Good News RE SLU Tuition

[TheA_Bomb]

Fr. Biondi S.J., just emailed me and wrote that due to the tough economic times SLU tuition will only go up 2% next year. Law School to go up 3% and Med 2%. No professors/staff will get a raise except those contractually obligated previously (sorry Dr. B.).

Just thought I'd pass this on to anyone who has to pay for this stuff.

Did you know that as a distance education student you have to pay activity fees?

I guess 2% is an improvement over the standard 7 to 8%.

[bleedtheblue]

this is good news cuz this semester destroyed my gpa haha but my scholarships for now are still intact

[Taj79]

When you deal with "funny money," what does it matter? Tuition is like "taxpayer dollars." Anybody ever seen one of those? How do you differentiate between a "real" dollar and a "taxpayer" dollar? Are they different colors --- regular money is green, taxpayer dollars are tutti-fruiti-colored?

As a dad who pays tuition at two different colleges right now, tuition is imaginary. Bunch of old fart trustees sitting around a room (used to be filled with cigar smoke when that was politically correct and you could smoke in buildings somewhere), aying "Gee Thaddeus, does $35,000 sound good to you?" "I don't know Auggie, how about $40?" "Maybe you're right, let's go $45 and split the difference, call it $42,500 and claim a savings." "Pass the brandi and everyone out to the smoking kiosk under the palm trees by the pool. Maybe we can hit 50 in our hot girl count today."

Our parents probably did the same thing and worried about the costs as well but I really have to ask the question if college will be affordable for my grandchildren. With it tough to get a job out of school, how do you pay back these astronomical loans that are out there? I feel lucky, my oldest who will graduate in May already has a job. In her major. Talk about abnormal.

Both my girls looked at SLU while deciding on college and neither chose it. I was both sad and happy. I'd love to have them at my alma mater (I certainly would get back more often than I do now) but the thought of the costs scare the shat out of me.

[DoctorB]

yes, I read that yesterday. thanks for the reminder that I will not see a raise until at least summer of 2010. SLU salaries are already quite low in comparison with peer institutions so this is more bad news; on the other hand I can't complain; was in El Salvador a month ago inspecting a study abroad site and I got a first hand look at how most people in the world live.

What kills me is that the idolatry of sports in America today allows two pitchers to sign with the Yankees for more money than the entire college of Arts and Sciences will see in a lifetime. O well. (spare me the arguments about how those players are "worth it")

Maybe my next raise will coincide with the raising of our team's field goal percentage.

One thing you did not mention from Fr. B's letter: there is no longer automatic refilling of positions at any level. this is a very bad development and in case alums did not know this, there is basically a hiring freeze in effect at SLU. what this means is that if a dept. loses a faculty member from retirement, moving away, death, etc., that position is no longer automatically replaced. This is a bad development in terms of SLU growing in national reputation as a research school.

Our numbers for domestic freshmen are fairly down, but some board readers might like to know that we have a bumper crop of internationals at SLU--mostly Chinese.

Merry Christmas, guys. let's make a statue out of Liberty tonight!

[Pistol]

yes, I read that yesterday. thanks for the reminder that I will not see a raise until at least summer of 2010. SLU salaries are already quite low in comparison with peer institutions so this is more bad news; on the other hand I can't complain; was in El Salvador a month ago inspecting a study abroad site and I got a first hand look at how most people in the world live.

What kills me is that the idolatry of sports in America today allows two pitchers to sign with the Yankees for more money than the entire college of Arts and Sciences will see in a lifetime. O well. (spare me the arguments about how those players are "worth it")

Maybe my next raise will coincide with the raising of our team's field goal percentage.

One thing you did not mention from Fr. B's letter: there is no longer automatic refilling of positions at any level. this is a very bad development and in case alums did not know this, there is basically a hiring freeze in effect at SLU. what this means is that if a dept. loses a faculty member from retirement, moving away, death, etc., that position is no longer automatically replaced. This is a bad development in terms of SLU growing in national reputation as a research school.

Our numbers for domestic freshmen are fairly down, but some board readers might like to know that we have a bumper crop of internationals at SLU--mostly Chinese.

Merry Christmas, guys. let's make a statue out of Liberty tonight!

It's a shame about salaries at SLU; attracting and keeping top talent on the faculty should be one of the top priorities there.

Couldn't agree more about what some of the baseball players are getting this offseason, and I think the "worth it" argument is a bubble. I wouldn't be surprised at all if salaries peak very soon in baseball. Reality has to set in soon for these guys. Owners are going to see their money disappear a lot faster when attendance is down in 2009 (oh, and it will be), TV deals aren't as lucrative (anyone check those playoff numbers? No one's watching anymore.), and corporate money starts drying up (my bank gave up its Bengals tickets and Reds box for the first time in 2008 and will not ever be replacing them). Baseball is on the fast track to disaster unless they "right size," to use some nice corporate speak, those salaries.

[Box and Won]

Our parents probably did the same thing and worried about the costs as well but I really have to ask the question if college will be affordable for my grandchildren. With it tough to get a job out of school, how do you pay back these astronomical loans that are out there?

When my daughter was born in March, I ran Vanguard's college cost calculator to see how much money I'll need to save to send her to college in 18 years. For SLU, it estimates that the projected cost will be $462,380 and that I will need to save $861/month in order to have enough saved. And that's just for one kid; if we have another, it will get even tougher.

I realize that Mizzou's revitalized football program has gotten the school more publicity, which is one of the reasons why applications there are through the roof, but perhaps another reason is because it's relatively affordable when compared to schools like SLU. The projected cost of Mizzou in 18 years is $191,545, and to pay for it, I would have to save $350/month. That's a lot more manageable.

Loans are a pain in the butt to pay off. I hope to have my MBA loans paid off in five years. By the time we pay off my wife's law school loans, however, we're going to have at least one kid in college!

[TheA_Bomb]

I feel you Box. SLU and a bunch of other private schools have a psuedo 529 program where you can buy in at the current price of tuition. Seems like a good deal given what you said. If you decide not to go to one of the schools on the list you can get the $ back somehow.

[kevinfootes]

yes, I read that yesterday. thanks for the reminder that I will not see a raise until at least summer of 2010. SLU salaries are already quite low in comparison with peer institutions so this is more bad news; on the other hand I can't complain; was in El Salvador a month ago inspecting a study abroad site and I got a first hand look at how most people in the world live.

What kills me is that the idolatry of sports in America today allows two pitchers to sign with the Yankees for more money than the entire college of Arts and Sciences will see in a lifetime. O well. (spare me the arguments about how those players are "worth it")

Maybe my next raise will coincide with the raising of our team's field goal percentage.

One thing you did not mention from Fr. B's letter: there is no longer automatic refilling of positions at any level. this is a very bad development and in case alums did not know this, there is basically a hiring freeze in effect at SLU. what this means is that if a dept. loses a faculty member from retirement, moving away, death, etc., that position is no longer automatically replaced. This is a bad development in terms of SLU growing in national reputation as a research school.

Our numbers for domestic freshmen are fairly down, but some board readers might like to know that we have a bumper crop of internationals at SLU--mostly Chinese.

Merry Christmas, guys. let's make a statue out of Liberty tonight!

Doc, have you ever seen over 50K people pay an average of $40/ticket to sit in an A&S class at SLU? Let's start complaining about Tom Hanks now too.

[kevinfootes]

Fr. Biondi S.J., just emailed me and wrote that due to the tough economic times SLU tuition will only go up 2% next year. Law School to go up 3% and Med 2%. No professors/staff will get a raise except those contractually obligated previously (sorry Dr. B.).

Just thought I'd pass this on to anyone who has to pay for this stuff.

Did you know that as a distance education student you have to pay activity fees?

I guess 2% is an improvement over the standard 7 to 8%.

It's amazing that tuition has been increased by 2-3 times the rate of inflation for at least 15 years. At a certain point private universities will either continue with 2% increases or simply price themselves out of existence.

[isotope]

I think the costs of an education is lost on the public. I am one of the tenured faculty at SLU who willing accept a very low salary in order to teach and do research. It is disheartening to work hard at my profession and have students graduating from our program making more money than me after only a couple of years after their graduation. I know for a fact that my worth on the open market is two and a half times what I make at SLU right now. So why stay? Because I value education. Why not go to some public and private high schools in St. Louis where I would be paid more money than I am currently paid at SLU? I ask myself that question often.

So yes, I can understand the angst of college tuition. What bothers me is that students don't invest themselves in their education. Each lecture hour is worth approximately $50 to $70, yet students skip class all the time. If my lectures are not worth attending, then shame on me. If they add value to the education, then shame on the student.

Well... sorry. Enough of my rant. Just one thing. My bet is that the cost of a student's education at public institutions is higher than private institutions due to inefficiencies in their system, but the cost is shared by the taxpayer. This would be an interesting topic to investigate sometime.

[isotope]

I think the costs of an education is lost on the public. I am one of the tenured faculty at SLU who willing accept a very low salary in order to teach and do research. It is disheartening to work hard at my profession and have students graduating from our program making more money than me after only a couple of years after their graduation. I know for a fact that my worth on the open market is two and a half times what I make at SLU right now. So why stay? Because I value education. Why not go to some public and private high schools in St. Louis where I would be paid more money than I am currently paid at SLU? I ask myself that question often.

So yes, I can understand the angst of college tuition. What bothers me is that students don't invest themselves in their education. Each lecture hour is worth approximately $50 to $70, yet students skip class all the time. If my lectures are not worth attending, then shame on me. If they add value to the education, then shame on the student.

Well... sorry. Enough of my rant. Just one thing. My bet is that the cost of a student's education at public institutions is higher than private institutions due to inefficiencies in their system, but the cost is shared by the taxpayer. This would be an interesting topic to investigate sometime.

Ouch. I should have proofread. "I think the costs of an education are...." Shame on me.

[MusicCityBilliken]

Ouch. I should have proofread. "I think the costs of an education are...." Shame on me.

Isotope, if you can catch the mistake within about 20 minutes (never timed it) of posting, use the edit function. It is located by the reply and quote function.

After that, know will even know you made a mistake

[isotope]

Isotope, if you can catch the mistake within about 20 minutes (never timed it) of posting, use the edit function. It is located by the reply and quote function.

After that, know will even know you made a mistake

Thanks, I appreciate you helping me out.

[slufanskip]

Doc, have you ever seen over 50K people pay an average of $40/ticket to sit in an A&S class at SLU? Let's start complaining about Tom Hanks now too.

I believe that statement makes his point. It is ridiculous how we as a culture idolize sports figures. Our economy is in the hole, but we can still afford to pay ballplayers 20 mil a year, or movie stars 20 mil a picture. How about building billion dollar stadiums partially funded with tax payers money.

As someone who doesn't have a college degree, (my parents couldn't afford it, but I hated school and no doubt, wouldn't have went anyway) education is one thing that needs to be more affordable for everyone, especially those who've worked hard and done well. We as a country need to support programs that help young people get a higher education. First though, we need to revamp our 1-12 school system, so that the people going to college have the foundation to take advantage of what's being taught. Over the last few years, I've interviewed hundreds of college educated young people for jobs (some with masters) and it's amazing to read their resume's and listen to them speak.

It's also silly what the cost of an education is in this country, and what's even sadder is the level of it. It

[Taj79]

What freaking idiot is going to pay Texiera $195 million for 8 years? The top row seats at the Verizon center in DC cost $40; wonder what the courtside seats cost? And when was the last time the Wizards/Bullets were relevant? A friend took me to a Ravens game, he has club seats. I offered to pay for my ticket. He told me I coudln't afford it. It was like $280 to $300 for the game. Over and above what he pays for his PSL.

I have been saying for years that pro sports has to have a crash. But it never happens. Crap like the Grizzlies move to Memphis and crap like the Sonics find some idiot city that plays to the "civic pride" angle and woo them in to become the Thunder. At leats the Arena League folded. What passes for the old MISL should be next. A couple of NBA teams should fold, so too should some NHL teams, if that matters.

With less disposal income to go around, and a tougher economy, it can't continue, can it? Personally, I think CC and AJ should throw no-hitters each time out and never lose a game for that money. Corporate tax loopholes should be eliminated for corporate boxes and stadium naming rights. of course, I guess that idea also smacks guys like Dr. Chafeitz in the kisser as well.

Like I said, for years, it can't continue. But it does and it likely will. Barmaids get paid better to swap out empty 12-ounce Bud bottles better than our elementary school teachers do. And that I have on first hand evidence with my wife. It's okay though --- all our children will either hit the litigious lottery or make the grade on a million-dollar reality show. All of us "Survivor Laclede Town" types get nothing -- not even royalties.

Okay, I'm nearer the edge now. Back away.

[brianstl]

It sucks that the professors at SLU will not be getting a raise, but it is the same thing at almost every college right now. It is, also, true that when you go into education that you know right away that you will not be making the same kind of money you might make on the open market. It is a trade off for job security.

Nobody is receiving raises out there right now. Thousands of job has been lost locally. Many others, like myself, are facing the very real threat of not having a job in the next few months.

Are baseball athletes overpaid? Yes. It is strange that they are the ones that get hate from people. You rarely hear anyone complaining that actors, musicians, and other entertainers are overpaid.

[slufanskip]

It sucks that the professors at SLU will not be getting a raise, but it is the same thing at almost every college right now. It is, also, true that when you go into education that you know right away that you will not be making the same kind of money you might make on the open market. It is a trade off for job security.

Nobody is receiving raises out there right now. Thousands of job has been lost locally. Many others, like myself, are facing the very real threat of not having a job in the next few months.

Are baseball athletes overpaid? Yes. It is strange that they are the ones that get hate from people. You rarely hear anyone complaining that actors, musicians, and other entertainers are overpaid.

I just did and the movie stars are the worst with their liberal attitudes, while still expecting to be paid so much money the average person can rarely go to the movies and the poor can't.

[brianstl]

I just did.

You sure did Skip.

[slufanskip]

You sure did Skip.

Thanks for the recognition

[kevinfootes]

I believe that statement makes his point. It is ridiculous how we as a culture idolize sports figures. Our economy is in the hole, but we can still afford to pay ballplayers 20 mil a year, or movie stars 20 mil a picture. How about building billion dollar stadiums partially funded with tax payers money.

Money talks, skip. You're starting to sound like postcard now!

[DoctorB]

I have been out of the loop a while and wanted to comment on this important thread, resurrect it a bit, so to speak.

I was challenged by a few folks about stars being "worth" the millions, and certainly worth much more than English professors.

I want to say emphatically that millionaire ball players are not worth the millions, not in my view. Not when many are hungry and jobless, period. Value and "worth" are concepts that we need to think a bit more clearly about. The fact that people would cite the money that these stars generate as evidence that they are worth it, really misses the point. This argument is based on a simple capitalistic fraud, that says that supply and demand are the basics for any ethics about any commodity. Total nonsense, in my view. And watch out: According to such an ethic, child pornography, sweat shop slavery in Asia for Walmart, arms dealing, and even crack cocaine distribution (even though illegal at the moment) might be considered ethical.

Our values and priorities are so far out of whack in America that we buy into this rhetoric without really thinking about it. Sabathia is "worth" $160 million as long as the Yankees can generate revenue to pay for him. Jim Carrey or Brad Pitt are "worth" 25 million a picture as long as the film generates $200 million. Madonna and Paul McCartney generate $2 million a concert, but they are "worth" it. Meanwhile, massive and systemic poverty and underpayment of other worthy areas gets worse and worse. Decisions about what is "worth" what must be about more than the bottom line. Certainly our recent financial meltdown makes this very clear.

When salaries are determined to be ethical according to how much money is generated, then we need to rethink our cultural values, is all I'm saying. Our culture is deeply broken and in need of reevaluation in this area, but of course it ain't gonna happen. Not without a massive worldwide depression (which is not inconceivable).

Honestly, I did not buy season tickets this year because as a SLU faculty member getting no incentive over the general public, I felt that $700 bucks was just too much. so I squeeze friends for unused tickets, or walk up and buy one of the cheapies at $12 when I feel like going. I love and support the team as much as anyone, but in tough times it just feels like too much $$$. I go to less movies than in the past, and hardly ever pay to see the Cardinals. Never have bought a Rams ticket. And those Springsteen concert tickets for $200 a pop? forget about it -- I pay $30 a ticket on occasion to see excellent bands at the Sheldon or at the Pageant, or else just head down to 1860s or BB's for some gumbo. On the contrary, I do make it a priority to give a fair amount of our available income to charities and that sort of thing.