Big East Shake-up?

[WVBilliken]

I just got finished listening to a Charleston, WV WCHS AM 580 sports show interview of former Big East Commissioner Mike Tranghese. Apparently he has been hired by the University of Memphis to help them get to a BCS conference. It sounded like right now they are looking mostly at the Big East conference as the logical choice since they have traditional rivals like Cincinnati and Louisville in the conference. They talked about the other BCS conferences and concluded that they were either not a fit or they were not interested. The SEC was specifically mentioned as not interested. Tranghese also said a football only affiliation was not in the cards.

After Traghese got off the air the hosts of the sports talk show talked about the interview and even mentioned that this would probably really throw the Big East in a confusing state. 17 teams make no sense, especially 9 football and 8 basketball. They said that the "little Jesuit basketball schools would probably be squeezed out". They also said that basketball facilities at Memphis were up to Big East standards but the football facilities would have to have major upgrades.

It is probably a couple of years away but I can hear the Big East cracking and SLU better get ready so they can take advantage of the breakup. We need to have a top third of the A10 team soon.

[Cowboy]

-i heard an interview with tranghese a couple of years ago and he impressed the heck out of me, i don't recall who the interviewer was as i would like to find it online to listen again

-the interview was lengthy and it went through the formation of the big east and the impact it had on the college sports landscape

-if he is as good as he was on that interview i would not bet against memphis getting where they want to go, seems a great move by memphis to get him on their side

[TheA_Bomb]

Memphis has been off and on in football lately so that would fit in with the rest of the Big Least teams. I haven't been to one of their stadiums but I gotta think Memphis' facilities are equal to most of those other teams.

Hopefully it happens. They must be serious about it hiring a big name consultant.

[kshoe]

Sounds like wishful thinking on Memphis' behalf if you ask me.

[Clock_Tower]

Memphis has peaked and now can only decline. The question is not "if" they decline but instead is "how much" they decline. By not winning the National Championship, losing Calipari, now facing probation and the loss of scholarships while being mired in the weak Conf USA, I just don't see them getting back to the such good team with gaudy records. Their time to move was 1 to 5 years ago. Moving now will be alot tougher. Memphis is still an attractive team but the basketball/academic qualifying scandal will hurt them. Not that there is ever a good time for such scandal/probation, but to be going on probation when you are looking to change conferences is simply not a good time.

As football, they play on campus in the "Liberty Bowl" and, if I am correct, have an alum by the name of Isaac Bruce.

[courtside]

-i heard an interview with tranghese a couple of years ago and he impressed the heck out of me, i don't recall who the interviewer was as i would like to find it online to listen again

-the interview was lengthy and it went through the formation of the big east and the impact it had on the college sports landscape

-if he is as good as he was on that interview i would not bet against memphis getting where they want to go, seems a great move by memphis to get him on their side

Tranghese is very good at his job.

[Guest BillikenReport]

Memphis has peaked and now can only decline. The question is not "if" they decline but instead is "how much" they decline. By not winning the National Championship, losing Calipari, now facing probation and the loss of scholarships while being mired in the weak Conf USA, I just don't see them getting back to the such good team with gaudy records.

I agree with you on this because, honestly, there's no way to go but down after winning a record number of games in recent years and getting to the NCAA championship game.

But since Cal left the Tigers have been able to get verbal commitments from two McDonald's All-America-type guards, so there will be some talent there to keep Memphis at a high level. This year should be a struggle because they are hurting in numbers, but the following season I think you'll see the Tigers jump back into the mix as being one of the better teams in college hoops.

[Clock_Tower]

I agree with you on this because, honestly, there's no way to go but down after winning a record number of games in recent years and getting to the NCAA championship game.

But since Cal left the Tigers have been able to get verbal commitments from two McDonald's All-America-type guards, so there will be some talent there to keep Memphis at a high level. This year should be a struggle because they are hurting in numbers, but the following season I think you'll see the Tigers jump back into the mix as being one of the better teams in college hoops.

BR. Good points. Not saying they will become awful. Memphis has, and most likely, always will get its share of talent. Being a large, urban state school, with a long history of success, with football and with a large sports budget, is quite appealing to recruits. Without the right head coach, though, talent does not equal high level success. Case in point: Larry Finch.

Does Memphis have the right coach? Maybe. Josh Pastner, though, is totally unproven and only 31 years old -- soon to be 32. This year will be even tougher. Not only is the top talent gone but just last month, his 6'11" center, Angel Garcia, blew his knee out and is done for the year. Add to this, the likely probation and loss of scholarships -- I just hope that equal probation and loss of scholarships would follow Calipari to Kentucky -- and it will be difficult for Memphis to keep going undefeated in Conf USA and remain in the Top 10.

Don't get me wrong. I don't want Memphis to fail. Instead, I want to join Memphis in a new, better confernce somewhere. BTW, for those fixated with geographic rivalries, Memphis is only 4 hours away, is Mississippi River city like St. Louis and has been a conference rival dating back to the Metro and then Conf USA.

Memphis, St. Louis, Xavier and Dayton, UNC Charlotte would be a good start. More likely, Memphis should/will join a football conference. The Big East did not want to add too many football schools and Memphis, therefore, was left out. If Memphis and another football school is able to get in the Big East, or gets into another BCS conference which then starts a conference chain reaction, then the Big East conference will split and SLU better be ready and be an attractive candidate for any new conference.

[kevinfootes]

I agree with you on this because, honestly, there's no way to go but down after winning a record number of games in recent years and getting to the NCAA championship game.

But since Cal left the Tigers have been able to get verbal commitments from two McDonald's All-America-type guards, so there will be some talent there to keep Memphis at a high level. This year should be a struggle because they are hurting in numbers, but the following season I think you'll see the Tigers jump back into the mix as being one of the better teams in college hoops.

Memphis has been up and down over the years, but they've had some very sucessful teams. It's safe to call them a traditional powerhouse IMO. The basketball program doesn't seem to be hurting for funding, so I wouldn't be surprised to see them continue as a big dance team.

[Clock_Tower]

Memphis has been up and down over the years, but they've had some very sucessful teams. It's safe to call them a traditional powerhouse IMO. The basketball program doesn't seem to be hurting for funding, so I wouldn't be surprised to see them continue as a big dance team.

Traditional powerhouse = big dance team?? Good stuff.

[Hawk]

Memphis has been up and down over the years, but they've had some very sucessful teams. It's safe to call them a traditional powerhouse IMO. The basketball program doesn't seem to be hurting for funding, so I wouldn't be surprised to see them continue as a big dance team.

There are a lot of teams ahead of Memphis in terms of being a traditional powerhouse... Kansas, Kentucky, UNC, UCLA, Michigan, Michigan State, Georgetown, Arizona, and maybe UConn and Duke too. I'm not even sure if Memphis is in that discussion.

[Taj79]

I see Memphis as a high, second-tier level school. They make occasional forays into the national consciousness (Larry Kenon, Larry Finch, Keith Lee, these past few years) but do take occasional time off (more than the occasional year here or there). Not the blue blood royalty that others mention. Wannabees, kind of like Rodney Dangerfield wanting to buy Bushwood.

What makes Memphis stand out to me, much like Louisville, is how they "travel." They both pack the stands no matter where they play --- red for the Cards, Blue for the Tigers. Mucho dinero in them thar boosters. And as long as they both bring the dance teams, count me in. We on the other hand, travel like crap and I, at 51, bring the median age group down when I go. We are a nice conference "filler" team right now. As for Charlotte, they are in that NC corridor where every school has or is starting football. I hear Charlotte is in the midst of doing that. That will bounce them up to a Umass or James Madison or Elon or Appalachin State level of a school. Not that that is lower or higher than A10 schools, but in a different need level ---- they'll need like-mined schools in a like-minded conference to compete. I mentioned four, but others include Delaware, Bill & Mary, Richmond and other Division 1AA or whatever they are football schools.

The ties that bind us to Charlotte are steadily fraying. I too still am awaiting the Papal Conference miracle but that will NEVER happen. Neither will downgrading and going to a regional, state-school dominated conference with a bunch of directional schools.

[Clock_Tower]

Again. I hope for the best for Memphis but past comparisons are when Memphis was in a good conference. Now, they have a 31 year old unproven coach and, for now, are in a bad conference. To be a traditional powerhouse will be tough.

[kevinfootes]

Traditional powerhouse = big dance team?? Good stuff.

3 Final 4 appearances, 6 times in the Elite 8, 11 times in the Sweet 16. A bunch of players named as All-Americans. Maybe not UCLA, Kansas, Duke, Kentucky, etc... but they seem to stack up pretty well IMO. That's pretty "good stuff" in my opinion.

Are you saying that Memphis hasn't been one of the best programs, especially since the early '70s?

They've made it to the final 4 in 3 different decades, so it's not as if they haven't been able to bounce back in the past.

[kevinfootes]

Again. I hope for the best for Memphis but past comparisons are when Memphis was in a good conference. Now, they have a 31 year old unproven coach and, for now, are in a bad conference. To be a traditional powerhouse will be tough.

Huh? Memphis has never been in one of the top conferences. Even at it's peak, CUSA was about #6. They were in the Metro and the Valley before that. None of those conferences were as good as the ACC, Big 10, SEC, Big 8/12, Pac 10 on a regular basis. They had some excellent teams, but weren't as strong top-to-bottom.

CUSA has been really bad conference for a few years. How has that changed?

[Clock_Tower]

3 Final 4 appearances, 6 times in the Elite 8, 11 times in the Sweet 16. A bunch of players named as All-Americans. Maybe not UCLA, Kansas, Duke, Kentucky, etc... but they seem to stack up pretty well IMO. That's pretty "good stuff" in my opinion.

Are you saying that Memphis hasn't been one of the best programs, especially since the early '70s?

They've made it to the final 4 in 3 different decades, so it's not as if they haven't been able to bounce back in the past.

No Footes. That's not what I'm saying.

Re-read your dumb post. You called Memphis a "traditional powerhouse" and then you make the ever so bold statement that you "wouldn't be surprised to see them continue as a big dance team." The big dance, of course, has the Top 40 to 65 teams depending on automatic conference qualifiers. Therefore, you actually are prognosticating that Memphis will be a Top 40 team!! Wow - what a prediction!! What's next? Duke will also be "a big dance team"!!

[kevinfootes]

No Footes. That's not what I'm saying.

Re-read your dumb post. You called Memphis a "traditional powerhouse" and then you make the ever so bold statement that you "wouldn't be surprised to see them continue as a big dance team." The big dance, of course, has the Top 40 to 65 teams depending on automatic conference qualifiers. Therefore, you actually are prognosticating that Memphis will be a Top 40 team!! Wow - what a prediction!! What's next? Duke will also be "a big dance team"!!

Wow, you have sunk to a new level of being a troll! You took a stupid cheapshot at me and are now scrambling because you've been called out. I think Nate said that he expected Memphis to decline. I responded that they have been successful for a long time, and later pointed out that it has happened through several different eras. They may decline from being the #2 team in the country, but I'm willing to bet that they'll still be a regular in the big dance and will once again be a elite 8 or final 4 type team again. Wow, what a "dumb" comment!

Now why don't you explain your stupid comment about Memphis not being in a good conference any more? They were only in a good conference for about 10 years of their entire history! They made it to the championship game a couple of years ago from a bad conference. Now you're telling us that might be a problem for them. Wow, you're really smart!

They've actually done better when they haven't been in a good conference. Maybe you should re-read your dumb post and explain that one. I wish I could make really smart comments like that one! LMOA!!!!!!!!

[Clock_Tower]

Wow, you have sunk to a new level of being a troll! You took a stupid cheapshot at me and are now scrambling because you've been called out. I think Nate said that he expected Memphis to decline. I responded that they have been successful for a long time, and later pointed out that it has happened through several different eras. They may decline from being the #2 team in the country, but I'm willing to bet that they'll still be a regular in the big dance and will once again be a elite 8 or final 4 type team again. Wow, what a "dumb" comment!

Now why don't you explain your stupid comment about Memphis not being in a good conference any more? They were only in a good conference for about 10 years of their entire history! They made it to the championship game a couple of years ago from a bad conference. Now you're telling us that might be a problem for them. Wow, you're really smart!

They've actually done better when they haven't been in a good conference. Maybe you should re-read your dumb post and explain that one. I wish I could make really smart comments like that one! LMOA!!!!!!!!

Footes.

Good stuff. Just to clarify, though, you are the one responding to me. I am not "trolling". Normally, I just leave the posts you start alone.

Now, though, after you have edited your comments, I find no fault anymore. Traditional powerhouses not only make the big dance every year but also, as you mention, get to the elite 8 and final four every so often. You didn't mention that in your earlier posts.

Since apparently you want to talk about Memphis' basketball history, I'll respond. You are correnct in that, even before the importance of confererences in the modern era, Memphis has had a rich basketball history. Since the modern era when conference affiliation has proven that it can make or break programs, Memphis has also always been associated with other good teams -- Louisville, Cincy, etc. I don't agree, though, that Memphis has only been in a good conference for only 10 years. Guess it may depend upon one's definition of a good conference. From top to bottom, the Metro, Great Midwest and Conf USA have not been the strongest conference in the country. At the same time, Louisville teams of the 1970's and 1980's were really, really good. After leaving Louisville, Memphis was in a confernce with Cincy in the Great Midwest (along with us, Marquette and DePaul). IMO, some of those early Cincy/Huggins teams were his strongest teams. Following the Great Midwest, Memphis then was in Conf USA - still with Cincy and others but this time adding Louisville. Go back and re-count and I think you will find more than 10 years worth in their history.

Now that I guess I have been "called out" by you, understand that Calipari was at Memphis for 9 years. When he agreed to come to Memphis, they were still in the tough Conf USA and I would suggest that Memphis was alot more attractive then than they are now. The real question is would Calipari have come to Memphis as it exists today. I'm not so sure he would. Conf USA is not what it was 9 years ago and now is not a good fit for them -- that is the whole part of this thread. Has Memphis had some of their greatest success these past years while in a bad conference? Of course. You aren't actually suggesting that this bad conference is the secret behind their success? Instead, I'd suggest that they have won despite their conference and that Memphis landed their coach and had been landing their recruits and laying the groundwork for the recent success prior to the break-up of Conf USA. Also, due to the efforts of Calipari (both legal and now we find in violation of NCAA rules), Memphis has been able to reach very high levels.

If Memphis was such an attractive program and if coaches thought it would remain a "traditional powerhouse," why did they hire an unproven 31 year old? Where were all of the successful D-1 college head coaches looking to upgrade to a traditional powerhouse? I'm saying that with this unknown 31 year old coach at the helm, with an NCAA investigation and probation/loss of scholarhips looming, w/o Louisville, Cincy and others in their conference, and recognizing that college basketball, in the modern era we are in, is such that conferences can make or break a program. I repeat that it will be difficult to keep Memphis at the level it has been these past 30 years (not just the recent #2 ranking) unless Memphis changes conferences. If and when they change conferences, I am hoping it is with our Bills. Now is the time to keep ties with our former rivals.

[kevinfootes]

Footes.

Good stuff. Just to clarify, though, you are the one responding to me. I am not "trolling". Normally, I just leave the posts you start alone.

Bullsh!t, clock. My intial reply in this thread was to Nate, not you. Besides, there's not way you could possibly consider that post to be trolling. You, on the other hand, responded to me with a cheapshot. Hence, you're the troll here partner.

If you can acknowledge the fact that, at best, you're mistaken and a worst you're flat out lying, I'll bother to read the rest of your post.

[Quality Is Job 1]

Bullsh!t, clock. My intial reply in this thread was to Nate, not you. Besides, there's not way you could possibly consider that post to be trolling. You, on the other hand, responded to me with a cheapshot. Hence, you're the troll here partner.

If you can acknowledge the fact that, at best, you're mistaken and a worst you're flat out lying, I'll bother to read the rest of your post.

In fact, Footes, he expressed agreement with you in the rest of his post.

[Clock_Tower]

Bullsh!t, clock. My intial reply in this thread was to Nate, not you. Besides, there's not way you could possibly consider that post to be trolling. You, on the other hand, responded to me with a cheapshot. Hence, you're the troll here partner.

If you can acknowledge the fact that, at best, you're mistaken and a worst you're flat out lying, I'll bother to read the rest of your post.

Footes. Pointing out that you made a statement that even you later changed is not a "cheap shot" and does not constitute "trolling." I have never accused you of trolling. Instead, I have pointed out, and quite clearly, that you were wrong. Stop taking things so personally and move on.

[kevinfootes]

Footes. Pointing out that you made a statement that even you later changed is not a "cheap shot" and does not constitute "trolling." I have never accused you of trolling. Instead, I have pointed out, and quite clearly, that you were wrong. Stop taking things so personally and move on.

You can't even admit that you were wrong about the order of events here. I didn't respond to your post. The fact that you won't own up to it is the clincher that you're simply a liar. Why can't you acknowldege this, clock?

You've proven zero here. I think it's safe to call Memphis a powerhouse. They've been better than about 95% of the teams playing D1...3 final 4s, etc.

If they start losing for a few years in a row, I might change my thoughts on this. You've come to a conclusion without watching them play a game. To say a program is in decline because they "only" make the sweet 16 instead of the final 4 is a bit of a stretch.

[Clock_Tower]

You can't even admit that you were wrong about the order of events here. I didn't respond to your post. The fact that you won't own up to it is the clincher that you're simply a liar. Why can't you acknowldege this, clock?

You've proven zero here. I think it's safe to call Memphis a powerhouse. They've been better than about 95% of the teams playing D1...3 final 4s, etc.

If they start losing for a few years in a row, I might change my thoughts on this. You've come to a conclusion without watching them play a game. To say a program is in decline because they "only" make the sweet 16 instead of the final 4 is a bit of a stretch.

Footes. Whatever got your panties in a wad, I truly hope you get it fixed.

As to Memphis, I have seen them play, in person and on TV, numerous times. Conf Tournament games... Not near the atmosphere and difficulty, IMO, playing against Memphis at the Pyramid v., for instance, Cincy at the Shoe. Don't get me wrong, the Memphis fans turn out in numbers, wear nothing but blue and white and love their Tigers. Now, playing at the FedEX forum and emptying onto Beal Street afterward is really cool. Still, an NBA arena and not quite as intimidating as the Shoe. I know this since one of my best friends for the last 20 yeasrs is from Memphis and have gone with him to visit his family to Memphis. His parents (Father is a SLU Law grad from '66 or '68) are diehard Tiger fans have had season tickets for over 20 years. Not seeing Memphis in St. Louis each year/every other years, frankly, has been abit disappointing to m. But don't let things you have no clue about get in the way of your opinion.

Also, I never said they would make "only" the sweet 16 as opposed to the Final Four. All of that is your distraction after the fact.

I also never said they haven't been a really good program over the years. As you point out, 3 final fours over the years, and with different coaches, is the sign of a really good program as opposed to a single good coach.

As to waiting 3 years or so, I don't understand. I made a "prediction" that Memphis and their program will drop (not to sub .500 levels) for the purpose, and in the context of the thread, that Memphis is looking for a new conference and that if they find one, it will likely affect our Bills. Instead, you turned this whole thread personal as you have done with other posters. Guess that's what you enjoy doing.

Since you didn't respond to my prior posts about Memphis, I can only assume that you are still trying to read it or that you agree. In either, event, I see no purpose to restate the same now.

[kevinfootes]

Footes. Whatever got your panties in a wad, I truly hope you get it fixed.

As to Memphis, I have seen them play, in person and on TV, numerous times. Conf Tournament games... Not near the atmosphere and difficulty, IMO, playing against Memphis at the Pyramid v., for instance, Cincy at the Shoe. Don't get me wrong, the Memphis fans turn out in numbers, wear nothing but blue and white and love their Tigers. Now, playing at the FedEX forum and emptying onto Beal Street afterward is really cool. Still, an NBA arena and not quite as intimidating as the Shoe. I know this since one of my best friends for the last 20 yeasrs is from Memphis and have gone with him to visit his family to Memphis. His parents (Father is a SLU Law grad from '66 or '68) are diehard Tiger fans have had season tickets for over 20 years. Not seeing Memphis in St. Louis each year/every other years, frankly, has been abit disappointing to m. But don't let things you have no clue about get in the way of your opinion.

Also, I never said they would make "only" the sweet 16 as opposed to the Final Four. All of that is your distraction after the fact.

I also never said they haven't been a really good program over the years. As you point out, 3 final fours over the years, and with different coaches, is the sign of a really good program as opposed to a single good coach.

As to waiting 3 years or so, I don't understand. I made a "prediction" that Memphis and their program will drop (not to sub .500 levels) for the purpose, and in the context of the thread, that Memphis is looking for a new conference and that if they find one, it will likely affect our Bills. Instead, you turned this whole thread personal as you have done with other posters. Guess that's what you enjoy doing.

Since you didn't respond to my prior posts about Memphis, I can only assume that you are still trying to read it or that you agree. In either, event, I see no purpose to restate the same now.

First of all, you still won't acknowledge your lie. This is nothing but a big smokescreen on your part to cover up the fact that you are wrong.

Now that I've read your posts, I see that you are just scrambling here. I originally posted that "it's safe to say Memphis is a traditional powerhouse". I'm still not sure how you can dispute that. In fact, you've agreed with me.

Come on clock, just admit that you came into this thread to take a cheapshot at me. You were critical that I called Memphis a traditional powerhouse, and now you've changed your tune. Hey, I don't care if you want to take cheapshots. Just be man enough to admit when you're doing it.

If you want to predict that Memphis won't be good in the future, fine. That doesn't change what's happened in the past. My point was that Memphis has been successful over the long haul, and I think they will be again. If you want to disagree, that's fine too. We're talking about opinion here. If you want to take cheapshots over my opinions, that's fine. Be a troll, just don't be shocked when you get called out.

BTW, I'm not even a Memphis fan. They have a long history of cheating. I'm simply acknowleding their on-court success.

[Clock_Tower]

First of all, you still won't acknowledge your lie. This is nothing but a big smokescreen on your part to cover up the fact that you are wrong.

Now that I've read your posts, I see that you are just scrambling here. I originally posted that "it's safe to say Memphis is a traditional powerhouse". I'm still not sure how you can dispute that. In fact, you've agreed with me.

Come on clock, just admit that you came into this thread to take a cheapshot at me. You were critical that I called Memphis a traditional powerhouse, and now you've changed your tune. Hey, I don't care if you want to take cheapshots. Just be man enough to admit when you're doing it.

If you want to predict that Memphis won't be good in the future, fine. That doesn't change what's happened in the past. My point was that Memphis has been successful over the long haul, and I think they will be again. If you want to disagree, that's fine too. We're talking about opinion here. If you want to take cheapshots over my opinions, that's fine. Be a troll, just don't be shocked when you get called out.

BTW, I'm not even a Memphis fan. They have a long history of cheating. I'm simply acknowleding their on-court success.

Footes in Mouth. Are you just slow or what? "Now that I have read your posts" you write?? Do you make it a practice to respond w/o first reading? Try reading your own post (above) in which you both claim I took a cheap shot on you and then later say "that's fine" Obviously, after reading your pathetic posts, it is NOT fine with you.

Last time. I will try to type slower so that you might comprehend better. I mentioned that Memphis will drop and the only question is how much. Agree or disagree with that - that is your choice. Instead, you feel the need to add your comments even if you little to add. This week you comments are with me. Last week it was with ..... Next week it will be with ..... Whatever.

Instead, I simply boiled down your earlier post - in which you disagreed w/ me - in saying NOT ONLY that Memphis is a "traditional powerhouse" BUT ALSO that they would remain a "big dance team." Hence, my post traditional powerhouse = big dance team. This, once again, is just another of your long line of great contributions to Billikens.com. Thank you again for all your profound comments. For some reason, you call this a cheap shot. What's the differnce if you are "fine" with it?