and God forbid if an injury happens to somebody, like we saw this year with a couple guys, then he gets more minutes.

If you were JJ, what would you do? You're only thinking of it from the Billikens point of view. We know we are still recruiting for next year and people have been talking about who will be asked to leave. My point is we probably won't have to ask someone to leave, players will want to play.

[NH]

we only have 200 minutes per game regardless of injuries. Do your math again, if you have MM at 12 your total comes to 217. Do you really have DE getting zero minutes? I'm assuming you think JS is redshirting or leaving? You have to get rid of 17 minutes even with DE and JS getting zero. Therein lies the problem. In addition, I'll guarantee with a bet that MM averages more than 12 minutes per game unless you meant 20 for him which now means you have to get rid of 25.

Yeah, me math was way off. But you can average more than 200 mins total because of injuries. Obviously not in one game, but over the course of the season you can.

Also, I had JS and DE redshirting. We have to realize that some guys are not going to play until they are JR and SRs. Some players are not going to accept that and are going to transfer. I bet JJ thinks he can get minutes if he works hard and does what the coaches ask.

[dlarry]

If you were JJ, what would you do? You're only thinking of it from the Billikens point of view. We know we are still recruiting for next year and people have been talking about who will be asked to leave. My point is we probably won't have to ask someone to leave, players will want to play.

And you are only thinking about it as a basketball team.

JJ may want to stay because he wants to get a great education, play basketball on a solid team, continue friendships he has made at SLU, learn from a great coach/teacher, possibly set himself up for future coaching jobs, take AB tours, go up in the arch, go sledding on art hill.

JJ has been at SLU for almost a full year. He may think that being comfortbale and part of a team he really cares about is more important than playing 30 minutes a game.

If I am JJ I stay and learn all I can from one of the great college coaches and try and use that knowledge to continue a career in basketball as a coach.

JJ knows he wont play pro ball. Learning from Majerus is a great oppurtunity.

And If that fails he will have one hell of an education.

[slufanskip]

And you are only thinking about it as a basketball team.

JJ may want to stay because he wants to get a great education, play basketball on a solid team, continue friendships he has made at SLU, learn from a great coach/teacher, possibly set himself up for future coaching jobs, take AB tours, go up in the arch, go sledding on art hill.

JJ has been at SLU for almost a full year. He may think that being comfortbale and part of a team he really cares about is more important than playing 30 minutes a game.

If I am JJ I stay and learn all I can from one of the great college coaches and try and use that knowledge to continue a career in basketball as a coach.

JJ knows he wont play pro ball. Learning from Majerus is a great oppurtunity.

And If that fails he will have one hell of an education.

I'm thinking about it as a basketball player. However, I agree, not everyone will think alike and there are many reasons he might want to stay.

[slu72]

I think we are so used to having open scholarships and little competition for playing time, that we are freaking out about minutes. This is a great problem to have. I guess it gives us something to talk about, but there is nothing to worry about.

Agreed. RM has stocked the cupboard. Players buying into the commitment to get better and play their roles will get the minutes. I don't think we'll see any more transfers out at this point unless RM's got another player hiding in his closet, and he is not satisfied with some aspect of one his current players. Now after next season, it wouldn't be a surprise to see one or two check out on their own accord due to playing time issues. There's really no reason to be discussing this now. Players are either going to step up or step out. Good situation to be in and one we're definitely not used to being in.

[kmbilliken]

I'm thinking about it as a basketball player. However, I agree, not everyone will think alike and there are many reasons he might want to stay.

I bet JJ thinks he'll play a lot of minutes next year. He had better numbers than McCall in high school and now has a year of experience under his belt. I'm sure he expects competition and expects yo win it. McCall taking his minutes isn't a give. JJ has talent and the best 3 point shot on the team. His defense improved tremendously. For the first time I can remember we have a roster full of players who can contribute. Who will get the minutes isn't set in stone. It will depend on what improvements each makes in the off season.

[Bizziken]

WR __28___

RL __20___

CE ___25___

BC ___10___

CR___12___

JS ___0*___

DE ___0*____

KC __25___

CS __20____

FJ ___20____

KM __30___

JJ ___15____

MM __120____

This comes out to (I think) 210 minutes. When you factor in injuries and such, thats not too far off.

What about Eckerle?....You gotta believe Majerus will put him in for at least 5 minutes per game to give someone a breather...

[Bizziken]

I posted this in another thread about a week ago....

Current Minute Breakdown

Mitchell: 33

Cassity: 32

Ellis: 28

Salecich: 28

Reed: 27

Conklin: 21

Jordan: 18

John: 17

Remekun: 12

Smith: 11

Here is a POSSIBLE breakdown of minutes next year: I was just crunching numbers

(This is with Jon Smith red-shirting)

Mitchell: 28

Cassity: 26

Ellis: 22

Reed: 22

Loe: 22

Salecich: 20

McCall: 18

Conklin: 10

John: 7

Remekun: 7

Evans: 7

Jordan: 7

Eckerle: 4

[slufanskip]

I bet JJ thinks he'll play a lot of minutes next year. He had better numbers than McCall in high school and now has a year of experience under his belt. I'm sure he expects competition and expects yo win it. McCall taking his minutes isn't a give. JJ has talent and the best 3 point shot on the team. His defense improved tremendously. For the first time I can remember we have a roster full of players who can contribute. Who will get the minutes isn't set in stone. It will depend on what improvements each makes in the off season.

I wouldn't say JJ has the best 3 point shot on the team. He got off to a great start hitting 9 of 15 in the first 4 games. Since then he shot it at a 35% clip. Not bad, but also nothing to brag about, and I think a better reflection of his shot. Cody Ellis will shoot better than JJ with a regular preseason and I'd prefer to have KM shooting it than JJ. In the 2nd half of the season KC also shot the 3 better. However, I'll give it to you that he ended the year with the best percentage.