Jeremy Felton

[STL Hoops Insider]

I'ver disagreed long and hard on your assessment of the local talent --- not the individuals, but in the statement that, "St. Louis is a big enough city with enough talent ......" Such a statement goes contrary to the national assessments of St. Louis as a hoops talent hotbed. Its just not that good enough year after year to compete with not ony the talent beds of NYC, DC, Memphis, Houston, LA, Chicago, Detroit and others, but it even fails in comparison with lesser cities like Cincinnati, Louisville, Indianapolis, Milwaukee, Seattle and then some. I'm not saying each of those is a lesser or greater city, its just that more consistent talent has been proven to come out of those places far and above the level produced by St. Louis. I've read that in enough places to believe it, frankly. The list of St. Louis kids playing major college ball and contributing is extremely low in my opinion. It may not be right or correct, but when I think of hoop hotbeds, St. Louis has never come to mind.

I understand Lowery and Martin getting kids, I think a lot of kids want to get away and both Carbondale and Springfield are not that far away in those terms. It works out well. And both arugable have a better recent record than we do. And both play in a conference that the local recruits know and have heard of. I'd argue more in St. Louis know where to find Wichita State and know what their mascot is over and above where St. Bonaventure is and who the heck they are. This is an old, unwinnable argument so I'll drop it.

Here's the next question. Each regime has had its "golden class." Grawer had Gray, Douglas and Bonner. Then he got Claggs, Hmark, and Winfield. Spoon played that out and then got Hughes, Baniak, and Tatum. Brad got Lisch, Liddell, Polk and Meyer. Now Majerus has rung in with at least John and Thompson from this area. We all know how the first ones played out. Not too well in the consistent long run. What does Majerus follow up with? Does he beat the past records and continue upward. Or is it one and done here as well? In your list of players (much appreciated by the way, I like watching what happens with your insights), I don't see anyone in there (sans Anderson mayber) who might be a legit prospect. Remember --- I don't live there so I don't know the enitre inside out on these guys. But I haven't heard anyone mentioned by name like I have in the past --- Roundtree, Booker, John, Suggs, Griffey, Hansborough, Miles, Hughes, McKinney, kern, etc, etc.

I think Majerus can see the diamond in the rough. If he's going for none of these guys as our targets, well, in Rick I trust, I guess.

2008 was a GREAT,class nearly 20 D1 players in total, 2009 takes a significant dip, but 2010 and 2011 are LOADED. 2011 already has a big-time national recruit and there are two players in his class that I think are on par with him right now, if not better. Those players are Shaq Boga and Ben McLemore. If Boga was 6'2 instead of sub 6'0 he would definitely be a national recruit, the lefty can flat out fill it up from the pg position and could surpass his older brother Lonnie, a D1 prospect for the scoring lead this year. Ben McLemore is a 6'4 guard that can flat out play. He made the Eagles this year, but left them to play with old AAU team the Majestics. He definitely would've blown up had he stayed with the Eagles. I believe SLU has already offered Scheer in 2010 and I think that Kevin Dwyer should get an offer before the year is over. I think Scheer and Dwyer both fit his system as well. Highly skilled, intelligent players with good size for their position. And although Saint Louis is not what you call a hotbed, as of late there are more local websites covering the hoops scene and getting guys names out there, not just mine. We are hearing about guys earlier than we ever have before. Its not that the talent is so much better , its more exposure.

[cheeseman]

I did answer your question. I'm not saying take local kids for the sake of taking local kids. I'm saying recruit the top talents in your area. Its not going to limit you as a program. Its easier for a smaller program like SLU to get local recruits than national recruits. Saint Louis is a big enough city with enough talent to build a consistent winner with homegrown guys. Consistently getting the top local guys and sprinkling in an a couple of out of area guys will allow the Billikens to move forward. If SLU could just go out of area and pick and choose who they wanted to make the tournament every year I wouldn't have a problem with them doing so, but they can't and no one outside of a power conference can. Cuonzo Martin, a proven national recruiter has been at Missouri State for less than 6 months and already has 3 Saint Louis area commits. Chris Lowery at SIU has 3 Saint Louis area guys on his roster now and already has a 2009 commitment from the area. There is plenty of talent already here and SLU gets the first chance to see it by proximity and no other D1's in the city.

Please refresh my memory - who are the 3 local recruits that Martin has gotten?

[STL Hoops Insider]

Please refresh my memory - who are the 3 local recruits that Martin has gotten?

Derron Hobbs 6'0 pg (Gateway Tech) c/o 2008, Jerome Jones 6'6 combo forward (Career Academy) c/o 2009 and this past week Keith Pickens 6'4 wing (Oakville HS) c/o 2009.

[brianstl]

No doubt TL has flaws in his game -- loose with the ball, average on defense -- but if he didn't he wouldn't be at SLU. Ironically, even after four years under Majerus, Keith Van Horn wasn't even an average defender.

TL III doesn't have the offensive game that Van Horn had. Van Horn finished his college days with 2,000+ points and 1,000+ rebounds. Van Horn averaged 18.3, 21, 21.4, and 22 ppg over his career. Van Horn was the second player picked overall in the draft. Van Horn was a 3 time all-american. Van Horn was two years younger when he graduated college than TL will be. Van Horn was one of the players that Rickma rode the hardest at Utah. We don't need to ever compare TL III to Van Horn.

[3star_recruit]

TL III doesn't have the offensive game that Van Horn had. Van Horn finished his college days with 2,000+ points and 1,000+ rebounds. Van Horn averaged 18.3, 21, 21.4, and 22 ppg over his career. Van Horn was the second player picked overall in the draft. Van Horn was a 3 time all-american. Van Horn was two years younger when he graduated college than TL will be. Van Horn was one of the players that Rickma rode the hardest at Utah.

And no amount of riding was going to turn Van Horn into a good defender. You have to want to be a good defender. But thanks for the google recap.

[brianstl]

And no amount of riding was going to turn Van Horn into a good defender. You have to want to be a good defender. But thanks for the google recap.

A google recap is all you need to know to see that Tommie and Van Horn are not comparable players and are not comparable situations. Van Horn didn't need to be a average defender to be the one of the best players in the country. Tommie is not even the best player on his team. To make himself a prospect at the next level he needs to be a very good defender. He doesn't have the offensive skills to overcome it. He has the athletic ability to be an outstanding defensive player. Is he a good offensive player? Yes, but he isn't an elite offensive player and doesn't have the kind of skills to be. He does a lot of things well, but he doesn't dominate at anyone aspect of the game and he doesn't have a killer instinct. Tommie needs to put more effort in on the defensive end if he ever wants to get a sniff at the NBA and letting him get away with stuff is only doing the kid a disservice.

[Cowboy]

i would buy into the vtime lovefest if he would stop saying players got lots of D1 offers out of juco or he has 10 D1 offers and instead said he has offers from the acc or the big 10 or mvc or ovc or atlantic sun or swac

they are all D1 but there is a HUGE gap in between

[Guest BillikenReport]

nate you love to take my words and create visions that arent true. you have done it over and over. when you want to call a truce i would be happy to give when you do.

You've called me a liar repeatedly on this site, with no proof. That is slander.

Please provide examples and proof that I lied. Your Royvisionist history doesn't count.

You want a truce? How about you admit here how you've repeatedly falsely accused me of lying on this message board and stop slandering me?

[billiken_roy]

You've called me a liar repeatedly on this site, with no proof. That is slander.

Please provide examples and proof that I lied. Your Royvisionist history doesn't count.

You want a truce? How about you admit here how you've repeatedly falsely accused me of lying on this message board and stop slandering me?

well you arent getting that because you have and you know it. between the kevin lisch stuff, roundtree, daniel lisch, soderberg slams, harrelson (see above) you know as well as i that your views were not gospel.

i made an effort. so be it.

[Majerus Magic]

well you arent getting that because you have and you know it. between the kevin lisch stuff, roundtree, daniel lisch, soderberg slams, harrelson (see above) you know as well as i that your views were not gospel.

i made an effort. so be it.

Roy, what has Nate lied about? All you are saying is that because you don't believe Nate, he must have lied.

Kevin Lisch stuff- please refresh my memory?

Roundtree- You think that there was no way Brad could offer him a scholarship. That clearly wasn't the case. If Brad wanted to offer, he could have.

Daniel Lisch- You have an affinity for the Lisch Family. There is no way that Daniel Lisch is a legitimate Division 1 player. Even if he were, that doesn't automatically mean that he should have been on the All Metro team.

Soderberg slams- Just because Nate slammed Soderberg ( if you really want to use those terms) doesn't mean it was a lie.

Harrellson- Harrellson had told me the same thing as Nate. Trust me, Harrellson had no reason to life to me.

[Clock_Tower]

I think you're confusing message board rumors and parroting of Frank C.'s optimism on his radio show with facts. Harrellson never made a public statement that we were the favorite.

Same deal as above.

That may be true but that doesn't mean he was ever leaning toward us. That was just the prevailing hope on this board.

Your post is a public statement. A kid being quoted by the local paper is a public statement. They can be attributed directly to the person in question. Hearsay cannot.

Eh? The leading rebounding guard in the nation and the guy who got hammered repeatedly on his drives to the lane is too "soft?"

We are talking about the same coach who TL respected enough to allow him to reconstruct his jump shot. Who played the 4 without complaint because his coach needed him there. Maybe Brad did let some stuff slide (again, hearsay) but he also demands a lot from his stars.

No doubt TL has flaws in his game -- loose with the ball, average on defense -- but if he didn't he wouldn't be at SLU. Ironically, even after four years under Majerus, Keith Van Horn wasn't even an average defender.

3 Star. Please answer the question. What do you mean by public statements? Also, please point me to the public statements made by BT, WR and FJ that they were coming to SLU prior to RM.

Second, I am not referring to message board gossip. Instead, certain recruiting services, certain journalists such as Frank C, Earl Austin and Rammer and certain posters such as yourself, Nate, PDiddy, Broy (not intending to leave others out) and others often hear things directly from a kid, the kid's coach, the kid's parent. You may call this hearsay, but alot of this information is correct. Depending upon the source, some info of course is incorrect and taken out of context. Other info can be correct; however, kids, coaches and parents often state something one day and then change their minds the next day because they are confused, they are pressured, they simply change their minds and/or a new school emerges which changes everything. If we are to dismiss such talk and only rely upon Verbal Committments and/or signed LOI's then I believe your definition of "public statement" is too narrow and that you are missing the points in this thread.

As a reminder, the comment was made to marginalize the efforts and accomplishments of RM while elevation the efforts of Brad. If we are to believe that Brad is responsible for BT, WR and FJ, then please provide those public statements as well. Two (2) street: no public statement are needed for players who enroll at SLU (we assume they were coming to SLU anyway and the head coach is not important) while guys we lost to other programs (we assume were not interested in SLU) because they did not hold a press conference or verbally commit and any and info about them is simply Internet Board rumors and wild fan speculation.

Third, not trying to offend you or TL; however, I stand by my comments.

[Guest BillikenReport]

well you arent getting that because you have and you know it. between the kevin lisch stuff, roundtree, daniel lisch, soderberg slams, harrelson (see above) you know as well as i that your views were not gospel.

How are those lies?

Kevin Lisch wasn't the P-D player of the year but you can't get over it, even four years later. You claimed Soderberg couldn't offer Torres Roundtree a scholarship, even though Soderberg offered Roundtree's classmate, Femi John. Daniel Lisch was THIRD TEAM in his own conference, yet you claim he should have been all-metro. I said Soderberg should be recruiting players like Josh Harrellson and Paul Eckerle and you bashed me for it. Hmm. Who was right there?

Just because you lose most of arguments doesn't make me a liar.

[moytoy12]

Man, nothing like a little recruiting news to get the board stirring. It's good to see.

[3star_recruit]

3 Star. Please answer the question. What do you mean by public statements?

I already made the distinction between public statement directly from the kid and hearsay in my previous post. I don't know what else you want me to do.

Also, please point me to the public statements made by BT, WR and FJ that they were coming to SLU prior to RM.

The archives at the Southern Illinoisan are pay only and the KSDK archives don't go back that far so I'm afraid I can't oblige. Sorry.

[mcglotherirvin]

haven't seen the latter two play. hobbs could not play at slu from what i've seen. out of control, not a great ball handler, and not a great shooter. i'm surprised msu wanted him

Derron Hobbs 6'0 pg (Gateway Tech) c/o 2008, Jerome Jones 6'6 combo forward (Career Academy) c/o 2009 and this past week Keith Pickens 6'4 wing (Oakville HS) c/o 2009.

[Clock_Tower]

I already made the distinction between public statement directly from the kid and hearsay in my previous post. I don't know what else you want me to do.

The archives at the Southern Illinoisan are pay only and the KSDK archives don't go back that far so I'm afraid I can't oblige. Sorry.

3Star. Just so I'm clear, you are saying that FJ, BT and WR made "public statments" in local papers that they are accepting a scholarship and are going to SLU while Brad was still the coach - prior to RM being hired as the coach? I don't recall these three (3) kids, or any 3 kids, giving Brad a verbal commitment.

[STL Hoops Insider]

haven't seen the latter two play. hobbs could not play at slu from what i've seen. out of control, not a great ball handler, and not a great shooter. i'm surprised msu wanted him

Hobbs can really shoot and has great speed and is also a very good on-ball defender. Here is some footage of Jerome Jones from this summer

[billiken_roy]

Roy, what has Nate lied about? All you are saying is that because you don't believe Nate, he must have lied........

........Harrellson- Harrellson had told me the same thing as Nate. Trust me, Harrellson had no reason to life to me.

magic, if harrellson didnt lie to you, then why isnt he a billiken now?

as to what nate lied about, nate knows his arguments that i took exception with were his opinions more than fact or he chose to only tell part of the story to protect his sources. i am not going to go into all of them because the board doesnt need to go back through all that again.

i offered to give nate a chance to bury the hatchet he doesnt want to. so be it.

[Guest BillikenReport]

as to what nate lied about, nate knows his arguments that i took exception with were his opinions more than fact or he chose to only tell part of the story to protect his sources. i am not going to go into all of them because the board doesnt need to go back through all that again.

i offered to give nate a chance to bury the hatchet he doesnt want to. so be it.

You're the one who keeps claiming on this board I have lied. I haven't lied. That is called slander.

You continue to slander me, yet want to bury the hatchet? You should consider yourself lucky I shook your hand at the Chaifetz dedication because I didn't realize it was you. If I had, I can guarantee things would have gone differently.

Funny how you can call me a liar on this board, but not to my face.

[Guest BillikenReport]

haven't seen the latter two play. hobbs could not play at slu from what i've seen. out of control, not a great ball handler, and not a great shooter. i'm surprised msu wanted him

SLU looked at Hobbs, Jones and Pickens, but chose not to offer. Jones was interested in SLU and was hoping for an offer, but didn't receive one.

Outside of Tyler Griffey and Bryant Allen, there might not be any other area players in the class of 2009 that SLU is really interested in. There are guys who could earn scholarships later, like Kyle Cassity did a year ago, but the general feeling is there is a dropoff in talent after Griffey and Allen, who will end up at Big Ten/Big 12-type schools.

[billiken_roy]

You're the one who keeps claiming on this board I have lied. I haven't lied. That is called slander.

You continue to slander me, yet want to bury the hatchet? You should consider yourself lucky I shook your hand at the Chaifetz dedication because I didn't realize it was you. If I had, I can guarantee things would have gone differently.

Funny how you can call me a liar on this board, but not to my face.

oh this post takes the cake.

you lied in this thread. you said i was the only one that was questioning harrelson's story. a number of posters did.

you make the chaifetz statement where i approached you and stuck out my hand, and then follow it up with i wont face you in person?

i understand as well that twice when our billikens.com group has met for lunch you have been asked to attend but declined when you knew i would be there even though i told the inviter that i had absolutely no problem with you joining the discussion.

you have a problem.

[Guest BillikenReport]

you have a problem.

Yes, I have a man from Belleville who slanders me on a message board.

[tenthyearsenior]

magic, if harrellson didnt lie to you, then why isnt he a billiken now?

as to what nate lied about, nate knows his arguments that i took exception with were his opinions more than fact or he chose to only tell part of the story to protect his sources. i am not going to go into all of them because the board doesnt need to go back through all that again.

i offered to give nate a chance to bury the hatchet he doesnt want to. so be it.

Roy, how come you always start ###### with people, spread lies then try and act like the bigger man by offering to bury the hatchet? Am I the only one who sees a pattern here?

[billiken_roy]

Roy, how come you always start ###### with people, spread lies then try and act like the bigger man by offering to bury the hatchet? Am I the only one who sees a pattern here?

what lies? nate is the one that lied.

[saluki762]

A little off-topic from the Roy vs. Nate battle but SIU finished off their 2009 recruiting class just days after the Felton commitment with a verbal commit from 6'6" SG Drew Barham out of Christian Brothers High School in Memphis.

http://www.thesouthern.com/dawgblog/