OT: Women's Division 1 or Men's Division 2

[billiken_roy]

why should men's football scholarships be taken out of the formula? other than about 40 bcs schools, in the overall picture (additional coaches, facilities, scholarships, staff assistants, department administration, insurance) football doesnt make money either.

no one is telling these schools to drop their men's nonrevenue sports, the individual schools make that decision on their own.

sorry, but women deserve equal dollars.

[brianstl]

why should men's football scholarships be taken out of the formula? other than about 40 bcs schools, in the overall picture (additional coaches, facilities, scholarships, staff assistants, department administration, insurance) football doesnt make money either.

no one is telling these schools to drop their men's nonrevenue sports, the individual schools make that decision on their own.

sorry, but women deserve equal dollars.

Why don't we make it really equal and make all sports coed. That way if you are good enough to play you play regardless of your sex.

[billiken_roy]

Why don't we make it really equal and make all sports coed. That way if you are good enough to play you play regardless of your sex.

you really look stupid with that statement brian.

[brianstl]

you really look stupid with that statement brian.

Really. If it is about true equallity that is what it would be. But it is not and we all know it. It is about trying to create the same results. The fact is many schools have a hard time filling all their women's team with players because there isn't enough interest from the women themselves.

[Ron Rimmerman]

roy, brian doesn't look stupid at all. you should listen to the reasoning and logic and avoid the name calling. even if you don't agree with him, you shouldn't assume that you're right and jump all over him with your pathos argument.

brian's suggestion is a great idea if men and women are truly equal!

[JohnnyJumpUp]

roy, brian doesn't look stupid at all. you should listen to the reasoning and logic and avoid the name calling. even if you don't agree with him, you shouldn't assume that you're right and jump all over him with your pathos argument.

brian's suggestion is a great idea if men and women are truly equal!

I hope you are being sarcastic.....Brian's idea is a terrible idea. Men and women are equal in the sense that they both have equal rights, but that does not mean they have equal athletic ability in all sports. Please tell me you are just joking.

[bsheldon]

I have always been a huge advocate of women's athletics. (Athletics=sports: not cheerleading) I watched a lot of girls basketball in HS. I worked with my girlfriends that played quite a bit.

Short story: The girls varsity team at my high school was ranked #2 in the area. They were in the sectional rounds of the state playoffs and were playing a team that presses. The coach asked my coach of my .500 JV/all sophomore boys team if we would help them practice against a press. Our coach asked us if we would scrimmage them. I honestly thought they would beat us. Boy, was I wrong. Literally within the first couple minutes, the coaches had to tell us we could no longer use our arms at all on defense--quit stealing the ball on every possession and making a lay-up at the other end. I was astounded at the difference of level of the game. We literally could have beat them 100-0 and we were not even a good JV team and they were one of the top varsity teams in the state.

With all of that being said, I would watch just about any men's game High School Junior varsity on up over even the WNBA. It is nothing against the women as I have huge respect for their efforts but...(here comes the analogy that I once heard and I can never get out of my head)

"Watching women's basketball is like watching old people have sex."

No one wants to see that.

I actually had this discussion yesterday while in the VIP lounge at the Edward Jones dome waiting for the game to start and they had ESPN on showing the women's tourney. There just isn't enough talent available. There truly is only a handful of elite players coming into the game each year--hence the same 2-3 teams win constantly. The best players keep going to those same schools year after year. The gap in talent is obviously huge from the very top to even just the number 10-25 teams in the country. UCONN has a 70+ game win streak going as proof.

For those of you with daughters, keep them palying. There is some interest in the game outside of those directly related to the players. Some of the games get decent crowds.

[JohnnyJumpUp]

"Watching women's basketball is like watching old people have sex."

No one wants to see that.

I actually had this discussion yesterday while in the VIP lounge at the Edward Jones dome waiting for the game to start and they had ESPN on showing the women's tourney. There just isn't enough talent available. There truly is only a handful of elite players coming into the game each year--hence the same 2-3 teams win constantly. The best players keep going to those same schools year after year. The gap in talent is obviously huge from the very top to even just the number 10-25 teams in the country. UCONN has a 70+ game win streak going as proof.

For those of you with daughters, keep them palying. There is some interest in the game outside of those directly related to the players. Some of the games get decent crowds.

Watching women's basketball is like reading a post about someone being in the VIP lounge at the Edward Jones Dome.

No one gives a shite.

[b.hayes]

Watching women's basketball is like reading a post about someone being in the VIP lounge at the Edward Jones Dome.

No one gives a shite.

[doowop]

I have always been a huge advocate of women's athletics. (Athletics=sports: not cheerleading) I watched a lot of girls basketball in HS. I worked with my girlfriends that played quite a bit.

Short story: The girls varsity team at my high school was ranked #2 in the area. They were in the sectional rounds of the state playoffs and were playing a team that presses. The coach asked my coach of my .500 JV/all sophomore boys team if we would help them practice against a press. Our coach asked us if we would scrimmage them. I honestly thought they would beat us. Boy, was I wrong. Literally within the first couple minutes, the coaches had to tell us we could no longer use our arms at all on defense--quit stealing the ball on every possession and making a lay-up at the other end. I was astounded at the difference of level of the game. We literally could have beat them 100-0 and we were not even a good JV team and they were one of the top varsity teams in the state.

With all of that being said, I would watch just about any men's game High School Junior varsity on up over even the WNBA. It is nothing against the women as I have huge respect for their efforts but...(here comes the analogy that I once heard and I can never get out of my head)

"Watching women's basketball is like watching old people have sex."

No one wants to see that.

I actually had this discussion yesterday while in the VIP lounge at the Edward Jones dome waiting for the game to start and they had ESPN on showing the women's tourney. There just isn't enough talent available. There truly is only a handful of elite players coming into the game each year--hence the same 2-3 teams win constantly. The best players keep going to those same schools year after year. The gap in talent is obviously huge from the very top to even just the number 10-25 teams in the country. UCONN has a 70+ game win streak going as proof.

For those of you with daughters, keep them palying. There is some interest in the game outside of those directly related to the players. Some of the games get decent crowds.

UCLA WON 88 IN A ROW. Did that mean men's basketball was lacking talent. Just because the girls team you played was ranked #1 does not mean they were tgood. I have seen undefeated girls teams get blown away by teams of a lower rank. You men with your-anti women attitudes just don't know how good some women's teams are. Have you ever seen old people have sex?

[bsheldon]

fair enough.

[slufanskip]

I have always been a huge advocate of women's athletics. (Athletics=sports: not cheerleading) I watched a lot of girls basketball in HS. I worked with my girlfriends that played quite a bit.

Short story: The girls varsity team at my high school was ranked #2 in the area. They were in the sectional rounds of the state playoffs and were playing a team that presses. The coach asked my coach of my .500 JV/all sophomore boys team if we would help them practice against a press. Our coach asked us if we would scrimmage them. I honestly thought they would beat us. Boy, was I wrong. Literally within the first couple minutes, the coaches had to tell us we could no longer use our arms at all on defense--quit stealing the ball on every possession and making a lay-up at the other end. I was astounded at the difference of level of the game. We literally could have beat them 100-0 and we were not even a good JV team and they were one of the top varsity teams in the state.

With all of that being said, I would watch just about any men's game High School Junior varsity on up over even the WNBA. It is nothing against the women as I have huge respect for their efforts but...(here comes the analogy that I once heard and I can never get out of my head)

"Watching women's basketball is like watching old people have sex."

No one wants to see that.

I actually had this discussion yesterday while in the VIP lounge at the Edward Jones dome waiting for the game to start and they had ESPN on showing the women's tourney. There just isn't enough talent available. There truly is only a handful of elite players coming into the game each year--hence the same 2-3 teams win constantly. The best players keep going to those same schools year after year. The gap in talent is obviously huge from the very top to even just the number 10-25 teams in the country. UCONN has a 70+ game win streak going as proof.

For those of you with daughters, keep them palying. There is some interest in the game outside of those directly related to the players. Some of the games get decent crowds.

so why do you watch SLU play? I know there are teams that can beat them? It's not about whether the players are better than the men, it's about the competition.

[brianstl]

I hope you are being sarcastic.....Brian's idea is a terrible idea. Men and women are equal in the sense that they both have equal rights, but that does not mean they have equal athletic ability in all sports. Please tell me you are just joking.

Women and men compete with each other equally to get in college. More women go to college. Women and men compet with each other equally for academic scholarships. More women get academic scholarships. Women and men compete equally for financial aid to college. More women get financial aid. The reason why is more women try to go to college.

Should the government mandate equal results in those area just like it does when it comes to athletic scholarships? That is what they are doing with Title IX, even though more college bound men compete and are intrested in still competing in athletics than college bound women.

[bsheldon]

UCLA WON 88 IN A ROW. Did that mean men's basketball was lacking talent. Just because the girls team you played was ranked #1 does not mean they were tgood. I have seen undefeated girls teams get blown away by teams of a lower rank. You men with your-anti women attitudes just don't know how good some women's teams are. Have you ever seen old people have sex?

As to your question--No, and I don't want to. That is the point.

What would make them a good team then? They were something like 18-1. Just because they beat just about every team they played, does that mean those teams were better and just chose to let this team win? The last time I checked winning games is by definition what makes a good team good.

Lets not even go there trying to compare the men's game to the women's game--there really is nothing to compare. The athletic and physical advantages just don't make it fair. That is not sexist, just facts.

I am not saying that there is NO talent, just not nearly the supply of high-level talent as there currently is in the men's game. Heck, we have 2 #5's in this years final four. It wasn't an easy walk for the favorites like it seems to be for the best in the girl's game--because they truly are that much better than the other teams. In the men's game there were literally 20 teams that could have won it all--realistically. In the women's game--maybe 4?

I also am not saying that the women's game can't be fun and enjoyable, but none of that is really the point. The point is, if given the chance to watch a men's game or a women's game--which would be more enjoyable? (assuming a realistic chance of a competitive game) I choose the men's game. It is my opinion. If I offended you with my obviously objectionable analogy, I apologize.

[Quality Is Job 1]

UCLA WON 88 IN A ROW. Did that mean men's basketball was lacking talent. Just because the girls team you played was ranked #1 does not mean they were tgood. I have seen undefeated girls teams get blown away by teams of a lower rank. You men with your-anti women attitudes just don't know how good some women's teams are. Have you ever seen old people have sex?

So does not finding women's basketball particularly entertaining (compared to men's basketball) necessarily make a man a misogynist? What if that same man finds women's tennis more entertaining than men's tennis? And there's no doubt that there's a disparity between a man's average athletic ability and a woman's average athletic ability; to acknowledge or appreciate that disparity doesn't make a person hate one or the other (or shouldn't, anyway).

[Pistol]

Next thing you know, women will be allowed to vote, own property, and work outside the home. What is this world coming to?! Oh, won't someone think of the children?!

[brianstl]

Next thing you know, women will be allowed to vote, own property, and work outside the home. What is this world coming to?! Oh, won't someone think of the children?!

Yeah, because those issues have anything to do with or are in anyway similar to what is being argued here.

[Pistol]

Yeah, because those issues have anything to do with or are in anyway similar to what is being argued here.

Equal treatment of women?

[MB73]

why should men's football scholarships be taken out of the formula? other than about 40 bcs schools, in the overall picture (additional coaches, facilities, scholarships, staff assistants, department administration, insurance) football doesnt make money either.

no one is telling these schools to drop their men's nonrevenue sports, the individual schools make that decision on their own.

sorry, but women deserve equal dollars.

Roy, you oversimplify to support your agenda, that is not the issue.

Women should get the dollars they want, but NOT at the expense of mens sports.

More men play sports than women, numbers and %, a lot because men they play football and wrestle, etc, women do not.

So Title IX makes schools have to cut back on the mens sports.

It is that simple. Football is a big issue in the formula, of course.

(Not related to the argument, but in the interest of capitalism, and free markets, the fact is that men bring 95-98% of these schools revenue; but lets not go there).

Schools across the nation have cut mens teams in good sports like wrestling, track, soccer, swimming, soccer, etc because of Title IX.

Booming growth in mens ice hockey stopped as soon as Title IX passed.

There should be a way the gals get their schollies but schools that WANT to have mens scholies can do them, too, without a ridiculous governemtn formula. I know a BCS school were the gals get 20 schollies for track and cross country, and the men get 1.5. The school WANTS to give 20 to the men but the FORMULA made by government non athlete bureaucrats screws them over.

It is the formula that is the problem. I am not saying cut the womens $$$$ forchristsakes.

Maybe offer womens scholarships to play tackle football. Or wrestle?

[MB73]

Next thing you know, women will be allowed to vote, own property, and work outside the home. What is this world coming to?! Oh, won't someone think of the children?!

The topic is not related to any discrimination, though you are trying to play that card.

The issues is the government formula that takes away mens scholarships for kids that want to play and schools that want to field mens teams.

But they cannot. Title IX. Have you ever read about this? It is very complex.

Please do not try to make it a sexism thing.

[brianstl]

Equal treatment of women?

Like I said if it was an equal treatment issue we would make all sports coed and take only the best. This isn't about equal treatment, but rather trying to get equal results. Should we mandate equal results when it comes to college enrollment, graduation, academic scholarships, and receiving college financial aid where women all are represented in higher numbers by taking some of those chances away from women?

[Pistol]

Like I said if it was an equal treatment issue we would make all sports coed and take only the best. This isn't about equal treatment, but rather trying to get equal results. Should we mandate equal results when it comes to college enrollment, graduation, academic scholarships, and receiving college financial aid where women all are represented in higher numbers by taking some of those chances away from women?

What do you mean by 'equal results'?

MB73, please don't talk down to me. I have read plenty about the issue; I understand its complexity. It isn't perfect, but based on the attitudes I'm reading here, it is still as necessary now as ever.

Like I said before, this has been in place for nearly 40 years now. It's not like schools are suddenly dropping men's tennis for no good reason. If schools want scholarship football, they have to make some hard choices elsewhere.

[doowop]

So does not finding women's basketball particularly entertaining (compared to men's basketball) necessarily make a man a misogynist? What if that same man finds women's tennis more entertaining than men's tennis? And there's no doubt that there's a disparity between a man's average athletic ability and a woman's average athletic ability; to acknowledge or appreciate that disparity doesn't make a person hate one or the other (or shouldn't, anyway).

I am not talking about physical strength. I am talking about basketball talent. There are many women players who shoot a lot more accurately than men players and many who shoot free throws better. When UCLA was winning so many championships they were the ONLY team that had much of a chance of winning. I know the average male is a better athlete than the average female. However, men's athletics has been promoted a LOT longer than women's athletics. By the way, I like women's tennis much better than I like men's tennis. But I don't down men's tennis.

[doowop]

HAHAHAHA. You are exactly right! I would and have done that! I've got the better fielding percentage and the better arm! It's all about winning, so I'm gonna do what I can to help my team win!

Then play with all men. Would you run in front of a male whose fielding percenage is not as good as yours? You don't know if you have a better fielding percentage or not. I know women who would knock you on your butt for running in front of them.

[brianstl]

What do you mean by 'equal results'?

MB73, please don't talk down to me. I have read plenty about the issue; I understand its complexity. It isn't perfect, but based on the attitudes I'm reading here, it is still as necessary now as ever.

Like I said before, this has been in place for nearly 40 years now. It's not like schools are suddenly dropping men's tennis for no good reason. If schools want scholarship football, they have to make some hard choices elsewhere.

They went to have the same amount of women playing sports as men at the college level. That is impossible based on the number of women intrested in athletics. So to attain equal results they take spots away from men to reach an equal number. The problem is even worse when you go to sports below Division 1 were funding of sports teams is not the same.