a.j.

[p diddy]

a.j. arete,

you've been slamming slu players for a long time, but i have to call you out on your silly posts regarding liddell. to say he does not have the will to win and the implying that he signed with the a-10 because he doesn't want to be big time has to be the most ignorant, dumb-assed comments i've ever seen on the billiken board. and considering your body of work for stupidity, that's really saying something.

i guess players like jameer nelson, david west, mark macon, eddie jones, aaron mckie, marcus camby and countless others "settled' for the atlantic 10.

you obviously don't live in the state of illinois like the some of us like jalensdad and billiken roy. you don't take your team to the SuperSectionals of the Illinois Class AA Tournament TWICE in your career without having the "will to win." in the state of illinois, you have to go through sheer hell just to get to the state tournament. a sectional title in illinois is the equivalent of winning a state title in missouri.

sure, tommie needs a fire lit under him at times, but not having a will to win just reeks of being the ultimate playa-hata. maybe he didn't sign with a certain big XII school because he didn't feel like taking a payoff and going with an underachieving, low-character bunch that quits when things start getting tough.

you need to check yourself, little man.

i apologize to the rest of the fine billiken board posters, but i'm not going to let some damn fool who obviously has some kind of agenda continue to slam our boys for no reason.

i'm out

[Billiken75]

Thanks for standing up for Tommie pdiddy.

[kshoe]

I couldn't agree more with your comments about P-diddy. I read AJs posts this afternoon, responded as I felt appropriate and then watched a bunch of basketball this evening. But still later I thought about what AJ said about Tommie and it just pissed me off. AJ seems to be hell bent to rip on SLU recruits. If somebody like Jalensdad has a critique of Tommie I'll believe it to be very legitimate since he has Tommie's interests at heart. Jalensdad has credibility. AJ does not. Its that simple.

[Billikan]

AJ is now and always has been a jerk--he is not a Bills fan and I have said it before but I gave up. He was a Missouri fan who cannot claim his pathetic, gutless tigers who gave up against Kansas. He does not care about the Bills and he hopes thay lose. Anyone who has seen tommie play in person knows that AJ is full of it.

[aj_arete]

Noticed how he scored 38 and single-handedly led Vashon to victory. Granted, I wonder how well he'll thrive in a Soderberg system, but he's a guy who has the will to win.

You're right. I haven't seen Liddell as much as Billiken Roy, Jalensdad and others. Based my comments purely on the fact that Liddell didn't touch the ball for the last minute of every quarter against Vashon and the Riverfront Times article that implied a lack of passion. I don't disagree with anyone who says that he's the most talented player in the St. Louis area. It's just that you need more than talent to star in college.

As for other SLU recruits that I bashed in the past, Justin Johnson, Darren Clarke, and Anthony Drejaj, I just don't see where any of those recruits have shown me anything. I'll admit that Drejaj was better than I thought he'd be, but I still wonder if he'll ever start at SLU. Admittedly, I questioned Reggie Bryant because a previous coach of his at Villanova said he was a poor defender. However, I can see that Brad can turn any willing, athletic player into a defender. Yes, it's still early to judge any of those recruits, but I still don't see where my judgements have been that far off the mark.

As for the A-10, I still stand by my comment that it's not exactly a high-profile conference. Yes, there's talent in the league, but it's not that much of an upgrade over the MVC when Jameer Nelson and Soto leave.

[SLURadioBoy]

I think we're all big fans of Polk...even Bernie! "Finally: a quality point guard on Missouri's home floor. But it won't be of any use to Mizzou coach Quin Snyder; Polk is headed to St. Louis U."

"Praises we sing, to you our alma mater,

Praise to the white and blue.

Our hymn shall ring, in tribute strong to you,

We hail Saint Louis U."

Official Billikens.com sponsor of Andrew Latimer

[cheesycow]

He finally decided to recruit a point guard this year in Jason Horton.

[Taj79]

First he had no PG and tried to make Clarence Gilbert his point. Then he tried to turn Jimmy McKinney into a point. Dont' believe that's a record of success. Then we add Ricky Clemons into the mix. Followed by Randy Pulley. Now this guy .....

I frankly don't know if the guy can be an adequate judge of PG talent. And even if he was ...... his bench IQ will draw all that down to mediocre anyway.

[cheesycow]

Gilbert, McKinney, and Clemons were all 2 guards at heart. Jason Horton (i'm not holding my breath, he's not proven) looks to be a true point guard.

And I wouldn't be so quick to throw stones. Recruits have this weird way of not panning out. Neither of us should hold our breath for Horton or Polk until they've proven themselves at a collegiate level.

[aj_arete]

and all you can do for support is bring up four players who haven't played in the A-10 in almost a decade or more (Mark Macon, Marcus Camby, Aaron McKie and Eddie Jones??). Come on P Diddy, you can do better than that. Quite frankly, you're proving my point...

I'll tell you what's ignorant is when I hear people say how much SLU will struggle in the A-10. The A-10 is a step down from CUSA. SLU will do all right there.

[p diddy]

a.j.

don't EVER try to bring down a challenge like that to me. you will always come out second best. why you put yourself in a such a lightweight position time after time is beyond me.

if you want a few atlantic 10 players of more recent vintage:

Jameer Nelson: National Player of the Year (2004)

David West (Xavier): National Player of the Year by some media outlets (2003)

J.R. Bremer (St. Bonaventure, '02): starting guard for the Boston Celtics in eastern conference finals

Cuttino Mobley (Rhode Island, Final Eight '99): Houston Rockets, one of the top shooters in the NBA.

Lamar Odom (Rhode Island, '00): Miami Heat, Top 10 pick

James Posey (Xavier, '98) NBA starter

Romain Sato (Xavier '04): better than Rickey Paulding

Marvin O'Conner (St. Joseph's '02) Scored 38 points vs. No. 1 seed Stanford in NCAA Tournament game.

Tyson Wheeler (Rhode Island): Ask the Kansas Jayhawks (Paul Pierce, Lafrentz, Gregory) how good this guard was.

Pepe Sanchez (Temple '01): starting guard for argentina's team that whipped the USA All-NBA team last year.

there are others on the list who were simply outstanding college players such as:

lynn greer (temple), mark karcher (temple), lionel chalmers (xavier), rasaul butler (lasalle), lamont barnes (temple), lenny brown and gary lumpkin (xavier), shawnta rodgers (g. washington)

i know you've probably never heard of any other those players.

a.j.

as you can see, all of these players played in the a-10 in the last five or six years. when you lack so much knowledge about a certain subject you always find yourself in a situation where you look extremely stupid and foolish. or as i stated before "ignorant and dumb-assed"

any time you want a little more knowledge, don't hesitate to ask.

bad boyz for life

[Billikan]

A slam dunk over the ignorant and anti Billiken AJ!!!!!!

[worthington]

The following lists are based upon NBA Opening-Day rosters for the 2003-04 season. player on the suspended list at the start of the 2003-2004 NBA season.

Players

Conference in NBA

Atlantic Coast (9) 51

Big East (14) 41

Pacific 10 (10) 41

Big Ten (11) 38

Southeastern (12) 38

Big 12 (12) 27

Conference USA (14) 25

Atlantic 10 (12) 17

Mountain West (8) 13

Mid-American (13) 12

Western Athletic (10) 12

Sun Belt (11) 5

West Coast (8) 5

Big West (10) 4

Missouri Valley (10) 3

Horizon (9) 2

Ohio Valley (11) 2

Colonial Athletic (10) 2

Southland (11) 2

Southwestern (10) 2

Mid-Continent (9) 1

Mid-Eastern (11) 1

Patriot (8) 1

Southern (12) 1

America East (10) 1

Atlantic Sun (11) 0

Big Sky (8) 0

Big South (9) 0

Independents (4) 0

Ivy League (8) 0

Metro Atlantic (10) 0

Northeast (11) 0

No College 20

Non-Division I 13

Foreign 44

Total 424

[worthington]

See more @ http://www.rpiratings.com/NBA.html

The following lists are based upon NBA Opening-Day rosters for the 2003-04 season.

Players

Conference in NBA

Atlantic Coast (9) 51

Big East (14) 41

Pacific 10 (10) 41

Big Ten (11) 38

Southeastern (12) 38

Big 12 (12) 27

Conference USA (14) 25

Atlantic 10 (12) 17

Mountain West (8) 13

Mid-American (13) 12

Western Athletic (10) 12

Sun Belt (11) 5

West Coast (8) 5

Big West (10) 4

Missouri Valley (10) 3

Horizon (9) 2

Ohio Valley (11) 2

Colonial Athletic (10) 2

Southland (11) 2

Southwestern (10) 2

Mid-Continent (9) 1

Mid-Eastern (11) 1

Patriot (8) 1

Southern (12) 1

America East (10) 1

Atlantic Sun (11) 0

Big Sky (8) 0

Big South (9) 0

Independents (4) 0

Ivy League (8) 0

Metro Atlantic (10) 0

Northeast (11) 0

No College 20

Non-Division I 13

Foreign 44

Total 424

See more @ http://www.rpiratings.com/NBA.html

[cheesycow]

What agenda could AJ possibly have? So he's not hailing Lidell as the second coming of Basketball Jesus. Big deal. He raised a question he had as to whether or not TL had the "will to win." Rather than bash AJ (and missouri high school basketball), why not explain why you disagree with him in a more calm manner instead of thumping your chest like we're on some playground and you just "dissed somebody who had to playa hate on ya homeboy."

[Taj79]

.... the first being that Q-tip may not be the greatest judge of point guard talent in the world. I don't care what Gilbert, McKinney and Clemons were (and I agree that at least McKinney and Gilbert were indeed 2Gs) Q-tip saw need and/or reason to make them his points. You are wrong on Clemons ... Ricky was listed on many services as either the first or second JUCO PG available the year of his recruitment. Not 2G ... but PG. Of course, so was Pulley so what does that tell you about ranking services? Two words twice .... Mel Kiper and Patrick Jirsa. Neither knew much but portrayed themselves as experts and each went in drastically different directions. My point is that to date, Q-tip doesn't appear to be the brightest when it comes to PGs .... either real PGs or those he tries to mold into one. As a matter of fact, is the real problem at SPUMAC the inability to get a true PG in to run that talented circus out there? All the pundits (again believe who you want) say the most key position in the college game is the PG. Name the last good one SPUMAC had.

I agree with you on your second point .... I too don't know how either Horton or Polk will turn out. We both can hope.

Q-tip ain't the only one by the way .... remember Spoon recruited Marque Perry and projected him at the point. He was a 6'1" small forward in high school and had to learn the point once he got here. I, for one, say he's still learning and wasn't a true point in the finest sense of the position. It seems that with more options, he is somewhat better in the NBDL. But I have to ask ... if he is indeed better, why hasn't anyone "called" him up?

[p diddy]

cheesycow,

there's nothing wrong with a.j. having an objective opinion about liddell or any other player. as a matter of fact, i agree with him on several of his points. he is probably a billiken fan as well, but he still looks at things through black and gold glasses. with that in mind, his objectivity sometimes comes off as playa-hatin'.

he may cheer if slu does something positive, but he has enough of that mizzou fan in him that has to keep little brother in his place. it is so transparent that we all recognize it to be pretty condescending. and he has been like that on this board for as long as i can remember.

hughes is not as good as mckinney, perry cannot hold mckinney's jock are just a few of the highlights.

there's nothing wrong with being a mizzou fan. i take it you are a tiger fan as well, but i haven't challenged you on this board, haven't i.

if a.j. want to question liddell's passivity on the court, that's fine. I think he should be more selfish, myself, but he is a point guard and that is how he approaches the game. i've watched paulding play for four years and he's spent much of his career deferring to others, whether it was kareem, arthur, clemons) you have to prod him to take over. on television, the same is said about gordon of uconn and he is probably the best shooting guard in the country. some kids just need a little prodding to get the best out of him. liddell is in that category. he can be as good as he wants to be and he will be the one who determines that. if a.j. wants to question that, cool. that's fine, but he went beyond and that's when he gets his ass kicked on this board.

but to question a kid's will to win and question why he would consider going to slu and the a-10 because he is stepping down was downright ridiculous.

bad boyz for life

[aj_arete]

I see you've gone to great lengths to support your 'case'. Thankfully, you don't have to go back to the 80s again.

So in summary, what are you saying? The Atlantic 10 is on par with the SEC, Big 12, and Big East?? If so, why don't they have a national package that we fans can see this great conference on either ESPN or Fox Sports.

Now I could conduct research, but Worthington has already done it. The Atlantic 10 is indeed better than the MVC, which I've already stated (hence, reference to upgraded MVC). However, they lag behind the major conferences and are surely not as good as the current CUSA in terms of quality depth and talent.

Now take a deep breath, calm down, and realize I'm not the enemy here.

[Quality Is Job 1]

So, that's 17 NBA players from A-10 schools compared to 3 NBA players from Missouri Valley schools. I imagine those three include Troy Hudson (Southern Illinois), who actually started at a Big 8 (Big XII) school.

[aj_arete]

and leads the MAC by 5 in current NBA players according to Worthington's research. Exactly what point are you making? I see the Atlantic 10 as an elite mid-major conference, nothing more, nothing less.

If anyone thinks Brad Soderberg is pleased that CUSA is splitting apart, I think we're being a little naive.

[Quality Is Job 1]

Don't change the subject. No one has said either that Brad Soderberg is glad the Conference USA as we know it is dissolving or that the A-10 is or will be as good as C-USA is. All we've been saying is that, since the dissolution of C-USA as a power conference makes it necessary for SLU to consider its options, the A-10 is the best option (compared to staying in C-USA or moving to the Missouri Valley, MAC, or Horizon). No matter how much you want to keep "little" SLU subservient to Mizzou, the evidence says SLU is doing the best thing to improve its fortunes without cheating. Stop providing Jeff Gordon and Bernie Miklasz so much material.

[aj_arete]

that SLU chosed the best option in opting for the A-10 over the MVC. Check previous threads where we had the MVC debate. I've always defended SLU's move to not go to the MVC.

But let's deal in reality, the A-10 is an elite mid-major conference. Given SLU's admission policies, values and ethics, I think it's a good move for them.

Just don't give us this bull how much better the A-10 is over the MVC and other mid-major conferences. I'm not buying it.

[Mobile-iken]

P Diddy...My new favorite poster!!!

[p diddy]

no, i do not have to research my information at all. it's all there in my little head. i think we all would love to stay in the c-usa as it stands now because it has moved into the top shelf of conferences in the nation, but we all know that is not possible because of football. i personally hate it that the league is breaking up because of football. the new c-usa will be a major drop off. every team that won the c-usa tournament is leaving for another league. no remaining cusa teams have won the tournament.

NOBODY on this board from my memory has said that the a 10 is better than the cusa, but it's a good quality league that is in the top 10 and the addition of slu and charlotte makes it better and more competitive. it's not a top five league, but neither was the cusa before this year. if richmond (who won at kansas) makes it in, they will get four teams in the ncaa today. that will be just as many as the big 12 and more than what the big 10 and pac 10 will get.

as for the billikens have produced two winning seasons and two postseason berths and appear to have a direction for the future with solid standing. from what i can see, sodes seems to be trying to do what bennett did at wisconsin. he is trying to reach his goals through hard work and no short cuts. to be in it for the long haul, it may take some time, but the results are so far so good. if slu continues to upgrade our talent and athleticism, the program will flourish. you take short cuts, that success you have initially is just fool's gold.

a solid foundation seems to be laid down with several veterans back, the reopening of local recruiting pipelines, a new building and a few young players who can develop. if this continues, slu should enter the a 10 with a team that should be ready to challenge for the conference and get into the ncaa.

i don't think slu fans want to see a repeat of the years when we would go to the ncaa and have great success, yet drop off the face of the earth when key players (claggs, highmark, H, or Hughes) leave the program. we lost marque and kenny and we had a better record instead of dropping off big. that's the progress i like.

[Schasz]

Wasn't the greasy slimeball a PG at Duke???